I have to say I agree that Bonfire with the proc being a better KD power than Ice Slick is retarded. But I think the answer is a buff to Ice Slick, not a nerf to a power that goes from being very situational without a specific IO to very useful with it.
Also, I've been ok on getting Procs, 3 in ~20 successful runs (stoopid bug on the first days), but I'm trying to collect a full set and the End/Rech piece just keeps coming up. FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY WHY CAN'T I JUST CONVERT THE DANG THING!!!
PSW = ? (Psychic Shockwave?)
And how would Power Boost figure into the equation (if used prior to casting a modified KB>KD power)?
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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Yeah Psychic Shockwave |
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
PSW = ? (Psychic Shockwave?)
And how would Power Boost figure into the equation (if used prior to casting a modified KB>KD power)? |
.Power Boost? Are you replying to me?
The IO currently is messed up it doesn't cause KD in the regular powers.
I think of Bonfire now as a weaker and less awesome version of Carrion Creepers LMAO.
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Thanks.|
Originally Posted by Tater Todd
Yeah Psychic Shockwave
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| Power Boost? Are you replying to me? |
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| I think of Bonfire now as a weaker and less awesome version of Carrion Creepers LMAO. |
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
Creepers have been making Bonfire and Ice slick jealous for years!
Creepers isn't a power available in APPs. Nor is Ice Slick or Earthquake, because they were presumably considered too iconic and powerful.
Heh.
Finally got a second proc and slotted it into my Fire/Earth Dom; Bonfire may need to go from 100% KB down to 75% or so.
While the damage isn't major; the perma KD is. Slow death is me casting and stacking Bonfire while standing in the middle with Hot Feet. They just keep flopping and flopping and flopping and...
There are enemies that can ignore the KB (like Pantheon masks); and attacks do manage to go off from time to time (mez can still get you).
30 more days to get a stockpile: 3 /Storms, 1 Kheld, and 1 KMelee/ still need to get outfitted for conversion.
Question is... what AoE sets (any AT) are lacking on mitigation enough to use a 20% KD proc?
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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I can deal with 75% to proc but what's the point of taking Bonfire if it only has a chance to proc for KD 75% of the time? That means that you have a 25% chance for it to KB mag 6.23...that's way risky and that just makes it worth skipping again.|
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
Finally got a second proc and slotted it into my Fire/Earth Dom; Bonfire may need to go from 100% KB down to 75% or so.
While the damage isn't major; the perma KD is. Slow death is me casting and stacking Bonfire while standing in the middle with Hot Feet. They just keep flopping and flopping and flopping and... There are enemies that can ignore the KB (like Pantheon masks); and attacks do manage to go off from time to time (mez can still get you). 30 more days to get a stockpile: 3 /Storms, 1 Kheld, and 1 KMelee/ still need to get outfitted for conversion. Question is... what AoE sets (any AT) are lacking on mitigation enough to use a 20% KD proc? |
To be honest Bonfire needs some work anyway, the KB is pretty horrible and god help you if you forget for a split second to apply your immob...you might as well run away wait and regroup. It should be a patch like you said Yogi that just deals damage...like Caltrops but has a chance for KD maybe 50-75% of the time.
The KB in it currently helps during dangerous times but it's really not needed...it doesn't mesh well with the rest of the set at all.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Creepers isn't a power available in APPs. Nor is Ice Slick or Earthquake, because they were presumably considered too iconic and powerful.
Heh. |
Well Ice Slick and Earthquake were powerful back then but now days *eeesh* lol. They need to catch up! Ice Slick needs love but Earthquake is on the meh fence lol.
I don't mean to sound like Reppu LOL but my fellow COH players have we forgot what our melee players are capable of? Should we not cherish this blessing that was bestowed on Fire Control?
How is the KD/Bonfire...the way it is now more Powerful than Foot Stomp or the Titan Weapons set? Isn't this a good thing that it gives players more options for Fire Control and an alternative to Plant Control?
Is Fire Control capable of outdoing Plant, Dark and Illusion? and what's wrong with Blasters getting mitigation?
I wish the proc worked fully I would love to use it in Caltrops paired up with Ragnarok chance for KD.
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Originally Posted by Tater Todd
...my fellow COH players have we forgot what our melee players are capable of? Should we not cherish this blessing that was bestowed on Fire Control?
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I like you Todd and don't want to seem like I'm picking on you, but I am particularly un-fond of this argument.
My feeling is that a set that is individually rescued from the balance considerations of other sets pleases the crowd only in the extreme short term. Over time it does more harm to the AT and to the game than good.
If Controllers/Dominators are grossly out performed by melees like you suggest, they are far better off if most of their sets are reasonably close to each other in power. Allowing one or two to grossly outperform the others does a major disservice. It means the ATs themselves cannot be buffed, because the power differential is all over the place.
It should be understood that only about 1/3rd of the complaints about low powered sets probably require uptweaks. The second 1/3rd would disappear if overperformers had been kept in check in the first place. The final 1/3rd would be fixable if overperformers weren't locked into their overperformance, preventing the entire AT from being buffed because the best sets benefit most from it.
But if we're going to get mechanics like this, I propose a -Recharge to -Resist converter and maybe an IO that procs damage on the enemy each time your pet's AI causes it to suicide.
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*Throws up papers of planned response*|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I like you Todd and don't want to seem like I'm picking on you, but I am particularly un-fond of this argument.
My feeling is that a set that is individually rescued from the balance considerations of other sets pleases the crowd only in the extreme short term. Over time it does more harm to the AT and to the game than good. If Controllers/Dominators are grossly out performed by melees like you suggest, they are far better off if most of their sets are reasonably close to each other in power. Allowing one or two to grossly outperform the others does a major disservice. It means the ATs themselves cannot be buffed, because the power differential is all over the place. It should be understood that only about 1/3rd of the complaints about low powered sets probably require uptweaks. The second 1/3rd would disappear if overperformers had been kept in check in the first place. The final 1/3rd would be fixable if overperformers weren't locked into their overperformance, preventing the entire AT from being buffed because the best sets benefit most from it. But if we're going to get mechanics like this, I propose a -Recharge to -Resist converter and maybe an IO that procs damage on the enemy each time your pet's AI causes it to suicide. |
To be honest this IO is amazing but it started a storm...this IO has been simply deemed to powerful in any damage KB power no matter what the AT...but for some reason the melee players do not have an issue with it or either I have yet to hear of any complaints but with Ranged players it's seen as "too powerful".
I would like to have a Dev officially test it out...fix the IO and tell us what they plan to do from there...because to be honest I would like to know what the outcome will be before I even plan to build around this beautiful proc.
EDIT: This should also signal to the Devs how badly the majority of players want this IO...and this should also let them know that certain builds suffer due to KB.
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I meant that an unslotted Bonfire would have 75% chance to KB; slotted with the proc, it would convert that KB to KD and the remaining 25% would be up to the proc's RNG (which would also be KD)? -unless there's something I'm missing?|
Originally Posted by Tater Todd
I can deal with 75% to proc but what's the point of taking Bonfire if it only has a chance to proc for KD 75% of the time? That means that you have a 25% chance for it to KB mag 6.23...that's way risky and that just makes it worth skipping again.
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[/QUOTE]
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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My understanding is that if the power does KB, it is 100% of the time converted to KD when the original power would create KB. If placed in a power without KB, it instead has the 20% proc rate to create KD.
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Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
I meant that an unslotted Bonfire would have 75% chance to KB; slotted with the proc, it would convert that KB to KD and the remaining 25% would be up to the proc's RNG (which would also be KD)? -unless there's something I'm missing?
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Technically, it reduces the magnitude of the KB in any power it's slotted into by 99%. For any player power that's more than enough to get it below the threshold to turn it into KD, unless you're also slotting the power for knockback (but why would you do that?).|
Originally Posted by BViking
My understanding is that if the power does KB, it is 100% of the time converted to KD when the original power would create KB. If placed in a power without KB, it instead has the 20% proc rate to create KD.
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There's also a separate 20% chance to knockdown (mag 0.67 KB) that fires completely independent of any KB the power may have. However that may be broken at the moment.
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Nope. |
Originally Posted by Local_Man
Sorry, but Volcanic Gasses is much, much better than Cinders. I would still give the edge to Earth for Control, but I am very much looking forward to trying out this proc in Bonfire. I just need to find more slots for Bonfire now.
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The KD proc in Bonfire is ridiculous.
100% constant KD in a power that can be perma with minimal recharge slotting. You can have that kind of control over every spawn. It actually made my Fire/Kin almost boring to play because he was going through spawns with zero risk of even getting damaged, let alone defeated.
You have permanant unbreakable control over entire groups of enemies, provided they are not knockback resistant. They flop on the ground, and then flop again before they even get up, and they keep doing that for the entire duration of the power, at which point you can just lay down another one.
I'm honestly expecting this to be tweaked a bit, it's a little overpowered.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Anyone else notice that the Tornado is kind of unmotivated with this enhancement in it? Before I had the KD proc in him, Tommy Twister was running around and chasing enemies. Now he just sits there listlessly and doesn't take any initiative on his own.
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Not personally, every time I've used him he has chased done foes and sometimes gone and agro'd an additional mob!
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Originally Posted by SuperFerret
Anyone else notice that the Tornado is kind of unmotivated with this enhancement in it? Before I had the KD proc in him, Tommy Twister was running around and chasing enemies. Now he just sits there listlessly and doesn't take any initiative on his own.
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Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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Personally, the only real way I can see the Devs justifying a tweak to a power based on the KD to KB enhancement is if they tweaked the power so that is was changed from KB to KD permantely to start with and then increase the recharge/reduce the damage|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I'm honestly expecting this to be tweaked a bit, it's a little overpowered. |
From what I understand powersets are meant to be balanced around SOs so balancing the power around one enhancement wouldn't be fair on those that don't use IOs/Special Enhancements
But maybe that's their plan, put this enhancement out there, see how powers are affected them and then introduce a mass KD2KB change is powers
Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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Posted this in another thread, but I think it's useful here, too:
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As far as I'm aware, all versions of Bonfire and Tornado reference the same two pets. A very easy way to reduce the effectiveness of this IO in those just those two pets without nerfing them or the IO would be to add a tag to each of their KB effects, called "ForceIO". That way, the power would function exactly the same as it always has until the IO was slotted. Then, they would just need to add the corresponding effect to the Overwhelming Force proc that said, for example: -50% to all effects tagged ForceIO. This would reduce the chance the KB would occur in both powers down to 50% while the IO was slotted, without: A) Nerfing either power for anyone without the IO slotted. OR B) The usefulness of the IO in any other power. 50% might still be too high, but it would be easy for the Devs to adjust because it's just a single line in the Overwhelming Force proc that they'd need to tweak. |
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Power Boost (or really, any +Special power) hasn't affected Knockback distance for a couple years now.
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Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
And how would Power Boost figure into the equation (if used prior to casting a modified KB>KD power)?
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How I allow myself to fall outside the loop on these things.... man, I tell ya. |
Originally Posted by Trickshooter
Power Boost (or really, any +Special power) hasn't affected Knockback distance for a couple years now.
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Thanks.
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
Another way to approach this would be to separate (if possible) the damage activation cycle from the KB activation cycle; slightly increasing the latter (to 3-4 seconds).
Or just increasing the overall activation cycle; modifying the new tick damage to maintain the same overall damage (3-4 seconds).
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
Sadly... a change to this Bonfire thing will have to happen. I can farm +4/8 (anything) with NO BUILD. Just that IO. Yea...faster with a build, but my test didn't need it. I also farmed +6/8 (don't ask), took forever to die but was soooo easy.
I love this change to this power, but I know reality. It's gotta go. I'm more upset that the Devs don't test the posible changes before putting them in the game. but i'm sure they are more worried about how to add more dogs to the game.
Check out this!!!! http://www.youtube.com/user/LastRoninCoH/featured
Has anyone Tested it out in OSA yet? It probably wouldn't proc at all since the IO is only doing half of its job currently...and OSA is a weird beast >_>.
When you used PSW, I didn't say anything, although I was grateful when someone else asked for clarification I guess it's my turn. OSA?
Tex once the IO is fixed that means that PSW will deal Knockdown...PSW...that's big...how can Bonfire even compare?