I don't often do respecs, but I agree they could make the process a bit smoother. However, I think there's a problem with implementing Mids with City of Heroes for a number of reasons, none of which I can remember fully right now.
Anyway, i'd back this 
I was doing some playthroughs of City of Heroes. Now they will serve as memories of a better time ...
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The biggest problem with it is that City of Heroes doesn't own Mids, it's owned by players running the Titan Network and the devs aren't going to give players access to the back end of the games code.|
Originally Posted by TheShattered
I don't often do respecs, but I agree they could make the process a bit smoother. However, I think there's a problem with implementing Mids with City of Heroes for a number of reasons, none of which I can remember fully right now.
Anyway, i'd back this |
To the OP: adding Mids to respecs was already discussed in this thread made 4 days ago on the same topic.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=290879
I mostly hate respecting high level like 50s because I am afraid of messing up and breaking them. I do need to respect all of my 50s because of Fitness :P
respec <> respect
*paging ms. Franklin, paging ms. Franklin!*
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
I don't see what's so difficult about it. Yes, it's time consuming, but that's kind of the point. You make less mistakes if you take your time.
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Why?|
Originally Posted by SuperFerret
I don't see what's so difficult about it. Yes, it's time consuming, but that's kind of the point.
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It shouldn't be.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
It shouldn't be time consuming? It's not really time consuming anyway, and removing the last sentence of my post also removes the very "why?" you're asking.
Making it faster would lead to more mistakes made, which would lead to cries from the player base that the system sets you up for mistakes so you have to buy another respec and yada yada yada. It works fine the way it is, and it's not difficult.
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Haven't you been here long enough to realize that no matter what the devs do there will be people complaining about it?
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Originally Posted by SuperFerret
It shouldn't be time consuming? It's not really time consuming anyway, and removing the last sentence of my post also removes the very "why?" you're asking.
Making it faster would lead to more mistakes made, which would lead to cries from the player base that the system sets you up for mistakes so you have to buy another respec and yada yada yada. It works fine the way it is, and it's not difficult. |
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The devs could do everything right for an arbitrary person and that person would still complain because they no longer have anything to complain about.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Haven't you been here long enough to realize that no matter what the devs do there will be people complaining about it?
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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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It shouldn't be time consuming because the interface is a piece of archaic garbage, no. |
Originally Posted by SuperFerret
It shouldn't be time consuming? It's not really time consuming anyway, and removing the last sentence of my post also removes the very "why?" you're asking.
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Whatever thought goes into a respect happens offline using a third party program. It would be preferable to be able to import that chunk of work directly, but if we can't the game should at least provide a streamlined interface to make physically importing that data a non-aggravating process.
We got respecs grudgingly- the old guard was hostile to the idea and wanted extremely limited access. They made the process as annoying as possible in keeping with their design philosophy that time spent dealing with wrongheaded nonsense counted as "content" (see: old transit system, DO & SO naming conventions, stores not marked on maps, etc).
the ever increasing complexity of the modern game makes respecs a valuable tool- they're not just a last resort OH CRAP button anymore.
The interface should reflect this.
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| Making it faster would lead to more mistakes made, which would lead to cries from the player base that the system sets you up for mistakes so you have to buy another respec and yada yada yada. It works fine the way it is, and it's not difficult. |
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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When something sucks, they ought to hear about it.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Haven't you been here long enough to realize that no matter what the devs do there will be people complaining about it?
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The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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No one said they shouldn't. I merely pointed out that there will always be someone complaining. The fact that there will always be complaints shouldn't stop the devs from improving things. Some people just enjoy complaining.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
When something sucks, they ought to hear about it.
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I don't think the respec interface is archaic or garbage. It's basically just getting to choose your powers and slots again from scratch. It's no more of a hassle than leveling up. Also, not everyone uses a third-party offline program to do their respecs. (And what was wrong with the old transit system or the enhancement naming conventions?)
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
It shouldn't be time consuming because the interface is a piece of archaic garbage, no.
Whatever thought goes into a respect happens offline using a third party program. It would be preferable to be able to import that chunk of work directly, but if we can't the game should at least provide a streamlined interface to make physically importing that data a non-aggravating process. We got respecs grudgingly- the old guard was hostile to the idea and wanted extremely limited access. They made the process as annoying as possible in keeping with their design philosophy that time spent dealing with wrongheaded nonsense counted as "content" (see: old transit system, DO & SO naming conventions, stores not marked on maps, etc). the ever increasing complexity of the modern game makes respecs a valuable tool- they're not just a last resort OH CRAP button anymore. The interface should reflect this. The interface is garbage and is in dire need of an update/makeover reflecting the massive changes since whatever long ago issue added it to the game. |
Eh. There are a few things that could be done with respecs. Personally, I'm more in option of a "replace single power/replace last X levels" (up to 5, say) coming in.
I don't really see the "tediousness" of slotting IOs (yes, I do have some heavily IO'd characters - I just don't care to do it often.) When I *do* have one that does multiple sets of the same thing, I just put each piece in the same place. "OK, that one has Swan's Handkerchief Acc/Dam in slot 1, so does that one, and.... missing there." *slot*
Alternately, a screen ahead of time that says "Keep this slotting" that auto-slots whatever you had before, picked per power, including the levels of IOs to speed things up a bit. Just so you can concentrate on the changes.
The only thing somewhat related I'd like to get rid of is the enhancement combination screen. Really, I don't need to see a fake "roll" and "tadaa!" or "Nope!" when I'm combining a bunch of DOs/SOs. Just do it.
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Yes I agree. The code for the game could somehow fall into the wrong hands and be used to hack the game and it would create a whole mess of things, possibly player's accounts being stolen, so on and so on.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
The biggest problem with it is that City of Heroes doesn't own Mids, it's owned by players running the Titan Network and the devs aren't going to give players access to the back end of the games code.
To the OP: adding Mids to respecs was already discussed in this thread made 4 days ago on the same topic. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=290879 |
To the OP: I agree that the respec interface could be improved. Sometimes when I respec I place a slot on the wrong power and when I click the back button, the last 'set' of slots are removed, not just the single slot I misplaced. When this happens I lose my place and have to click the back button and start completely over.
MY suggestion would be: instead of removing the whole set of slots and previous set of slots when you misplace one (example: if you do not place all of the current 'set' of slots, it will remove the slots of that set as well as the whole previous set) and click the back button, clicking back would remove only a single slot in order from last to first slot placed. Although If you realized you misplaced a few slots you would need to hit the back button a lot more. But in the end it wouldn't confuse players like me where we go "great! all those other slots were moved and I can't remember which power and what order I placed them so I gotta start all over!".
Edit: Forgot to mention a CANCEL button. For the love of god a CANCEL button! Nothing more annoying than respecing a level 50 only to get as far as placing the level 48 slots and realize I took the wrong power at level 8
. Then I have to click the back button god knows how many times so I can exit the UI and start over. A cancel button that makes you exit the interface so you can start all over would be very nice.
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The leveling interface is okay for picking ONE power or placing a couple of slots, as when you visit a trainer & level up, in the way a teaspoon works well for adding some sugar to your coffee.|
Originally Posted by SuperFerret
I don't think the respec interface is archaic or garbage. It's basically just getting to choose your powers and slots again from scratch. It's no more of a hassle than leveling up.
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But using it to fill your empty sugar bowl would be tedious and annoying, as using the current interface to respec a high level character is tedious and annoying.
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| Also, not everyone uses a third-party offline program to do their respecs. |
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Another issue:
AFTER you've finally tweezed and teased everything back into the proper, exacting order, you go back into the game....
And find tray after tray clogged full of temp powers, and vanity pets, and crap from missions you did FIVE YEARS AGO.
FOR GOD'S SAKE.
How damn hard would it be to put the powers from your PRIMARY into TRAY ONE. Really.
Powers from your SECONDARY go into tray two. Pools go into tray three.
DO NOT SLOT all the rest of that freakin' crap. If I absolutely, positively, MUST HAVE INSTANT ACCESS to the freakin' MVAS before my gaming experience will be complete, I will damn well go and look it up FOR MYSELF.
(foams at mouth)
thank goodness for the /cleartray slash command.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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/cleartray|
Originally Posted by mauk2
Another issue:
AFTER you've finally tweezed and teased everything back into the proper, exacting order, you go back into the game.... And find tray after tray clogged full of temp powers, and vanity pets, and crap from missions you did FIVE YEARS AGO. FOR GOD'S SAKE. How damn hard would it be to put the powers from your PRIMARY into TRAY ONE. Really. Powers from your SECONDARY go into tray two. Pools go into tray three. DO NOT SLOT all the rest of that freakin' crap. If I absolutely, positively, MUST HAVE INSTANT ACCESS to the freakin' MVAS before my gaming experience will be complete, I will damn well go and look it up FOR MYSELF. (foams at mouth) |
EDIT: CURSE YOU, RANGLLLLLLLLLLLE!
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Aggelakis got caught in a Rangle Plot™
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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(sigh)|
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
thank goodness for the /cleartray slash command.
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I did not ask about the cleartray.
Amazingly enough, /cleartray does not address this issue in the slightest, nor does it make it any better that I have to hand-pick and place every damn power I wish to have any interactive control over.
PRIMARY POWERS IN TRAY ONE.
SECONDARY POWERS IN TRAY TWO.
POOLS IN TRAY THREE.
Any leftovers, ehn, I'm not asking for perfection, here.
Why would anyone ever pay the dev's for the privilege of using this current system? It's literally punishment to re-engineer a toon.
To make this clearer: Does the Dev team dislike making money? So why does this system, which is a money maker and has been a money maker LONG before freedom was implemented, NOT WORK WELL?
Well, I really don't like your proposal of primary/one, secondary/two, pool/three. My powers go *all over* the place, and some of them don't come out onto the board at all. Tadaaaaaa, not everything has a prime solution!
/cleartray gets us both to the same starting point, and there doesn't need to be any extra coding done; it already exists.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Much like Aggelakis, I don't put my powers in the trays that way. I don't even put them in the trays in the order I take them.|
Originally Posted by mauk2
PRIMARY POWERS IN TRAY ONE. SECONDARY POWERS IN TRAY TWO. POOLS IN TRAY THREE. |
I can't support your suggestion that they should code it this way. It would be as much work for me as the current system is.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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I wasn't TELLING YOU about /cleartray... |
Originally Posted by mauk2
(sigh)
I did not ask about the cleartray. Amazingly enough, /cleartray does not address this issue in the slightest, nor does it make it any better that I have to hand-pick and place every damn power I wish to have any interactive control over. PRIMARY POWERS IN TRAY ONE. SECONDARY POWERS IN TRAY TWO. POOLS IN TRAY THREE. Any leftovers, ehn, I'm not asking for perfection, here. Why would anyone ever pay the dev's for the privilege of using this current system? It's literally punishment to re-engineer a toon. To make this clearer: Does the Dev team dislike making money? So why does this system, which is a money maker and has been a money maker LONG before freedom was implemented, NOT WORK WELL? |
I was just saying that while respecs make a mess of your tray(s), I'm glad we at least have the "/cleartray" command. It gives a clean start. Should the Dev's make any sort of "tray effort", I'd love to seem them find away that we can save the current tray layout before "we" start your respec. I know this isn't a new idea, nor even my idea, but I still think it's a great idea.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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I dislike doing respecs.
I mean, really.
While that interface needs a large update in many ways, you know the best, simplest, thing you could do to make this easier?
Allow us to import Mid's builds.
Mid's already exports a nice simple text block. It should be simple enough to use that information to pick all the powers in the proper order and place the slots.
No, I would not expect to actually place the IO's as well, but simply removing that onerous phase of picking a power, flipping over to the mid's, checking the order, picking a power, ad nauseum, followed by the even more tedious 'where did this slot go?' phase, would help enormously.
And this is good business as well: People can BUY respecs. Why are you making your product, which you charge money for, difficult to use?
Other suggestions: Place entire IO sets with a single action. If I'm slotting six pieces of obliteration in 3 different powers, it can get tedious sorting out which piece goes where, and I'm always worried about placing something over top of something else and wiping it out.
Can there be a system where you can place entire sets? IE, "Slot this power with every piece of Crushing Impact which I currently have." This would make it much better in my opinion.
Lastly: Is there any way to simply make the field where the old enhancement's show up big enough to display ALL of them?
Anyway, just my thoughts, do as you will.