Fire Blast and Kinetics: Corruptor or Defender?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Hi all

I've been thinking of pairing Fire Blast with Kinetics for a while now and can't decide which AT to do it on.

Corruptor:
Positives: Higher Damage cap, Scourge.
Negatives: Longer to get key Kinetics powers, no endurance help on teams.

Defender:
Postitives: Endurance reduction on teams, better powers earlier.
Negatives: Lower Damage cap.

Has anyone got any experience with these builds? I'd love to hear your views.

Many thanks,

D


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Posted

This is a pretty easy one, the fire/kin corr wins out pretty big I think. The Corr negatives you list are not all that negative in the grand scheme of things. Transference makes endurance discrepancies a moot point. Longer to get the Kin powers? Very true, but when you get to iTrials and level 50 tfs, it doesn't really matter when you got the powers.

Also Scourging Rain of Fire is a beautiful thing.

Personally I have the corr version of this that's one of my favorite characters to play. When I play him, teammates simply exist to take some aggro off, if they happen to get FSd, good for them.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon_NA View Post
Also Scourging Rain of Fire is a beautiful thing.
This is getting fixed in I24 so RoF does the correct damage for a Corruptor and only does double damage on scourge instead of triple. It's still nice though.


 

Posted

You pretty much listed all the pros and cons already. Corruptors are much better once they get rolling. Defenders get rolling sooner and more easily.


 

Posted

It really all comes down to this: how often are you going to exemp below level 33?

Because once both have Fulcrum Shift, it's not really a comparison.


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Posted

The fender will be easier to build for def..assuming you are going to. Def scorpion shield is awesome. And they get better tough and weave values (I think). But scourge is sexy.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siolfir View Post
It really all comes down to this: how often are you going to exemp below level 33?

Because once both have Fulcrum Shift, it's not really a comparison.
this.

Corruptor.

might be worth noting, if you play on smaller teams often, defender takes fewer targets to cap dmg.


 

Posted

It wasn't long ago where someone pointed out how this isn't even close: corruptor will always be best with this combo. Defender's got weakened versions of fire blast on top of their archetype difference, for example.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante View Post
Hi all

I've been thinking of pairing Fire Blast with Kinetics for a while now and can't decide which AT to do it on.

Corruptor:
Positives: Higher Damage cap, Scourge.
Negatives: Longer to get key Kinetics powers, no endurance help on teams.

Defender:
Postitives: Endurance reduction on teams, better powers earlier.
Negatives: Lower Damage cap.

Has anyone got any experience with these builds? I'd love to hear your views.

Many thanks,

D
I leveled lately a Kin/Water Defender (which is actually close to /fire, maybe abit better for a defender) and I was: FRUSTRADED.

1- Endurance reduction is pointless when you have Transferance.
2- Kintetics is one of the LEAST scalling support type on defender.
3- Damage cap is a huge matter when you have fulcrum shift.
4- The bonus on defender secondary (more -res on sonic, more -def on rad...) is completely useless on Fire.
5- You will get Fulcrum Shift earlier as a Fender, so yeah, you will shine for a whole 6 levels, yay.


Seriously, I will NEVER (never again, sadly its my second...) go for Kin on a Fender (both Corr and Trollers are very valid) unless I want a SuperPimpMyDamage Kin/Sonic.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayboH View Post
It wasn't long ago where someone pointed out how this isn't even close: corruptor will always be best with this combo. Defender's got weakened versions of fire blast on top of their archetype difference, for example.
Could you elaborate on this? I've heard this before, but outside of fire blast (the actually power itself) being 1.67s and subsequently fixed, I haven't seen any special reason why fire blast is a weaker set for defenders.


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Posted

I love my kinetics defender because it's better on melee-centric teams that clear mobs quickly. You can clear a group of Romans in one cast (250 percent damage boost on one cast instead of 200) even if you don't stand in the middle for the caster buff (50 for defenders, 40 for corruptors). The larger heal doesn't hurt either.

If there are tasks that keep you from reaching your level 38 power, defenders are better. Fulcrum shift is that important. The Summer Blockbuster event kept players from powers past their level 32 choice and FS is glorious in it.

So basically: Operative Renault TF in Sharkhead, Citadel in Talos Island, Summer Blockbuster and exemping down to help friends in Tip/Morality missions in the high 20s/low 30s is the only place I can see a teamed defender being better than a corruptor.

I almost always go corruptor unless I fully play into the support set (I almost deleted my Empath until I completely devoted the toon to teamplay, leadership, recall friend, etc., and now I really like it).


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Posted

One could consider that while all secondary effets on the blast are increased on defenders, the one on fire (damage over time) isnt.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rejolt View Post
I love my kinetics defender because it's better on melee-centric teams that clear mobs quickly. You can clear a group of Romans in one cast (250 percent damage boost on one cast instead of 200) even if you don't stand in the middle for the caster buff (50 for defenders, 40 for corruptors). The larger heal doesn't hurt either.

If there are tasks that keep you from reaching your level 38 power, defenders are better. Fulcrum shift is that important. The Summer Blockbuster event kept players from powers past their level 32 choice and FS is glorious in it.

So basically: Operative Renault TF in Sharkhead, Citadel in Talos Island, Summer Blockbuster and exemping down to help friends in Tip/Morality missions in the high 20s/low 30s is the only place I can see a teamed defender being better than a corruptor.

I almost always go corruptor unless I fully play into the support set (I almost deleted my Empath until I completely devoted the toon to teamplay, leadership, recall friend, etc., and now I really like it).
For some concept or lazyness reason you could consider that you will ONLY play the kinetic set. Hey, most team will still be very happy to have you. But you have to admit if you bring damage or control on the table it is better. And if you want damage you go Corruptor.


 

Posted

I went corruptor. The kin values for defenders just didn't seem to make up for the extra damage corruptors got.


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Posted

I am a dyed in the wool defender proponent, but scourge on rain of fire/fire breath DoT, no question, go corruptor.


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Posted

Heh, I think that vote is almost unanimous, Corruptor it is.

I failed to mention that I have and love my Kinetics/Sonic and Kinetics/Ice Defender but that my Dark/Kinetic Corruptor failed to impress me. However, Scourging Rain of Fire sounds like too good a treat to miss.

Thanks everyone for your help.


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Posted

As another Defender enthusiast, I would also roll Corruptor.

But beware, come I24 Rain of Fire is going to get a "double whammy" fix.. That is, it will no longer do Blaster level damage, and it will no longer do triple scourge.

This closes the gap some, but with Corruptor's higher damage cap coupled with their higher damage scalar they will still deal a hefty amount more damage than the Defender.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangler View Post
Could you elaborate on this? I've heard this before, but outside of fire blast (the actually power itself) being 1.67s and subsequently fixed, I haven't seen any special reason why fire blast is a weaker set for defenders.
Rain of Fire is "WAI" for Defenders, Corruptors have the Blaster version.. for now.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgar View Post
I went corruptor. The kin values for defenders just didn't seem to make up for the extra damage corruptors got.
This sounds just like me in Issue 5 (pre-City of Villains and Corruptors) about Controllers over Defenders...


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rejolt View Post
This sounds just like me in Issue 5 (pre-City of Villains and Corruptors) about Controllers over Defenders...
Yeah, Defenders need something.
Wish they had a damage buff dependent on teammate status...IE if you are buffing well, you get an incremental +ToHit/+Damage, or debuffing well, to reward non-HEALZOR play.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuronia View Post
Yeah, Defenders need something.
How abooouuut...

Tanker-strength mods for self-Defense/Resistance powers
Dominator-strength mods for Controls
Self +ToHit/+Damage mods second only to Blasters and Scrappers
25%-33% stronger Ally Buffs and Foe Debuffs.
14% stronger Ally Heals

Meanwhile, Corruptors have:
Tiny bit more HP
Scourge
About 15% more damage without Scourge

So I mean...

>_>

Fire/Kinetics is better on a Corruptor, yes, but it's really a special case. You take an AT with a higher damage cap, give them a powerset that lets them hit that damage cap, and then give them an attack set with a secondary effect that Defenders can't be better at and well... you create a situation where the choice is easy to make.

The opposite would probably be... Rad/Sonic Defender? Better -Res and +Damage from both sets for the Defender.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trickshooter View Post
Self +ToHit/+Damage mods second only to Blasters and Scrappers
That +tohit makes no sense to me. I get the damage but even that is questionable - due to lower damage base and lower caps, why should this be true? I assume this doesn't carry over to +tohit and +damage buffs to allies, but still, it's something to think about.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuronia View Post
Yeah, Defenders need something.
I disagree, at least compared to corruptors. Kinetics is a superior set for corruptors, but there are other sets where this is not the case.

They have issues compared to controllers, but upcoming blast set changes will address that to some extent.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garent View Post
I disagree, at least compared to corruptors. Kinetics is a superior set for corruptors, but there are other sets where this is not the case.

They have issues compared to controllers, but upcoming blast set changes will address that to some extent.
Agreed. The problem with Kinetics/Fire Defenders compared to Fire/Kinetics Corruptors has nothing to do with the strength of Kinetics scaling between AT's. It's almost entirely the product of both sets being almost tailor made to cater to the specific advantages of the Corruptor AT, except where those sets are almost tailor made to take advantage of the disadvantages of the Defender AT.

Huge damage buff to approach or hit your damage cap? Check. DoT powers to Scourge most efficiently? Check. Lack of any *ACTUAL* secondary effect of the blasts for Defender AT mods to boost? Check.

I won't say there are no issues with AT balance between Corruptors and Defenders, because I haven't closely examined the issue. Using Fire Blast and Kinetics as the two sets to use as a baseline to argue that there is, however, is a terrible idea. Some sets are better on one AT even though they are available on several. This combo just happens to use two of them that both favor Corruptors.


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