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I didn't know there'd be a test on Friday. |
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
So someone (meaning Arcanaville) do the math.
Assume a lvl 50 IO'd but non incarnate NRG/NRG blaster a +4/x8 spawn with an average breakdown of bosses, lts, minions. all attacks hit average resistance on foes if the stealths up and starts with a nova, which, and how many attacks does it take to wipe out the spawn in i24? |
There's too many variables to give an accurate answer to that question, but a couple of points worth mentioning:
I24 Nova slotted and stacking BU and Aim deals about 429.4 damage to a +4 minion. That's a hair *less* than necessary to defeat them, so unless you pop some reds or have lingering Defiance buffs from the previous fight, or have better than +95% damage in Nova from invention slotting and invention set bonuses you'll have a ton of minions scattered all over the place with a sliver of health left. Even with broken ragdoll, that's probably not a good thing. Fortunately you only need about a percent more damage buff. Unfortunately that does not count any resistances the critters might have, and that's highly variable, particularly because Nova deals partial smashing damage.
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Right at the damage cap for even con at level 50, I24 Nova ties I23 in terms of being a guaranteed kill, but deals less damage than average on Lts and Bosses by the normal 18%. Averaged across a spawn, that means I24 Defender Nova at the damage cap will deal about 9.9% less damage than I23 Nova, still below 10% gap.|
Originally Posted by Hindenburg
Arcana care to figure for Kin Defenders?
assume capped damage and Def values. nice thread. |
The only significant difference besides that: a damage capped I23 Nova has a 37.5% chance of just barely killing an LT. I24 Nova will have no such chance. So today, about one in three Lts at even con at level 50 die to Nova. In I24, they'll be one or two hits from dying.
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Inferno is a bit tricky because of the DoT, but assuming I24 Inferno has the same DoT, at the damage cap a Corruptor should have a guaranteed kill on minions and Lts in both I23 and I24. Neither can one-shot a boss, so I24 Inferno will be about 11.6% lower than I23 Inferno on average (its not 18% like Nova because I'm assuming constant DoT for both versions).|
Originally Posted by Black_Assassin
How would say a fire/kin corr who can cap himself for damage and has an oblit set in so 100% damage and recharge values compare pre and post i24?
I find it a bit weak atm but that might just be me on a corr, and the fact i dont use it often as it crashes |
I'm also assuming all the DoT ticks land, but its cancel on miss so it will average slightly less (each tick as 99% chance to hit, but a single miss causes all the remaining ticks to fail).
By average damage, I24 Inferno should deal about 3.2% less damage than I23 Inferno for corruptors at the damage cap.
... You actually find damage-capped Inferno to be a bit weak?
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After awhile the kin players all go a little powermad, dont mind them |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
... You actually find damage-capped Inferno to be a bit weak? |
Now we aren't ready quite yet to let the catgirls out of the bag.... (quote from ex libris)
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As always we can thank Arcanaville for doing the leg-work with the numbers. But frankly all it took for me to know the I24 Nuke changes were going to be a net positive is knowing that the "crash" part of the nukes are being removed.|
Originally Posted by Tater Todd
Thanks Arcana for some reason people were looking at the Nuke change as a negative so it helps if you word it differently so they can understand or relate.
I was starting to wonder about some of our posters...  |
For me the crashes are/were so annoying that I would often not even use the nukes on many average occasions. This means the amount of damage I was generating with them was effectively zero. Thus for me the crashless nukes could have had their damage potential cut in HALF from pre-I24 levels and it STILL would have been a positive to me because even a half-damage crashless nuke is more damage on target than NO damage from an unused power. The fact that the average amount of damage coming from a post-I24 is going to be nearly as much as before is basically gravy to me.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
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--{=====> Virtue ♀
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To be courteous to Warshades and Bio Armor users?
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
Why would it be more beneficial to have all the corpses fall over near you, rather than far away? ;P I'd still rather slot it in Explosive Blast.
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Good answer, you shall be spared when the takeover happens.
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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
To be courteous to Warshades and Bio Armor users?
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My analysis is this:
Damage totals on my blasters for crashing nukes is currently zero on minions, and about the same on bosses and lts due to the fact that these powers do not appear in my builds. So I am predicting, based on the maths, a huge increase in effectiveness for these powers.
All kidding aside, I am slightly worried that this might make the game less fun in big groups. There are already groups that kill so fast I have trouble getting off an Assassin's Strike and end up running ahead just to do some damage. I can see these changes exaggerating that.
On the other hand I haven't seen the issue playing my Dual Pistols blaster when I am dealing the nuke so there's that.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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I'm worried about the same thing. My main group already has an issue with +4X8 enemies dying too quickly.
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Originally Posted by Moonlighter
I am slightly worried that this might make the game less fun in big groups. There are already groups that kill so fast I have trouble getting off an Assassin's Strike and end up running ahead just to do some damage.
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As a stalker player I don't consider this a bad thing. Reliance on Assassin strike is a very old school tactic that I dropped ages ago.
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Originally Posted by Garent
I'm worried about the same thing. My main group already has an issue with +4X8 enemies dying too quickly.
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Indeed. Damage increase from tier 9's should be somewhere around infinity percent for a lot of people.
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Originally Posted by Moonlighter
My analysis is this:
Damage totals on my blasters for crashing nukes is currently zero on minions, and about the same on bosses and lts due to the fact that these powers do not appear in my builds. So I am predicting, based on the maths, a huge increase in effectiveness for these powers. |
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
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It's not the stalker assassin strike thing in particular for me, it's that half the people in my SG groups tend to quickly move from one dead group to the next live group while the other half doesn't, and this means that by the time the latter half reaches the group they have to struggle to find live targets.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
As a stalker player I don't consider this a bad thing. Reliance on Assassin strike is a very old school tactic that I dropped ages ago.
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Between this, the new ATO set, the sniper changes, the sustain powers and whatever other unannounced changes may or may not be revealed in beta, I think I might need to use all three builds just to take advantage of all of them.
@Demobot
Also on Steam
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Um, I'm talking about the non-hidden 1.18 animation time version of Assassin's Strike. In a good AoE zerg group who is out of combat long enough for Hide to kick in? By the time I run up and throw my first attack almost everything is dead. Good for XP, bad for game play.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
As a stalker player I don't consider this a bad thing. Reliance on Assassin strike is a very old school tactic that I dropped ages ago.
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I think your post sort of ignores the point I was trying to make though, and that is that buffing nukes is buffing an AoE zerg style of game play that isn't particularly compelling, though it will be good for farming. I'd rather see a large modifier to single target damage then buffs to make AoE zergs more appealing strictly from a fun standpoint.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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I am not sure it will go that far, but I am surprised at the significant shortening of the recharge. 3 or 4 minutes and no crash seemed reasonable. The proposed versions are more impressive, for sure.
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Originally Posted by Moonlighter
I think your post sort of ignores the point I was trying to make though, and that is that buffing nukes is buffing an AoE zerg style of game play that isn't particularly compelling, though it will be good for farming. I'd rather see a large modifier to single target damage then buffs to make AoE zergs more appealing strictly from a fun standpoint.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Well, see, it isn't very appealing if you aren't participating. So move faster. Because it is VERY appealing if you are the one throwing out massive AoEs, as any nuke-happy blaster will tell you.
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Originally Posted by Moonlighter
Um, I'm talking about the non-hidden 1.18 animation time version of Assassin's Strike. In a good AoE zerg group who is out of combat long enough for Hide to kick in? By the time I run up and throw my first attack almost everything is dead. Good for XP, bad for game play.
I think your post sort of ignores the point I was trying to make though, and that is that buffing nukes is buffing an AoE zerg style of game play that isn't particularly compelling, though it will be good for farming. I'd rather see a large modifier to single target damage then buffs to make AoE zergs more appealing strictly from a fun standpoint. |
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I don't see that as a bad thing. When you have enough damage and enough mitigation, team splits are a practical way to regain efficiency. Also, aim for the bosses since nukes don't kill those.
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Originally Posted by Moonlighter
All kidding aside, I am slightly worried that this might make the game less fun in big groups. There are already groups that kill so fast I have trouble getting off an Assassin's Strike and end up running ahead just to do some damage. I can see these changes exaggerating that.
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