Slate Article on Criticism


Adeon Hawkwood

 

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Being a critic isn't an excuse to throw out insults and be unnecessarily harsh. Just sayin'.


 

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Originally Posted by Xzero45 View Post
Being a critic isn't an excuse to throw out insults and be unnecessarily harsh. Just sayin'.
Indeed. There's a difference between constructive criticism and just simply being a dick.


 

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Being a critic isn't an excuse to throw out insults and be unnecessarily harsh. Just sayin'.
This is an example of Silverman's point in action. I didn't "throw out insults", but because any criticism is seen as "unnecessarily harsh" it's taken as such.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xzero45 View Post
Being a critic isn't an excuse to throw out insults and be unnecessarily harsh. Just sayin'.
basically.


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Originally Posted by mauk2 View Post
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Originally Posted by Venture View Post
This is an example of Silverman's point in action. I didn't "throw out insults", but because any criticism is seen as "unnecessarily harsh" it's taken as such.
Venture, I've seen several of your MA reviews in the past use the term "idiot ball." I would certainly classify that as an insult.

I can't say whether or not you've changed this tactic, since I stopped reading your reviews as a result of the above.


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Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
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I agree that 'niceness' really is prevalent and not at all helpful in book reviews. I find on sites such as Amazon, I will skim the three star reviews and pay most attention the two star reviews as these are most likely to contain content that actually lets me know what my experience of the book is likely to be.


 

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i read the comments available from all levels and ratings on sites like that. Lot of time, somethings I'm thinking about buying from a brick/mortar have about 20-30 reviews so I read them all. On some where there are thousands, a dozen or so from each rating that contains information, preferably detailed information, is read to get the just of it for me. But usually if I'm searching for something, I'm probably already 98% of time plan on buying it so the focus is more the information on the actual product in the case of the book, interesting plot points that may or may not be considered spoilers and not so much matter of taste.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by mauk2 View Post
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks."
I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venture View Post
This is an example of Silverman's point in action. I didn't "throw out insults", but because any criticism is seen as "unnecessarily harsh" it's taken as such.
Whatever helps you sleep at night, dude.


 

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I read the New York Review of Books and I can't think that I've seen these sorts of love-fests popping up in there. Based on what I read there, literary criticism is alive and well, but that is the only water I dip my toe into.

I guess things might be going differently with online groups though, if the article is right, certainly posting something negative online can set off the friends who feel the need to "white-knight" for the author of a work in lesser circles, such as here... I guess. Can't think I've ever really seen that here either, in regards to MA at least. Come to think of it I've seen arcs reviewed here that get the gamut of responses.


 

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If I had a dollar for every time I've seen exactly that debate held about fanfic over the years, I'd never have to buy another CoX sub in my life.


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Speaking as both an MA writer and reviewer, there are two sides to the story.

As a reviewer, you will often play a story and find some problem with it, which we'll call A. In order to provide useful feedback, you need to communicate to the author that A is a problem. There are several ways to do this. Here are a few examples:

"A is stupid."
"I really hate A."
"Only an idiot would A."
"A didn't work for me."
"I don't think A makes sense. Have you considered B?"
"A is okay, if you like that sort of thing."
"I noticed A. But you're cool, so here, five stars."
"It was the best arc ever!"

These are all messages attempting to communicate problem A to the author with varying degrees of success. It's my opinion that most authors will ignore your feedback if you phrase it too harshly ("A sucks!!") but they will ALSO ignore your feedback if you phrase it too nicely ("Your arc was the best arc ever! 5 stars! Oh yeah, also A. Though really your arc is perfect, so don't change it."). So when I was doing reviews, I tried to steer somewhere between these two extremes.

I didn't always succeed, though. Some authors are really sensitive to criticism of any sort, and will not accept any kind of criticism. Some authors ask for reviews purely as a way to get plays on their arc, and won't change their arc no matter what you say. Unfortunately, it is difficult to help these kinds of authors. Even worse, these people usually do not understand that writing a critical review of their arc *is* helping them.

As a writer, I usually try to put out as finished a product as possible when I first publish an arc -- but every arc I've written has improved A LOT due to player feedback. People running through my arc will often catch my bad ideas (Did I really think re-creating the boring Synapse TF in Mission Architect was a good idea? What was I thinking when I named the villain Panty?? A whole mission of enemies that throw caltrops, what's up with that??) and suggest brilliant new ideas. CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM IS INVALUABLE. If someone spends an hour running through your mission and offers you helpful feedback, try to stay open minded and listen to it -- even if you think the reviewer has the social skills of a bridge troll, try to read their words and understand what they are saying. It could help improve your arc.


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Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man View Post
Venture, I've seen several of your MA reviews in the past use the term "idiot ball." I would certainly classify that as an insult.
"Idiot" in this context refers to the characters, not the author.


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Originally Posted by PoliceWoman View Post
Some authors are really sensitive to criticism of any sort, and will not accept any kind of criticism.
You don't have to go all the way to whole mission arcs to see that: many people extend that to individual forum post authorship. I can't count the number of times someone has posted words to the effect "I don't like power X because it does Y" and when I reply "power X does not do Y" they respond with something like "oh, so now you are going to tell me what I like?" I have to assume that's just people taking everything they post extremely personally, because I refuse to believe there are that many illiterate people that have figured out how to operate computers in the world.

It seems lots of people have decided they have the right to express themselves, and everyone else has the responsibility to enjoy it.


But then again, I have to say when it comes to fiction, not all that many people are good at constructive criticism either. Its very difficult to comment on someone else's work in terms of how to make it better at what the author wanted to do as opposed to how to make it what you wished you wrote. The job of a critic is not to instruct the author on how to write the story that the critic is too lazy and unskilled to write themselves.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man View Post
Venture, I've seen several of your MA reviews in the past use the term "idiot ball." I would certainly classify that as an insult.
I'll admit I haven't read Venture's reviews but the term "Idiot Ball" does not mean that the author is an idiot. It means that the writing is making the character's act like idiots. While it can potentially be used as an insult (since it is generally taken as a sign of poor writing) it is also a valid criticism, especially in AE arcs where my character is the hero. Writing an arc where my character is carrying the idiot ball is not going to endear it to me (and in fact this very criticism has been leveled at several of the official story arcs in the game).

Reference:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotBall


 

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Thanks for sharing. I actually agree with a lot of the sentiment in that article, but please tell me I'm not the only one who found the 2k+ facebook 'likes' it received to be a little entertaining.


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It seems lots of people have decided they have the right to express themselves, and everyone else has the responsibility to enjoy it.
Ironically, I can't think of a single forum user who embodies this statement better than you.

You're not posting as much as branding, and your success at doing so as well as the frequency at which you post makes ignoring you nigh impossible without missing out on parts of conversations.

Your contribution to the kind of topics I like is split between vague allusions of inside knowledge or of supposed intellectual and mathematical prowess, and turning it personal with targeted, semantic nitpicks*; but while skipping your posts isn't generally a big loss (generally; you do occasionally say interesting stuff, which makes it all the more frustrating to have to wade through the rest of your @Arcanaville #routine), most people take you seriously and react to your posts, and -they- might have something insightful to say. Heck, entire threads gravitate around your posts whether they're related or not to the actual topic.

You're like an evil Werner or Hopeling. Your greatest trick was to convince the world you knew numbers with nothing but a smooth tongue.



*just had to edit and clarify this one as, if I didn't, it would likely be proven right...


 

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Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
Your greatest trick was to convince the world you knew numbers with nothing but a smooth tongue.
That's not my greatest trick. My greatest trick was to convince the devs to constantly redesign the game to exactly match my posts so it looked like I was smarter than I am. Getting a game credit for it really puts it over the top I think.

Of course, when you're as good as I am at convincing people you know far more than you actually do, the reward is worth the effort. I have no idea why you do it unless you just love trying, since there appears to be no reward for it on your end.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoliceWoman View Post
"A didn't work for me."
"I don't think A makes sense. Have you considered B?"
"A is okay, if you like that sort of thing."
This, this is what I consider to be optimal criticism.