Despite myself, I like SSA2.1 <no spoilers>


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I post this partly because I want to take every opportunity I can to praise this game's storytelling, but more so because I hope that what I'm seeing in recent content is a trend of putting more care into storytelling than just an excuse to go places and kill things. For as jaded as I am about storytelling in City of Heroes of late, if this is where it's going... Well, let's just say that it's improving, and greatly. And that's saying something, considering I've been bashing the game's wiring as getting worse and worse for pretty much the last two years.

I want to take the time to explore what I feel works in this SSA and what I feel doesn't, just because I want to try and figure out WHY it works so well when SSAs 1.1 to 1.6 really, REALLY don't in my eyes.

1. The ending works. As I said, I won't give any spoilers, but to say that the ending in SSA2.1 is neither a downer ending nor a cliffhanger. In fact, I wouldn't even call it an "ending" since the story doesn't really end. It just sort of cuts off mid-sentence, clearly intending to feed into SSA2.2. And I like that, personally. Unlike SSA1, SSA2 doesn't seem to try to pretend it's seven separate stories forming one larger narrative and fully admits that it's one large story that we're just not getting all at once. And it seems to have given the story a LOT of breathing room.

2. The pacing works. SSA2.1 may claim it's five missions long, but two of those are non-combat "talking" missions, so in practice it's about the length of your average SSA1 arc. However, this one seems to have been freed from the need to be a self-contained, three-act story within all of three missions, and this this allows the story to flow much more naturally. It doesn't really end... In fact it barely manages to begin, but that's OK. That's just part of the larger story. Once we have all or most of SSA2 out, this won't feel like a problem and the story will then be able to act like one large cohesive whole, as opposed to seven rushed, botched stories strung together on a single line.

3. The characters, believe it or not, work. After SSA1, I grew to utterly hate everyone in the Freedom Phalanx because of how they were presented. SSA2 starts off with giving them much better characterisation in a scant few lines of dialogue and a simple talking mission. It doesn't quite make up for the horror of SSA1 so it can't make them likeable in just three missions (why the hell is Manticore not in jail yet?), but it manages to make them feel more like real people with their own separate personalities and quirks. This has to do with the two "talking" missions, which manage to condense all the talky parts in controlled conditions where characterisation is easier and frees up the fighting missions to be mostly about fighting with minimal conversation interference. This, to me, is the perfect balance of story and gameplay, done in such a way that neither intrudes on the other, and this helps make the characters work. It also helps that they're not completely useless, inept, horrible people in this.

4. The mood works very well. My chief beef with SSA1 was that it felt like whoever was writing it was one step away from taking a razor blade to his wrists, such was the bluntness of the depressing, intentionally revolting atmosphere. Well, I can safely say that there's none of that here. The situation is no less grim, the people are under no less pressure and the end really doesn't try to lighten the mood, yet because of how the story is told, the "weight" of events feels much more balanced and the player much more in control. The story no longer goes out of its way to depress me, choosing instead to make the severity of the situation abundantly clear, but leave me to react to it with whatever emotions I find are appropriate.

5. The idea inspires. I said I won't spoil it and I won't, even though we all know what SSA2 will be all about from its very name. However, suffice it to say that the story takes on an angle that's a bit more creative than just the most direct interpretation of the premise one might come up with. The major plot elements are largely predictable to the genre-savvy among us, but how the story is executed is where SSA2 really shines. Can't say any more than that without getting into spoilers.

6. The technical side of the writing fails. Oh, boy does it fail! Viking said it best, that it's been bad since Ouroboros' meddling removed Paragon Studio's editor from the timestream, and it REALLY feels like SSA2's text was never proof-read, or indeed never even read before it was submitted. It's not quite as bad as SSA1.7 in this regard, since at least there aren't as many spelling errors (yay for spell check?), but the actual sentence structure, word choice and style is all over the place. Redundancies abound and are very obvious ("it appears" shows up three times in two sentences, for instance) and the whole thing feels like it was uploaded into the final build within 60 seconds of the last period being set down. I've written horrible fiction so I know how easy it is to write text of questionable quality, but I also know how easy it is to spot said questionable quality at even a cursory pass. This studio REALLY needs someone whose job it is to read every bit of text before it makes it into the game, and that someone needs to be paid based on how many corrections he can make. I respect our writers trying to do better, I really do, but they NEED an editor. Bad!

7. BABs rocks. OK, slight spoiler here. At one point you are allowed to pick one member of the Phalanx to go with you on a mission, and since BABs seems to be in his "member of the Phalanx" phase right now, I picked him. His dialogue is awesome, his powers are awesome, he's awesome to have around. I'm not sure how much that has to do with the story. Just wanted to throw that out there.

Overall, SSA2.1 is not perfect, but its heart is in the right place, I think. Sure, technically it's left wanting, especially in terms of writing editing, but it is a chunk of a decent story, well told and not shoved into the mould of a three-act structure. It aspires to be exactly what it is - one excerpt of a longer story, and judging by it, that's a longer story I would like to experience in full.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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I picked BABs too. I might run it a few more times just to pick each of them once.

After all, they all need to be able to run around at least once with a real hero who isn't a jackass!


 

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I agree with you about the new SSA, Samuel. Well, except for the technical writing part, only because I didn't really notice the things you mentioned. Not that they aren't there, mind you - but there wasn't anything glaring enough that it actually got in my way. I especially agree with you about how they portrayed the characters - still having their own distinct (and very imperfect) personalities, but not so unlikeable that you want to kick them all and tell them to grow the hell up.

Another thing I really enjoyed, which isn't on your list, is the use of more sophisticated immersion techniques. There is the obvious, overt flattery on a few occasions, which was utilized in the first SSA arc, but this time, there were more subtle (and I think) more effective techniques as well.

Where we are offered choices, there are actual alternatives (am also trying not to give away spoilers), and not just a series of obvious, canned responses... or worse, different responses you'd never actually give. For example, at the end of the 2nd mission, you get 2 very different options, which seems to guide the player into something of a roleplaying response. That's not just a nifty bit of writing for plot content. The first time I ran it (and subsequently, too), I had to stop and think for a moment, "what would my character actually do? And why?" That changed the dynamic of the SSA to something with much more depth. And later, that choice came into play during the "chose a hero to help you" part of the last mission. I loved that! What we did actually affected something!

This was also achieved through a deft use of cutscenes, most particularly the one where you view yourself running into the group of the assembled Freedom Phalanx. The last SSA had cutscenes into which our characters were inserted also, and while this one has some of those, too, this one in particular had more resonance - that scene "felt" like you were joining up with your friends or acquaintances, and a whole lot less like your face was photo-shopped into the picture.

It's really enjoyable to watch much more sophisticated the dev team has become at this stuff, and also that it's not "just" the writers, it's the art team as well. I'm sure there were other, more subtly immersive things in this arc which I'm just not bright enough to have caught on to yet. Certain parts just resonated more than other parts, which leads me to believe something tricksy was afoot, you know? Now I want to run it yet again to figure out how it was all done. A well-crafted book has that effect on me, too.


 

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FPAE! First post after eeek!

O hai eeek


"I accidently killed Synapse, do we need to restart the mission?" - The Oldest One on Lord Recluses Strike Force

 

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Originally Posted by _eeek_ View Post
Well, except for the technical writing part, only because I didn't really notice the things you mentioned. Not that they aren't there, mind you - but there wasn't anything glaring enough that it actually got in my way.
The technical side of the writing gets up my craw probably more than it should because I do this sort of thing as a hobby, and cleaning up my own writing has become something of a second skill to writing. I can't read a fictional work and not keep an eye out for text errors and bad word choices just because they stick out to me. More than anything, though, I rage against those because they're easy mistakes to catch, you just need someone to actually go through the text looking for them. It doesn't even take all that long. All you need is one person with about a day's worth of time and a writer's streak to go through ALL the new Issue texts and fix the texts, which is why it looks so unprofessional when that clearly didn't happen. There is no QA on in-game texts beyond what proof-reading the writers do themselves, and they clearly do none of it since it seems like they're always pressed for time to go do something else.

I really don't think we should give bad technical writing a free pass just because it's not a big deal. It's an easily fixable problem that they REALLY need to start fixing. It makes otherwise good stories come off looking unprofessional and slapped together.

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Originally Posted by _eeek_ View Post
Where we are offered choices, there are actual alternatives (am also trying not to give away spoilers), and not just a series of obvious, canned responses... or worse, different responses you'd never actually give. For example, at the end of the 2nd mission, you get 2 very different options, which seems to guide the player into something of a roleplaying response. That's not just a nifty bit of writing for plot content. The first time I ran it (and subsequently, too), I had to stop and think for a moment, "what would my character actually do? And why?" That changed the dynamic of the SSA to something with much more depth. And later, that choice came into play during the "chose a hero to help you" part of the last mission. I loved that! What we did actually affected something!
Yes, I did neglect to talk about this, and I really should have. You're right, the choices SSA2.1 gives us really did make me stop and think for a moment, and I can't say that about a lot of the other stories I've run through, ESPECIALLY all of SSA1. I remember how long I spent wondering what to do way back in Dean and Leonard's arc, and this is kind of in the same vein. It's not specifically vital that you make the "right" choice as it's just a character moment that makes me sit and think... What would Xanta do? She's impatient, yes, and very ruthless, but she also has a strong sense of right and wrong and a soft spot for people acting to protect the ones they love... Even if they're idiots about it. OK, you get a pass. Or... Who would Xanta pick? Well, she respects strength, tenacity and decisiveness, so Back Alley Brawler is the obvious choice, right? Sure, he may not be the best fit for a Brute, but as a character, he'd be someone she could trust.

Ever since Going Rogue came out and started offering all of those choices with heavy consequences that I made less with an eye towards character and personality and more towards which faction's missions I hadn't run yet, I've been asking for exactly this - character-defining choices that don't have wide-spanning, character-altering consequences. Sure, these still matter, in the same way as sparing that DUST commander in First Ward has him do a cameo later on, but they don't change my alignment, enable or block missions or railroad me into a specific plot. When I have no reason to make a choice based on which result is the "best," I'm left with making the choice based on what my character would do, and that's pretty much the most pleasant kind.

There's still the problem of putting words in my mouth, though. When given a yes/no choice, my replies were "I'd be honoured!" and "No!" with nothing in-between. Um... Xanta isn't really the kind of person who'd be "honoured" to do much of anything, especially in light of who's giving the honour. I was looking for a response where she'd look around, roll her eyes and go: "Oh, yeah, you definitely need me." but that didn't show up.

Honestly, I'm reminding of the Spoony One's review of the Ultima series, where he describes the Avatar's only interaction with the world as being "Name, Job and Bye." And, honestly, that's kind of what I'd really like to see here, as well. I know our writers do their darnest to put substance behind our characters by giving us moving speeches and clever lines, but... That's kind of sort of OUR job. Plus, it's completely impossible to account for every character's style of speech and personality. Wouldn't it be simplest, when given a yes/no answer, for my answer to be "yes" and "no" with exactly how my character said them being up to me to decide?

There's a bit of that in Dark Astoria, where a writer clearly tried to be vague about exactly who we are, by saying how "you remember the first time you used your powers" and how "you see images of people you love twisted so they become negative," and while it's awkward and stilted and there were better ways to go about it, I applaud the effort uproariously. So when is that going to make it into our dialogues?


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Yes, I did neglect to talk about this, and I really should have. You're right, the choices SSA2.1 gives us really did make me stop and think for a moment, and I can't say that about a lot of the other stories I've run through, ESPECIALLY all of SSA1.
I'd say *almost* all of Who Will Die. The press conference options at the end pretty much summed up my frustration at the lack of branching in WWD, particularly in missions #3, #4 and #6. There were a few sparks of free will in WWD, though, like in mission #2, when you can refuse to rough up the art dealer for info (and instead sneak into his archives).

Other than that, I agree with pretty much everything you said, Sam, thankfully the slit-wrist theme of WWD no longer seems present in Pandora's Box. I'm even beginning to respect Manticore, he was the only one willing to admonish our Mary Sue PCs for letting the Clockwork King walk.


 

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I picked Positron myself.

And yes, I love the fact that the writing is so very much UN-depressing, because honestly at times during SSA1 I felt like I was a few steps from slitting my OWN wrists over either how downbeat the atmosphere was or from the sheer enforced stupidity on the part of the PC.


 

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Originally Posted by Issen View Post
And yes, I love the fact that the writing is so very much UN-depressing, because honestly at times during SSA1 I felt like I was a few steps from slitting my OWN wrists over either how downbeat the atmosphere was or from the sheer enforced stupidity on the part of the PC.
You can't believe how much I appreciate this precise point. The downbeat, damn depressing tone of SSA1 is easily one of its worst qualities, partly because it reinforces the feeling that everything I do ultimately fails, and partly because it has absolutely no levity anywhere in it. I find that a good story, even a dramatic one, needs to strike a good balance between light and heavy theme, both so that the heavy teams can be appreciated when they show up and so I can actually breathe in-between the heavy dramatic moments.

I must admit that I'm very soured on Penny Yin because of how she's being handled, and her being bratty about "Oh, it's no big deal I mind-controlled my team-mates, it's all in good fun!" attitude is reprehensible... But at the same time, her goofiness and her arguments with the other Phalanx members do serve to defuse the tension of the story here and there, and it keeps a nice balance all around. As I said - SSA2.1 is no less heavy and threatening than anything in SSA1, but it's handled such that we can feel the danger without necessarily being depressed by it.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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I picked Citadel. I talked to all of them and he's the only one that really seemed to want to go with me due to interest.


@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8

 

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ive not run the heroside version of any of the sig story arcs lol

IMO i liked all the redside ones, although it was still disapointing that the player was not the one to actually kill statesman

as for SSA2.1 i enjoyed it, it really made some good points about villainy and the fact that even super strong beings cannot control things by themselves but need loyal followers (such as arachnos)


 

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I really enjoyed the arc, but it made me sorta dislike Penny as a character (love her powerset though). Perhaps that's because I've got no reason to feel any sympathy for Clockwork King.

I was particularly amused by the 'see the first mission in the Lady Grey TF for more info' footnote, as it was very reminiscent of reading comic books.

I took Penny with me at the end to give her a chance to redeem herself. I was hoping for some dialogue while we were fighting Clamor but was disappointed. Ah well.

I was also disappointed when I finished the arc and clicked on the SSA access button, saw part two of the arc, clicked on it and was put into part one again. I guess part two must not actually be available yet.


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
You can't believe how much I appreciate this precise point. The downbeat, damn depressing tone of SSA1 is easily one of its worst qualities, partly because it reinforces the feeling that everything I do ultimately fails, and partly because it has absolutely no levity anywhere in it. I find that a good story, even a dramatic one, needs to strike a good balance between light and heavy theme, both so that the heavy teams can be appreciated when they show up and so I can actually breathe in-between the heavy dramatic moments.

I must admit that I'm very soured on Penny Yin because of how she's being handled, and her being bratty about "Oh, it's no big deal I mind-controlled my team-mates, it's all in good fun!" attitude is reprehensible... But at the same time, her goofiness and her arguments with the other Phalanx members do serve to defuse the tension of the story here and there, and it keeps a nice balance all around. As I said - SSA2.1 is no less heavy and threatening than anything in SSA1, but it's handled such that we can feel the danger without necessarily being depressed by it.
Well, SSA1 BLUESIDE specifically had the tension issues because yeah, I felt like I was forced to play an idiot (now I know how redsiders feels while running Dr. Graves' arc).

BUT, at the same time, I recognized something too. SSA1 felt like it was designed for someone new who was just approaching the content. Most of us with seasoned characters would go "Wait, WHY am I walking into an obvious trap?" because we've seen it a million times before in all the other non-SSA content.

But someone who was just starting out or hadn't gotten that far content-wise wouldn't feel quite so dumb.


 

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Originally Posted by Issen View Post
But someone who was just starting out or hadn't gotten that far content-wise wouldn't feel quite so dumb.
I don't know. It's more the fact that the arc's storytelling is incredibly predictable to anyone who's even the slightest genre-savvy. The MOMENT Alexis is brought up and put in a "peace conference" in enemy territory, that's a blaring red siren in my head telling me "Things will go bad and she will get kidnapped!" Because I've seen this plot a million times before, and not just in this game. It's a basic cliché of writing that if you make a point of explaining how a character is put in a dangerous situation but is still well-guarded, then that guard will fail and the character will die or be kidnapped.

And even for those not genre-savvy among us, after the first mission in SSA1.4, it should become bludgeoningly obvious that any time something happens off-screen while we're not there, it will be a miserable failure and people will die because of it. Because it happens every time we're told to leave the scene and go do something important - people get kidnapped/killed/mindridden off-screen. It comes off like the writer REALLY wanting to keep throwing shocking surprises at the player, blissfully unaware that after the first couple or so we'll wise up and expect them. And when you're expecting a plot twist, not having one is pretty much the biggest plot twist you can introduce, but no. This is Soul Reaver all over again - twist after twist after twist, and all of them depressing, to the point where they become the status quo. I'm left expecting everything to go to **** behind my back because apparently God doesn't want me to succeed. And once I resign myself to this mindset and my expectations are proven true time and again, the story gets damn depressing right quick.

SSA2.1 was, to me, the most surprising of all because a situation was introduced where characters might die... AND THEY DIDN'T! It was played pretty much straight in that I go there, find them beat up and save them. Wow... A simple, straightforward story surprised me! And the other rescue was even more impressive, in the sense that it was a twist, but not the damn depressing one I'd grown to expect.

What I'm saying is you don't have to have played the game for eight years to realise that the SSA1 story is repeating itself.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
The downbeat, damn depressing tone of SSA1 is easily one of its worst qualities, partly because it reinforces the feeling that everything I do ultimately fails, and partly because it has absolutely no levity anywhere in it.

SSA1 had many, many problems: "STATESMAN IS GOING TO DIE" announced well ahead of time, the "Killing off Statesman" comments by Matt Miller and the enforced stupidity/idiocy on everyone, resulting in multiple deaths and complete frustration. But the absolute nail in the coffin was Smilin' Statesman, walking into the Obvious Trap™ and "welcoming his death" at the hands of his daughter's murderer.

I stopped with episode 4 and never finished the arc. I have no plans to. It provokes too many bad responses for multiple reasons.

So I appreciate the spoiler-free endorsement of SSA2, Sam. There is still good writing being done in CoH, particularly in giving NPCs personality and telling some tales that are not so darkety-dark-dark-dark, or at least having options to head in another direction. I want to play a superhero that helps people, not be a helpless participant in an Existential Angst/Despair Festival. Given that you appear to have the same viewpoint, I will have to give SSA2 a whirl based on your endorsement.

I also continue to be bemused that Samuel Tow, speaking and writing English as a second language, is so fluent and well-spoken, and finds the sloppy grammar, typos and poor vocabulary choices in the CoH texts so annoying. I am reminded of something said by President George W. Bush: "I know that upon occasion I have some trouble with my sentences and I have sometimes had my English corrected by others. It is just a surprise when it is Governor Schwarzenegger correcting me."



Edit: Let me clarify, though, that the point is that Sam is correcting folks that ought to know better since English is their first language. Let me be clear, though: Sam, you are hardly a Schwarzenegger in your command of English, and I never would have discerned that you did not speak English natively had you not disclosed it. Having seen some of the things you have objected to, though, I think even Schwarzenegger would object to them as well.


"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"

"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."

 

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Originally Posted by Melancton View Post
I appreciate the spoiler-free endorsement of SSA2, Sam. There is still good writing being done in CoH, particularly in giving NPCs personality and telling some tales that are not so darkety-dark-dark-dark, or at least having options to head in another direction. I want to play a superhero that helps people, not be a helpless participant in an Existential Angst/Despair Festival. Given that you appear to have the same viewpoint, I will have to give SSA2 a whirl based on your endorsement.
Yeah, I'd really suggest you try the arc. More than anything else, DO NOT get discouraged from the first mission. Play it through to the end and try to keep an open mind as to what might be happening and what effects it might be having. It's a very clever idea delivered with a degree of subtlety we've not seen in a while. As I said before, SSA2.1 manages to communicate a situation that's probably a lot more dangerous than all of SSA1 combined, and yet it manages to do this without insulting your intelligence or trying to kill your spirits. As far as content goes... That one's actually pretty good.

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Originally Posted by Melancton View Post
I also continue to be bemused that Samuel Tow, speaking and writing English as a second language, is so fluent and well-spoken, and finds the sloppy grammar, typos and poor vocabulary choices in the CoH texts so annoying.
Hah, thank you! I don't want to sound like I'm calling our writers illiterate, though. As I said before, bad grammar, awkward spelling and poor sentence structure and word selection happen to every writer. I dare say they're unavoidable, just because you can't think about all aspects of a text simultaneously with actually writing it, so it's natural that the first draft will always be... Questionable. It's how that goes. However, that's also why proof-reading is so crucial - because you can pretty much count on the first draft being awkward, stilted and rife with technical errors. You can count on it, and you need to fix it.

It's at the "fix it" part that Paragon Studios QA seems to fumble, because a lot of these texts honestly feel like they were never checked for errors and style. I used to think that the writers just weren't very good, but I've seen a lot of this "not very good" text by now to recognise that our writers aren't actually bad at all, it's just that we're reading right off their first, coffee-stained, crumpled-up manuscript since that never went through an editor to be cleaned up and printed up neat and pretty. Mistakes a child would spot at a cursory reading are really not something I can attribute to a writer just being poor, because they're not mistakes of skill, they're mistakes of technicality that this writer would have cleaned up himself were he given the time to read what he wrote before submitting it, or were an editor to give the text a careful pass.

In short, it seems to me that our writers are getting a very bad name not because they're bad writers but because the studio tolerates the practice of publishing their work before it's cleaned up. Nobody that I'm aware of can write a masterpiece down on the first try.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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I post this partly because I want to take every opportunity I can to praise this game's storytelling, but more so because I hope that what I'm seeing in recent content is a trend of putting more care into storytelling than just an excuse to go places and kill things. For as jaded as I am about storytelling in City of Heroes of late, if this is where it's going... Well, let's just say that it's improving, and greatly. And that's saying something, considering I've been bashing the game's wiring as getting worse and worse for pretty much the last two years.
Bluntly, Sam, I would have expected the quality of SSA2 to be noticeably improved over that of SSA1. SSA1 suffered from a handful of structural flaws that hampered the ability of the writers to tell a decent story; although I'm not entirely letting them off the hook for certain things (killing off a major character by effectively having a villain wave a magic wand irritates me just thinking about it), I'm willing to grant them a -small- degree of latitude, due to them being impeded by certain factors of out their control. These, in my opinion were principally:

1. A lack of time and space to flesh out the major plot points. If SSA1, or at least many of its events had been stretched over 2 arcs, perhaps with foreshadowing of events in SSA1 and more space to hang some lampshades over certain decisions, things would have seemed less idiotic.

2. A "tick the check-box" approach: the writers needed to have certain things in place for SSA2, when the "real" story was due to start, so most of SSA was making characters jump through hoops despite if not necessarily it making sense for them to do so. Again, stretching these tickboxes out would have helped immensely here.

3. The plot revolved around a body count and the character constantly failing, which made the tone of the story jarring to some. We're constantly told in SSA1 that it's an achievement simply to survive against the villain. It really doesn't feel that way. Again, extending the story, perhaps with a mid story victory for the PC, would have helped with this.

4. Many players coming to the SSA's were obviously assumed to be seeing the major characters in action for the first time, so exposition was required; largely due to 1. and 2. it was done in a ham-fisted way.


All the tickboxes have been checked. Emmert's characters have been removed. We've been introduced to the characters... somewhat. With all that now out of the way, the writers can now begin properly.



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-Captain Aegis, aka @Captain Valiant EU


 

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I think most of the criticisms of SSA1 are based on it doing too good a job of aping standard comic book writing. Most heroes are genre-blind and walk into obvious traps all the time. Those that are genre-savvy still walk into obvious traps, but make some witty coment about it.

As for the seemingly arbitrary way major character was killed off, may I point to the introduction of Doomsday and Bane?

Penny Yin is so much Jean Paul Valley that I think her hero name must be Azrael-Girl.

Maybe the writer is also someone whose comic book experience is grounded in the early 90s?


I really should do something about this signature.

 

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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
I think most of the criticisms of SSA1 are based on it doing too good a job of aping standard comic book writing.
Now my best friend, who also plays the game, keeps telling me to accept any plot holes as "comicbook writing". And I hold nothing against her but I honestly HATE "comic book writing" being used. Comic book writing is NOT a blank check for bad writing, it should be the bottom rung standard you avoid like rats and other flea baring creatures during the Black Plague. "Comic book writing" is what's been causing problems for people to get into and enjoy the comic book industry. It's as bad as when Joe Quesada said "It's magic, we don't have to explain it."

As a funny note, when I presented a story arc for the same friend to look at, she immediately called me on my bad writing, I called her own letting the devs get away with it and the response was: "I don't expect good storytelling from the Devs anymore, I still have hope for you."


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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
I don't know. It's more the fact that the arc's storytelling is incredibly predictable to anyone who's even the slightest genre-savvy. The MOMENT Alexis is brought up and put in a "peace conference" in enemy territory, that's a blaring red siren in my head telling me "Things will go bad and she will get kidnapped!" Because I've seen this plot a million times before, and not just in this game. It's a basic cliché of writing that if you make a point of explaining how a character is put in a dangerous situation but is still well-guarded, then that guard will fail and the character will die or be kidnapped.

And even for those not genre-savvy among us, after the first mission in SSA1.4, it should become bludgeoningly obvious that any time something happens off-screen while we're not there, it will be a miserable failure and people will die because of it. Because it happens every time we're told to leave the scene and go do something important - people get kidnapped/killed/mindridden off-screen. It comes off like the writer REALLY wanting to keep throwing shocking surprises at the player, blissfully unaware that after the first couple or so we'll wise up and expect them. And when you're expecting a plot twist, not having one is pretty much the biggest plot twist you can introduce, but no. This is Soul Reaver all over again - twist after twist after twist, and all of them depressing, to the point where they become the status quo. I'm left expecting everything to go to **** behind my back because apparently God doesn't want me to succeed. And once I resign myself to this mindset and my expectations are proven true time and again, the story gets damn depressing right quick.

SSA2.1 was, to me, the most surprising of all because a situation was introduced where characters might die... AND THEY DIDN'T! It was played pretty much straight in that I go there, find them beat up and save them. Wow... A simple, straightforward story surprised me! And the other rescue was even more impressive, in the sense that it was a twist, but not the damn depressing one I'd grown to expect.

What I'm saying is you don't have to have played the game for eight years to realise that the SSA1 story is repeating itself.
Not to mention it was CLEAR that SSA1 Redside was getting more of the plot told to them than blueside was, not to mention all the shiny temp powers as well. There were multiple instances (like the fact you don't know the piece of Aurora's personality jumped into the body of the Circle assassin UNLESS YOU PLAYED VILLAIN-SIDE or waited till the EPILOGUE IN PART SEVEN) where it was clear that plot points were being withheld for reasons I could not understand.

But yeah the near-continuous string of "heroes fail because they have to" just about made me give up. It's only when villains get double-crossed by Wade (which again, ANY genre-savvy person would see coming a mile away) does it get interesting.

I will continue to attest that Sister Psyche's death was utterly pointless and served only as a means to shoehorn in Penelope Yin, who didn't NEED to be shoe-horned in. If the problem was that they only wanted ONE person to fill the "psychic specialist" role, then they could've done something else to Psyche BESIDES kill her and make Manticore even more of a jerk than before.

Which brings me to another issue: Do the writers have this obsession with jerking Manticore's chain around? They seem to do it an awful lot as of late.


 

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Originally Posted by Issen View Post
Not to mention it was CLEAR that SSA1 Redside was getting more of the plot told to them than blueside was, not to mention all the shiny temp powers as well. There were multiple instances (like the fact you don't know the piece of Aurora's personality jumped into the body of the Circle assassin UNLESS YOU PLAYED VILLAIN-SIDE or waited till the EPILOGUE IN PART SEVEN) where it was clear that plot points were being withheld for reasons I could not understand.

But yeah the near-continuous string of "heroes fail because they have to" just about made me give up. It's only when villains get double-crossed by Wade (which again, ANY genre-savvy person would see coming a mile away) does it get interesting.

I will continue to attest that Sister Psyche's death was utterly pointless and served only as a means to shoehorn in Penelope Yin, who didn't NEED to be shoe-horned in. If the problem was that they only wanted ONE person to fill the "psychic specialist" role, then they could've done something else to Psyche BESIDES kill her and make Manticore even more of a jerk than before.

Which brings me to another issue: Do the writers have this obsession with jerking Manticore's chain around? They seem to do it an awful lot as of late.
I actually really liked how heroes were getting less info than villains.

As for Manticore... Come on! Look at his hat! You'd want to jerk that jerk around too!


"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."

 

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Originally Posted by Issen View Post
I will continue to attest that Sister Psyche's death was utterly pointless and served only as a means to shoehorn in Penelope Yin, who didn't NEED to be shoe-horned in. If the problem was that they only wanted ONE person to fill the "psychic specialist" role, then they could've done something else to Psyche BESIDES kill her and make Manticore even more of a jerk than before.
Pure speculation, but I get the feeling it was a legal issue, that Paragon Studios *had* to stop using all of Jack Emmert's signature characters after a specific period of time - Statesman, Miss Liberty, Sister Psyche and Malaise. Notice how they managed to keep Ms. Liberty alive - they killed Miss Liberty instead. If I'm not mistaken, the Jessica/Megan/Alexis/Monica issue was resolved in the forums by Sean "Manticore" Fish, technically making Ms. Liberty (Megan) his creation.


 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
BABs rocks. OK, slight spoiler here. At one point you are allowed to pick one member of the Phalanx to go with you on a mission, and since BABs seems to be in his "member of the Phalanx" phase right now, I picked him. His dialogue is awesome, his powers are awesome, he's awesome to have around. I'm not sure how much that has to do with the story. Just wanted to throw that out there.
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Originally Posted by Knight_Marshal View Post
I picked BABs too. I might run it a few more times just to pick each of them once.
I picked BaBs as well - and as soon as I entered the mission map with him, he was nowhere to be found ! No biggie, I took care of the problem all by my lone self... *cracking knuckles*

Apart from that, I thoroughly enjoyed SSA2.1, for all the reasons listed above.

I enjoyed it so much, that it motivated me to finish up SSA1 part 3 thru 7. OK, now it's done and We Will Never Speak Of This Again...



Keep NCSoft from shutting down City of Heroes : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes

 

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Originally Posted by Issen View Post
like the fact you don't know the piece of Aurora's personality jumped into the body of the Circle assassin UNLESS YOU PLAYED VILLAIN-SIDE or waited till the EPILOGUE IN PART SEVEN
Wait, what?


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.