I'm pretty sure that's in contrast with data from City of Data. I'm not totally sure which to trust, but for most of this trial stuff, the info from CoD has been solid. The only usual issues with CoD are being up to date. The issues with data in the game usually relate to problems with Real Numbers being able to represent stuff correctly. I know it usually handles irresistible effects correctly, so I'm just not sure.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
The data in City of Data comes from me, and I only sent them the I23 data last night. I think they're still using the last build I sent them, which was 2240.201204160439.1 (I22) on May 1. Perhaps you were misinterpreting it. On the CoD Hammer of Justice and Energy Smash, only the Knockdown is unresistable. On Beam Sweep only the damage debuff is unresistable. The only unresistable damage comes from the Flow Lightning. You can check again once they update it with my recent data.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
Experience says that the damage on his attacks is resistable, except for Flow Lightning.
I would summarise tactics for this one as:
-As much -res as you can get
-As much +dmg as you can get (and to a lesser extent recharge buffs too)
-Not too much smash/lethal dmg
-4 or 5 Ultimates
-Don't die
-And most importantly, a league leader who know what they are doing and a league that can follow the plan 
Octavian Vanguard
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Quote:
Don't forget everyone has to MOVE when the air crackles. Even the main Tanker (if there is one) has to move (preferably on ground so Tyrant doesn't take to the air).|
Originally Posted by OV_ohms
Experience says that the damage on his attacks is resistable, except for Flow Lightning.
I would summarise tactics for this one as: -As much -res as you can get -As much +dmg as you can get (and to a lesser extent recharge buffs too) -Not too much smash/lethal dmg -4 or 5 Ultimates -Don't die -And most importantly, a league leader who know what they are doing and a league that can follow the plan |
Also, if gunning for the RHW, Lore Pets will help due to their damage when Tyrant's regen starts boosting at low HP - in many ways, they can output as much or more DPS than player characters can.
Ideon's Paragonwiki page
Member of Paragon/Rogue Knights
Arc: 60092 - Supa Rumble in the Park
"Keep living the dream, and never let any jerk tell you what to do."
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Quote:
My experience with Magi says when the air crackles, start moving away from Tyrant and in a direction where no other players are, and keep moving until the lighting strikes. When it strikes, because you're moving you'll likely take only one tick of damage. Because you're moving in a direction where no other players are in front of you, you're not likely to move out of one lightning burst and right into another one. Once the lighting strikes and you're definitely not in it, its safe to stop and take stock of what is where, and move back towards tyrant to engage him moving around the lightning pillars as you do.|
Originally Posted by Ideon
Don't forget everyone has to MOVE when the air crackles. Even the main Tanker (if there is one) has to move (preferably on ground so Tyrant doesn't take to the air).
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Its similar to the strategy I recommended for Avoids the Green Stuff: don't try to move away from the death patches, try to move towards a spot you know there aren't going to be any, and keep moving until you're sure you aren't in one yourself.
Something to note is the fact that if everyone moves generally away from Tyrant, no one can possibly cross the path of another player. If some players move away, and some move sideways around the bowl, someone moving away from Tyrant when the lightning strikes could, if they are partially blinded by the lightning glare, run right into another lightning pillar that appears in front of them as another player crosses their path. That could kill them before they realize what happened.
I haven't been on any hard way runs yet, so this is just what my thoughts are on that particular issue until I see some successful hard way runs.
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I just thought of something...
What if lots of people hit him with Stuns that included Absolute Amazement: Chance For To Hit Debuff. That's a 33% chance to give an UNRESISTABLE 7.5% ToHit debuff for 10.25 seconds. As far as I can see, that's the only unresistable granted debuff in the game. I think that would work on him. I tried it in Cosmic Burst against a target dummy in RWZ while using a Power Analyzer mk III to check the stats, and I frequently saw the debuff. In fact I often saw it double stacked for 15% ToHit debuff. And it obviously ignores the level difference because the dummy is level 35 but my Rad/Rad Def is 50. Radiation Infection gave it a -131.63% ToHit debuff because it is level adjusted.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
Quote:
Interesting. Let's think that through. Tyrant will be either +5 or +6 during a hard way run (depending on whether Ultimates are used). He'll have 1.5 accuracy for being an AV, and 1.5 accuracy for being +5 or higher, and +5% tohit if he's +6. I believe AA tohit debuff has a maximum stacking limit of 10, so that's -75% tohit maximum.|
Originally Posted by TopDoc
I just thought of something...
What if lots of people hit him with Stuns that included Absolute Amazement: Chance For To Hit Debuff. That's a 33% chance to give an UNRESISTABLE 7.5% ToHit debuff for 10.25 seconds. As far as I can see, that's the only unresistable granted debuff in the game. I think that would work on him. I tried it in Cosmic Burst against a target dummy in RWZ while using a Power Analyzer mk III to check the stats, and I frequently saw the debuff. In fact I often saw it double stacked for 15% ToHit debuff. And it obviously ignores the level difference because the dummy is level 35 but my Rad/Rad Def is 50. Radiation Infection gave it a -131.63% ToHit debuff because it is level adjusted. |
That will floor Tyrant, which means his overall chance to hit the player will bottom out at 5% * 1.5 * 1.5 = 11.25%. Hammer of Justice has 1.2 accuracy, so it bottoms out at 13.5%**. That's pretty good, but it presumes Tyrant is at or below 80% tohit. He'll intrinsically have 69% base tohit from being a Praetorian AV and +6, or 64% if he is +5. I believe he will gain +5% tohit for each of his pets that Power of Tartarus absorbs.
So for this to work, assuming a reasonable hard way run uses ultimates, you have to make sure Tyrant doesn't stack more than 3 tartarus buffs, and they refresh stack. Once he gets more than three he'll start coming off the floor, assuming all other tohit debuffs are negligible (which in this case they probably are).
I'll admit this is an interesting idea that didn't occur to me, but given this seems to be a high order effort for a net result can be replicated by bubbles or a pair of large lucks is there a tactically significant advantage to attempting this that I'm overlooking?
** Maybe. Praetorian AVs seem to uniquely have a higher than 1.0 base accuracy; 1.1 in fact. I've not tested this yet, but I suspect that means they get an intrinsic 1.1x accuracy factor on top of all others equivalent to player slotting, which means Hammer of Justice may bottom out at 14.85% tohit.
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Wow, way to go, Virtue. Wish I'd been on some of those successful attempts!
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
Quote:
My understanding is that he resists all damage equally so typed damage isn't important... bring as much of whatever you got as you can. I think the important thing is that it should be mostly single target, IE stalkers, blasters, and scrappers, of course assuming that single target damage generally is better for a single target as AoEs and cones are better net damage only when there are multiple enemies being damaged.|
Originally Posted by OV_ohms
Experience says that the damage on his attacks is resistable, except for Flow Lightning.
I would summarise tactics for this one as: -As much -res as you can get -As much +dmg as you can get (and to a lesser extent recharge buffs too) -Not too much smash/lethal dmg -4 or 5 Ultimates -Don't die -And most importantly, a league leader who know what they are doing and a league that can follow the plan |
Bump it to 6 ultimate insps as it is a 20 min battle and they only last for 3 mins. That still gives you no play if you are defeated.
The last point I couldn't agree more, especially the listening part. The important thing is that no two league leaders will run it the same and even though you might be on your 10th run, pay attention to directions even if you disagree. The league leader may have a trick or two up their sleeve that you aren't aware of and if you operate outside of the instruction, you may be doing more harm than good. I've run several tries and have a way that I like to do it. However, when I'm on someone else's run, I try to be quiet and read closely so that I can give that league leader the best chance of their plan being successful, regardless of what I think. It is no small task to get 24 people together and work as a group and each league leader deserves your attention if you are truly interested in getting the badge. If you don't like the way it is being run, learn from it, offer opinions after the fact and/or run your own. There is not a right way to run this thing.
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Quote:
That goes against the info posted by TopDoc above:|
Originally Posted by Dogma
My understanding is that he resists all damage equally so typed damage isn't important... bring as much of whatever you got as you can. I think the important thing is that it should be mostly single target, IE stalkers, blasters, and scrappers, of course assuming that single target damage generally is better for a single target as AoEs and cones are better net damage only when there are multiple enemies being damaged.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TopDoc
For resistances he had Unyielding and Resist Elements or Resist Energies which gave him around 19% Resistance to most things. He had 0% Psi Resist. Sometimes Unyielding would double stack for another 9% or so. Bruising and Achilles Heel are fully effective at 20% because of the way they work, but other resistance debuffs were resisted as usual due to the level difference. At +6 most debuffs are only 16% (about 1/6) effective. Reactive Interface was 0.38% with no lights.
Below 50% HP he gets Temp Invulnerability which adds 50% Smashing/Lethal Resistance for a total of around 70%. He resists Smashing/Lethal Resistance debuffs by that much as well. With a lot of stacked debuffs, he was at -62% Psi Resistance, -20% Fire/Cold/Energy/Neg/Toxic, but +50% Smashing/Lethal. |
Octavian Vanguard
@ohmsEU and @ohms 2
Badging character: Bimble on the Union server, Badgehunter.com and City Info Tracker.
Quote:
.|
Originally Posted by TopDoc
I just thought of something...
What if lots of people hit him with Stuns that included Absolute Amazement: Chance For To Hit Debuff. That's a 33% chance to give an UNRESISTABLE 7.5% ToHit debuff for 10.25 seconds. As far as I can see, that's the only unresistable granted debuff in the game. I think that would work on him. I tried it in Cosmic Burst against a target dummy in RWZ while using a Power Analyzer mk III to check the stats, and I frequently saw the debuff. In fact I often saw it double stacked for 15% ToHit debuff. And it obviously ignores the level difference because the dummy is level 35 but my Rad/Rad Def is 50. Radiation Infection gave it a -131.63% ToHit debuff because it is level adjusted. |
Flash Arrow from the Trick Arrow power set also has an unresistable to hit debuff.
_________
@Inquisitor
Quote:
Its unresistable, but its not granted. Topdoc was thinking about debuffs that are delivered through grantpowers, because with those the target is given a power that causes it to debuff itself, like Bruising's resistance debuff.|
Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid
.
Flash Arrow from the Trick Arrow power set also has an unresistable to hit debuff. |
This is significant because when the target debuffs itself, for obvious reasons the purple patch doesn't apply. Trick Arrow's unresistable tohit debuff would be unresisted, but still decreased by being delivered by an attacker -5 or -6 to the target by the purple patch to between 30% and 15% of its strength.
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I agree with this 10x fold. Unless the league leader is asking for help or suggestions, please keep the chatter and suggestions to a minimum while they're giving the instructions. After they've said their peace (or is it piece?) then offer tips and suggestions. It becomes way too confusing when you have 5 or 6 people who think they know the best way to handle things. I'm sure the intentions are well enough, but as they say, too many chefs spoil the soup.|
Originally Posted by Dogma
The last point I couldn't agree more, especially the listening part. The important thing is that no two league leaders will run it the same and even though you might be on your 10th run, pay attention to directions even if you disagree. The league leader may have a trick or two up their sleeve that you aren't aware of and if you operate outside of the instruction, you may be doing more harm than good. I've run several tries and have a way that I like to do it. However, when I'm on someone else's run, I try to be quiet and read closely so that I can give that league leader the best chance of their plan being successful, regardless of what I think. It is no small task to get 24 people together and work as a group and each league leader deserves your attention if you are truly interested in getting the badge. If you don't like the way it is being run, learn from it, offer opinions after the fact and/or run your own. There is not a right way to run this thing.
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Also, I think the importance of the Ultimate inspirations are understated. I may start suggesting to people that they should bring at least 8 (You can always re-sell the ones you don't use or save them for another run). Deaths can randomly and accidentally happen and not having enough Ultimates to finish the battle is an issue. We've gotten so close on recent runs and I think, in part, why we haven't been able to get those last few HP of his down is that people have run out of Ultimates, or are not realizing it's time to refresh.
As we get more Incarnate slots unlocked, I'm sure this part of the trial will get easier, but in the interim, for the runs to succeed, folks need to bring their A game.
On a side note, it would be interesting to see how a league of 24 Corruptors would do for this badge.
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| Home Server: Virtue |
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We've finally got this down on Freedom. having everyone have 7 ultimates, at least 2 leadership powers, non smashing/lethal lores (I had drones). Achilles heel and fury of the gladiator -res. It's sad that I think i overprepared for this cause once we got to Tyrant, he died in under 3 minutes.
Quote:
Well, on virtue a league of 23 Corruptors and 1 scrapper just got it. Pretty darn well would be my answer. :-)
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Originally Posted by SolarSentai
On a side note, it would be interesting to see how a league of 24 Corruptors would do for this badge.
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While I would hardly qualify myself as an expert at this, after a successful run on Champion I have a few thoughts/tips.
We were able to get the badge with a league that wasn't necessarily loaded with debuffers, Kins, Corruptors or any AT/power set in particular. For support we had 1 Kin, 2 Rads, 2 Colds (one of which was a Corruptor), 2 Force Fielders and an Emp. Most people signed up on their badge toons.
Here was our league (empty spot was Marut FF/Rad Defender):
For a more detailed league breakdown, including Lore pets selection and other Incarnate powers, see this post.
Our strategy:
We did 2 runs total towards this badge. The first run was a practice where no Ultimates were used. This was done to give people a chance to practice evading the lightning, maintaining DPS and get an overall feel for the plan. We hit the wall at around 40% on the practice run. On the second run we brought out all the toys. We saved Ultimates until the 50% mark and ended up using 2 total.
Overall, I believe the following factors were the largest contributors to our success:
Nothing radically different than what others have posted thus far, but figured I'd share.
For a more detailed league breakdown, including Lore pets selection and other Incarnate powers, see this post.
Our strategy:
- Group tightly on Tyrant so that everyone stays buffed. All of his attacks can miss (with the exception of Flow Lightning which is auto hit) so a good mix of Barrier and Rebirth makes it relatively easy for all characters to fight in melee range of him, regardless of AT.
- As soon as the "Air Crackles Around Tyrant" warning appears, everyone should move away from him immediately. We had someone call out the warning in league chat as well. You don't need to run half way across the map, just far enough away so that the lightning does not spawn around Tyrant. If you're ranged, you should be at a distance where you can still attack him. If you're melee, use your Judgement (provided it's ranged) as you jump away. If all is clear, run back in as soon as possible.
- Summon Lore pets when you "hit the wall" (around 30%).
- Save Hybrids for when you hit the wall as well. Everyone on our league had either Assault or Support.
- Keep 2 things monitored from your Combat Attributes: Level Shift (to help you time when to use the next Ultimate) and Damage Bonus (to make sure you are capped from the wall onward, popping red inspirations as needed).
- Keep up the good work and take him out. If a few minutes go by and no progress is made, take the lights out and go for The Hard Way.
We did 2 runs total towards this badge. The first run was a practice where no Ultimates were used. This was done to give people a chance to practice evading the lightning, maintaining DPS and get an overall feel for the plan. We hit the wall at around 40% on the practice run. On the second run we brought out all the toys. We saved Ultimates until the 50% mark and ended up using 2 total.
Overall, I believe the following factors were the largest contributors to our success:
- Everyone was +3 and had all of their Incarnate powers slotted.
- The practice run really seemed to help. It helped us estimate our DPS and allowed us to make adjustments before the real run.
- Everyone listened exceptionally well.
Nothing radically different than what others have posted thus far, but figured I'd share.
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Amygdala's Guide to the Cathedral of Pain Trial
Quote:
Tried 2 regular badge runs of Magi on Triumph tonight with both being hit by this. The second run someone deliberately ignored the league leader's instructions, and they likely won't be invited back to any trial badge runs when we find the person(s). Thankfully someone had a demorecord.
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Originally Posted by SolarSentai
I agree with this 10x fold. Unless the league leader is asking for help or suggestions, please keep the chatter and suggestions to a minimum while they're giving the instructions. After they've said their peace (or is it piece?) then offer tips and suggestions. It becomes way too confusing when you have 5 or 6 people who think they know the best way to handle things. I'm sure the intentions are well enough, but as they say, too many chefs spoil the soup.
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Quote:
Its hard to overestimate. On a RHW run, a league running Ultimate generates at least twice as much offense as one that doesn't if not substantially more (everyone's offense is literally doubled against Tyrant, and then on top of that everyone's resistance debuff strength is also doubled for those debuffing Tyrant - a league could conceivably triple their output by everyone running Ultimate relative to everyone not running them).
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Originally Posted by SolarSentai
Also, I think the importance of the Ultimate inspirations are understated.
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And that 2nd time, it was closer to 2:30, wasn't it?|
Originally Posted by Yat Man
We've finally got this down on Freedom. having everyone have 7 ultimates, at least 2 leadership powers, non smashing/lethal lores (I had drones). Achilles heel and fury of the gladiator -res. It's sad that I think i overprepared for this cause once we got to Tyrant, he died in under 3 minutes.
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If anyone wants to see the demo files, I can post 'em up, just PM me. Yat Man's RHW runs are very much "PAPA SPANK" on Tyrant.
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Has anyone successfully met this badge requirements since the pet nerf (lore pets do not receive level shift via lights) and/or the lights nerf (hover/fly prevents damage from lightning)?
We've been trying for this badge on Pinnacle for over a month with regular runs with top-notch, well slotted incarnates. We've gotten Tyrant into the upper 20's in terms of health a few times, but lately only mid to lower 30s. Is this badge achievable given the current game settings?
Yep, we did two runs back to back on Union last week, led by @Kisana as usual
I can't stress enough how important it is for everyone to have Ultimates, at least 5 of them. Other than that bring lots of -res and as many corruptors as you can for the Scourge.
Octavian Vanguard
@ohmsEU and @ohms 2
Badging character: Bimble on the Union server, Badgehunter.com and City Info Tracker.
Quote:
The pet change/fix has no effect at all on TRHW, as if you're taking out lights for level shifts, you're not going to get TRHW.|
Originally Posted by CatAtomic
Has anyone successfully met this badge requirements since the pet nerf (lore pets do not receive level shift via lights) and/or the lights nerf (hover/fly prevents damage from lightning)?
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Flying to avoid the lightning? Sounds like an exploit that got fixed. Just learn to spot the warning and run away...
Bring -resist debuff. LOTS of -resist. Sonic blast defenders, Sonic Resonance, sleet, etc. etc.
Also, bring enough Kineticists to have everyone damage capped. Stay in tight to Tyrant for buffs and heals, and hurt him as hard as you can.
A mix of support/Buff sets for +resist, +defence and healing is also needed.
As Ohms said, Ultimate inspirations are NOT optional. Everyone should have one active at all times during the Tyrant fight, and 5 or 6 is enough so that if you DO faceplant, you've got a spare.
Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
Quote:
I don't believe flying ever avoided the lightning -- most of my characters fly, and I routinely use [Hover] during this phase. I was damaged anytime I didn't leave the lightning area right from the beginning.
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Originally Posted by Canine
Flying to avoid the lightning? Sounds like an exploit that got fixed.
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Leader of Legion of Valor/Fallen Legion (Victory server)
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When I look at [Hammer of Justice] or [Beam Sweep] in game, they don't say that the damage is unresistable. And based on the size of those effects and the fact that it says Tyrant up top, I'm guessing those are the Tyrant trial versions of the powers.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304