Brute vs Scrapper on this particular set?
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2012-06-13 20:09 in Player Questions
Quote:
There is no difference significant enough between the Scrapper and Brute versions of that powerset combination worth not playing what you want to play, particularly if you are new to the game. There's lots of time for min/maxing down the road.|
Originally Posted by crooked
So I'm making a new character and I've got the concept and power pools down. I want to make an Electric Melee / Shield defense character.
So far I made him a Brute. But I've heard that Scrapper is alot better with that set. From what I heard there is barely (if any at all) any difference in survivability between the two while the Scrapper profits more from the shield than a Brute does. However a Brute can tank. Is this correct? A Scrapper would fit my concept better and I'm not THAT fond of the rage mechanic. However : eventhough I intend on solo'ing a lot and I'm not sure how big of a bonus being able to tank is? My main priority is leveling for now (ofcourse  ).Thanks in advance! EDIT: please keep in mind that I'm a rather new player who lacks a sufficient amount of funds for anything expensive. |
I will say that Brutes tend to have a small leveling advantage over Scrappers due to Fury (which you say you aren't fond of). Once you are fully slotted with damage enhancements, the advantage of Fury dilutes, but in the early game when most players don't have significant slotting the Fury damage bonus is much higher.
But what people are probably thinking is that Shield has a power called Against All Odds which is also a damage booster. It works better for Scrappers than Brutes for mathy reasons not important here. In this case there are pros and cons for both Brutes and Scrappers. If you like Scrappers in general, and would rather play Scrappers, and don't mind rerolling your Brute, Electric/Shield will make a fine Scrapper.
But ultimately, you can't really go wrong with any Scrapper or Brute, so long as you like playing melee in general. Play what you like, and if you're concerned about performance at all, be concerned less about doing the absolute best thing, and more about just making sure you avoid any serious mistakes that will cause critical problems down the road. I don't think Electric/Shield really has any of those.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
If leveling is your main concern, fury will help with that, as the damage buff helps you knock things out faster. once you're in your mid teens to twenties, it honestly wont matter a whole lot. Honestly, the only real difference between the two at the lower levels is the differencce in HP. Once you get higher, and are able to invest in some better enhancements and hit softcap def (45%) that is plenty tanky enough. And that honestly isn't very hard to do at all.
Also, anything the poster above me says is accurate. No matter what she's talking about. Seriously.
Quote:
ANY topic? Null the Gull disagrees with you.
|
Originally Posted by Forevermore
Also, anything the poster above me says is accurate. No matter what she's talking about. Seriously.
|
@Roderick
If you're not bothered about re-rolling, I'd suggest going Scrapper.
Elec/Shield has the two "tele-nuke" powers at level 32 and 38 - where you teleport into a group of enemies and do a rather hefty area attack with knockdown.
The Scrapper versions of these are more effective than the Brute ones.
If you're running with a team doing radio missions or something similar, these will be more than enough to help you tank because they knock everyone over, and will clear the minions from each spawn if followed up with some back up AoE from your team. Having two, you can alternate them.
Against All Odds gives you a taunt aura as well as a damage boost, so you'll be able to tank fine in run-of-the-mill missions as a Scrapper.
Either will work though - Brute or Scrapper. They'll both be able to take punishment and dish it out.
Quote:
Figured I'd take a second and explain why this is. |
Originally Posted by Dr Harmony
Elec/Shield has the two "tele-nuke" powers at level 32 and 38 - where you teleport into a group of enemies and do a rather hefty area attack with knockdown.
The Scrapper versions of these are more effective than the Brute ones. |
The tele-nuke powers are actually pseudo-pets, and as such do not use the same damage cap as the AT they are being used by. They have a 400% damage cap regardless of how much you buff them. They DO, however, use the damage scalar of the AT that is using them (Scrapper's 1.125 vs. Brute's 0.75)
So a Brute's max damage with those powers will be a significant amount lower than the Scrapper's max damage with them. In practice, it won't make much of a difference, but in heavy buff situations you'll notice a difference.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
Since these powers are frequently used with Build Up, a Brute will easily be bumping up against the damage cap. A Brute with ED-capped damage slotting (95%), 70 fury (140%), Build Up (80%), and 5 enemies in AAO range (37.5%) is already well above the damage cap - his Lighting Rod will deal 534 to enemies in the inner radius of the power, and no amount of buffs nor red inspirations will improve that. A Scrapper with the same slotting (95%) and Build Up (100%) and AAO (46.9%) will do 684 damage to enemies in the inner radius of Lighting Rod, and can get as high as 800.8 with a couple inspirations.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
So a Brute's max damage with those powers will be a significant amount lower than the Scrapper's max damage with them. In practice, it won't make much of a difference, but in heavy buff situations you'll notice a difference.
|
This isn't a transformative difference, especially since 534 damage already more than one-shots +0 minions, and if you want to tank, the scrapper still loses by default, but the difference in tele-nuke damage is significant even under normal circumstances.
I think I'll reroll Scrapper then. It fits my concept a lot better, I don't particulary like the fury mechanic on a Brute (I find it really annoying to start up if I wait too long reading mission text etc) and I haven't played one yet!
So thanks for the advice!
WellI will add my two cents. shield is a defense set positional defense to be precise and defense has a softcap which is same for everyone which is %45 for normal content and %59 for incarnate content. Since hardcaps doesn't matter brutes extra HP limit, res limit don't make much difference for shiled because you can't reach them unless you find some godly set bonuses combination but I yet to see such combination. All on survival difference between a shield brute and a shield scrapper is starting HP and it is not that much of a difference.
On the other hand as others pointed out damage difference is a significant one and shield is one of the few secondaries that have damage dealing power.
And my Elec/Shield Scrapper is one of my favorite characters. Me like.
Also, if you don't mind a little bit of math (not much at all, really) the basics of defense and how it interacts with accuracy stuff http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
And if no one has mentioned it yet, if you need some info, www.paragonwiki.com probably has it (aliased at wiki.cohtitan.com)
Quote:
And Dark servant.|
Originally Posted by Roderick
ANY topic? Null the Gull disagrees with you.
|
Which makes 2 posts, out of nearly 30,000 over 8 years, we can pin on Arcanaville. And the Null the Gull issue wasn't really math or mechanics related. So... yeah, pretty much whatever Arcanaville says, she's right
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Quote:
Actually, the Resistance hardcap can come into play fairly often. I have a shield brute, and run fairly often wit the diff cranked, and against Def debuffing enemies, bad things can happen, and quickly. Many times, One with the Shield and an orange or 2 is the answer. With just OwtS, and without the orange, I'm at 70% Res to s/l. If I were a Scrapper, that's be pretty much it, but if I need to, it's not hard to go above what a scrapper could see. Granted, that's taking inspires into account, but to totally disregard that possibility isn't going to get ya the full story.|
Originally Posted by Kangstor
WellI will add my two cents. shield is a defense set positional defense to be precise and defense has a softcap which is same for everyone which is %45 for normal content and %59 for incarnate content. Since hardcaps doesn't matter brutes extra HP limit, res limit don't make much difference for shiled because you can't reach them unless you find some godly set bonuses combination but I yet to see such combination. All on survival difference between a shield brute and a shield scrapper is starting HP and it is not that much of a difference.
On the other hand as others pointed out damage difference is a significant one and shield is one of the few secondaries that have damage dealing power. |
That said, to the OP, I'd probably still recommend Scrapper for this combo. They will still be very durable, just not as durable as a Brute can be. In exchange, tho, you'll push more damage, and you'll never have to chase Fury.
Quote:
Ooh, what was the Dark Servant one?|
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
And my Elec/Shield Scrapper is one of my favorite characters. Me like.
Also, if you don't mind a little bit of math (not much at all, really) the basics of defense and how it interacts with accuracy stuff http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics And if no one has mentioned it yet, if you need some info, www.paragonwiki.com probably has it (aliased at wiki.cohtitan.com) And Dark servant. Which makes 2 posts, out of nearly 30,000 over 8 years, we can pin on Arcanaville. And the Null the Gull issue wasn't really math or mechanics related. So... yeah, pretty much whatever Arcanaville says, she's right |
Anyway, i second Scrapper choice in this instance.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Quote:
I've made a few more errors than that, but fortunately I do tend not to repeat them (except for a weird twitch involving Defiance 2.0 and what issue it was released in: I keep typing I13 for some reason).|
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Which makes 2 posts, out of nearly 30,000 over 8 years, we can pin on Arcanaville.
|
Actually, because correcting my errors is a cottage sport, while I can be wrong I can't be wrong for long. Either I'm right, or the person correcting me soon after is right.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Yeah I agree a scrapper would prob work a little better, since I suspect you are going to use these powers as alpha strikes on a mob. Brutes get a lot less out of it that way - unless they run in and stand around for a bit or something.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but as I understand it, to take advantage of the scrapper's AAO bonus it's best to jump into the group of enemies and THEN nuke, rather than teleporting in from a distance.
Provided you have the defense to survive leaping in of course.
Sparks Fly is my elec/shield scrapper and one of my favorite toons as well.
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
So I'm making a new character and I've got the concept and power pools down. I want to make an Electric Melee / Shield defense character.
).
So far I made him a Brute. But I've heard that Scrapper is alot better with that set. From what I heard there is barely (if any at all) any difference in survivability between the two while the Scrapper profits more from the shield than a Brute does. However a Brute can tank.
Is this correct? A Scrapper would fit my concept better and I'm not THAT fond of the rage mechanic. However : eventhough I intend on solo'ing a lot and I'm not sure how big of a bonus being able to tank is? My main priority is leveling for now (ofcourse
Thanks in advance!
EDIT: please keep in mind that I'm a rather new player who lacks a sufficient amount of funds for anything expensive.