Hypothetical: Ranged tank or Armoured Blaster?
Two words.
Crab Spiders.
Supposing a new AT was added pairing (existing) ranged Blast/Assault* sets and armour sets, would you prefer:
1) Near blaster level damage, weaker-than-scrapper defense and resistance values, low max hp? 2) Tanker level damage, between brute and tanker levels of def/res and max hp, taunt on attacks? 3) Switch inherent: Tanker level damage, scrapper level defences, inherent granting assault mode (+Dmg) and defense mode (+Max HP, adds taunt to attacks)? *I'm thinking Assault sets are more likely than Blast sets, since they give less access to AoE and should alleviate some balance concerns. But it doesn't matter for the sake of the descussion. |
-Female Player-
None of the above. Between Corruptor and Blaster level damage and scrapper level defenses and health. And actual blast sets, not assault.
Crabs have more than that and they haven't destroyed the game yet.
I'd pick number two, but I primarily look for sturdiness in a character.
In any case, my chief concern would be that the AT had adequate mez protection. The lack of it is a large part of what has made my Peacebringer frustrating to play (endurance problems being the next largest issue).
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
None of the above. Between Corruptor and Blaster level damage and scrapper level defenses and health. And actual blast sets, not assault.
Crabs have more than that and they haven't destroyed the game yet. |
2) Whilst Crabs get better values for def and res than scrappers, they don't have a compete defense set, making up for weaknesses with pool powers and IOs. And even with them, they can't get DDR, a god mode, damage aura, and the other things that come with full defense sets. And Serum doesn't make up for lower max HP, since equivalent powers are available in defence sets (e.g. Dull Pain).
3) Crabs lack the ST ranged attack chain that true blast sets get.
I'll put you down for option 1.
I really should do something about this signature.
I'd pick number two, but I primarily look for sturdiness in a character.
In any case, my chief concern would be that the AT had adequate mez protection. The lack of it is a large part of what has made my Peacebringer frustrating to play (endurance problems being the next largest issue). |
The idea is, it's a base AT, not an EAT.
I really should do something about this signature.
Nope. Because I said Scrapper level defenses, not below Scrapper level defenses. And about midway between corruptor and blaster is not the same thing as almost blaster.
Crabs are some of the easier things to soft cap while still have a ludicrous amount of health, resistance, and mez protection. The lack of a damage aura is more than made up for by the various pets and stronger attacks. DDR is a rarity even in full defense sets. Oh, and Crabs share much of their defense with the entire team in one of the best toggles in the game.
Nope. Because I said Scrapper level defenses, not below Scrapper level defenses.
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And about midway between corruptor and blaster is not the same thing as almost blaster. |
Crabs are some of the easier things to soft cap while still have a ludicrous amount of health, resistance, and mez protection. The lack of a damage aura is more than made up for by the various pets and stronger attacks. DDR is a rarity even in full defense sets. Oh, and Crabs share much of their defense with the entire team in one of the best toggles in the game. |
Your pets and group buffs are very nice, but are irrelevant to the discussion.
But, for the point of data gathering, let me rephrase: Your options are: 1) similar to an arachnos soldier, 2) Better defensively but lower damage than an arachnos soldier (with aggro management tools), or 3) something which can switch between the two?
Oh, and which FULL defense set has no DDR?
I really should do something about this signature.
I didn't say to make its armor an exact copy of a Crab, did I? I said to make it equal to a Scrapper. I was using the Crab as proof that a tankmage wouldn't break the game.
Full defense set? SR is the only one with sizable amounts, if I recall correctly. And almost none of the resistance sets have it. Which are also armor sets, and therefore were included in my statement. As for no god mode, that also means no god mode crash. Can just use the inspirations that a dropping like candy.
I'd have to say 1, then. But with the exact same defense values as a Scrapper. And not too close to blaster damage, don't need more things encroaching on their territory.
I didn't say to make its armor an exact copy of a Crab, did I? I said to make it equal to a Scrapper.
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I was using the Crab as proof that a tankmage wouldn't break the game. |
Full defense set? SR is the only one with sizable amounts, if I recall correctly. |
All full defense sets: SR, Ice Armour, EA & Ninjitsu have DDR (only Nin, as a stalker set, is a bit light).
Of the mixed sets, Shield has loads of DDR, Invun and Stone have fair DDR.
And almost none of the resistance sets have it. |
Which are also armor sets, and therefore were included in my statement. As for no god mode, that also means no god mode crash. Can just use the inspirations that a dropping like candy.
don't need more things encroaching on their territory. |
I really should do something about this signature.
I really want a support/melee or melee/support AT. A balance between blaster secondaries or dominator secondaries with the support sets.
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Kheldians get;
-Godmodes
-Mixture of AoE and ST attacks
-+HP powers
-Recovery and Heal powers
-Basically all the stuff talked about
They already HAVE a base level for a Blast/Armour or Assault/Armour AT. There is NO good reason to not have one in game (no, screaming 'Tankmage!' doesn't cut it. Again, EATs. Balanced. Go figure.)
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Kheldians get;
-Godmodes -Mixture of AoE and ST attacks -+HP powers -Recovery and Heal powers -Basically all the stuff talked about They already HAVE a base level for a Blast/Armour or Assault/Armour AT. There is NO good reason to not have one in game (no, screaming 'Tankmage!' doesn't cut it. Again, EATs. Balanced. Go figure.) |
But the question at hand is would you prefer a ranged tank or ranged DPS-with-armor AT, irrespective of balance.
"Similar to a keldian" would correspond to option 3.
I really should do something about this signature.
I really want a support/melee or melee/support AT. A balance between blaster secondaries or dominator secondaries with the support sets.
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Also, you will be able to make it with the Fighting pool when issue 24 goes live.
I really should do something about this signature.
Their mez protection is decidedly dodgy, so they don't get everything that would go with a defense set. And with no damage or taunt aura, and 85% res cap, they don't match a tank or maxed-out brute for survivability or agro management either. Defense sets contain more than just defense powers.
But the question at hand is would you prefer a ranged tank or ranged DPS-with-armor AT, irrespective of balance. "Similar to a keldian" would correspond to option 3. |
My khelds when in their defensive modes have no issue matching a tank or maxed-out brute for survivability.
Aggro management no, as it's not their job.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
No DDR, no god mode, no KB protection, no damage aura, lower max HP = below scrapper level defenses.
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Corruptor ranged damage modifier: .750
Blaster ranged damage modifier: 1.125
1.125 + .750 = 1.875
1.875 / 2 = .9375
For lack of a better way to put this, "midway between Blaster and Corruptor" is almost "almost Blaster." I'd wager "almost Blaster" is 1.000 scale.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Dwarf mode mez protection is dodgy? News to me since in that mode my khelds never get mezzed.
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My khelds when in their defensive modes have no issue matching a tank or maxed-out brute for survivability. |
Aggro management no, as it's not their job. |
I really should do something about this signature.
Dark Armor = No DDR, No 'God Mode', No KB Protection. Pretty close there and it still kicks enormous butt.
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Corruptor ranged damage modifier: .750 Blaster ranged damage modifier: 1.125 1.125 + .750 = 1.875 1.875 / 2 = .9375 For lack of a better way to put this, "midway between Blaster and Corruptor" is almost "almost Blaster." I'd wager "almost Blaster" is 1.000 scale. |
How about this:
Devastator:
Primary: Assault
Secondary: Defense
Range damage scale 0.9, Melee damage scale 1.0
Def/res scale as Scrapper (0.75), HP scale as stalker.
Inherent: Devastation: Attacking with primary builds Devastation Bar. When full, click button to give double damage for a time (basically the original version of Domination, without the bonus to CC).
I really should do something about this signature.
You gotta figure in scourge when comparing Corruptors and Blasters. Which makes picking a point between the two very difficult, since scourge varies in effectiveness depending on the target. 1.0 is the same as EATs, and is threfore reasonable, but I would probably go slightly lower and some sort of inherent that boosts damage in some way.
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No, in dwarf mode your damage sucks. You can have decent damage, or decent mez protection, but not both at the same time all the time.
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Slotted your Dwarf Form for resistance lately?
Aggro management is exactly the job of dwarf form. Didn't getting Taunt give you a clue? That they aren't very good at it is down to poor design.
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By the way, you might want to check your tone in your replies. You're coming off as scathing.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Using Assault/Defense is a pretty neat idea because it capitalizes on reusing existing assets, but ultimately, it falls flat because unless it has something groundbreaking in the inherent, it doesn't really do anything different from the other melee ATs available.
The issue is that the secondary -has- to change to make it interesting, but when you change it, you move away from the main advantage in creating such an AT, which is ease of conversion/creation.
There's a way around it, but that's a pretty long post that doesn't belong here, but the suggestion forum instead.
Only if you're not double-miring; if you're not doing that you're doing it wrong.
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Slotted your Dwarf Form for resistance lately? |
I really should do something about this signature.
Using Assault/Defense is a pretty neat idea because it capitalizes on reusing existing assets, but ultimately, it falls flat because unless it has something groundbreaking in the inherent, it doesn't really do anything different from the other melee ATs available.
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Retaliator
Role: tank
Primary: Defense
Secondary: Assault (but with BU or equivalent replaced with Taunt)
Ranged damage scale: 0.75, melee damage scale: 0.8
Def/Res scale: as tanker, HP scale: as Brute
Inherent: Retaliation. When attacked, retaliation bar fills. When full click button gives +100% damage buff and +25% to hit buff for a time. (yes, another reuse of Domination!)
Equaliser
Role: damage or tank
Primary: Assault
Secondary: Defense
Ranged Damage scale 0.8, Melee Damage scale 0.85
Res/Def/HP: As Brute
Inherent: Mode selection. Assault mode: gives a +DMG buff and a chance for attacks to critical (like a scrapper), and +recovery. Defense mode: Gives +100% max hp, and an AoE taunt proc on all attacks, and +regen. Mode switching has a 5 minute cooldown and is interuptable, butt cannot be detoggled.
I don't agree that anything REALLY new is needed. It's just giving people more options (and the chance to make an Iron Man clone).
I really should do something about this signature.
Supposing a new AT was added pairing (existing) ranged Blast/Assault* sets and armour sets, would you prefer:
1) Near blaster level damage, weaker-than-scrapper defense and resistance values, low max hp?
2) Tanker level damage, between brute and tanker levels of def/res and max hp, taunt on attacks?
3) Switch inherent: Tanker level damage, scrapper level defences, inherent granting assault mode (+Dmg) and defense mode (+Max HP, adds taunt to attacks)?
*I'm thinking Assault sets are more likely than Blast sets, since they give less access to AoE and should alleviate some balance concerns. But it doesn't matter for the sake of the descussion.
I really should do something about this signature.