I have not been monitoring the level shift on champion, but on other servers have not ever seen it change. Of course, have not come close to actually defeating Tyrant. Also the regen Tyrant gets from the Light seems huge.
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As far as I understand it, the lights aren't supposed to affect his regen. |
Originally Posted by ResplendentMs
I have not been monitoring the level shift on champion, but on other servers have not ever seen it change. Of course, have not come close to actually defeating Tyrant. Also the regen Tyrant gets from the Light seems huge.
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From Arbiter Hawk:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arbiter Hawk
Tyrant's Regeneration is tied only to his health, not to the number of Light of the Well which remain alive. As Tyrant's health goes down, his regeneration goes up, in accordance with the bar displayed in the UI for Tyrant's "Favor of the Well".
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Leader of Renaissance de la Veritas
Moderator of ChampioNexus
Amygdala's Guide to the Cathedral of Pain Trial
I noticed at times that I hit +9 the guards that spawn during the Tyrant fight were green to me. The UI says to make sure they do not reach Tyrant during the fight. Maybe take those out ASAP?
Hmm, since Tyrant is powering himself by "absorbing souls," do you think he could be absorbing any allies that die near him?
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From Arbiter Hawk's article at Massively: |
Originally Posted by gameboy1234
Hmm, since Tyrant is powering himself by "absorbing souls," do you think he could be absorbing any allies that die near him?
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We built Tyrant's powers as numerous, flashy, and hard hitting, and his incarnate power of Tartarus gives him control of a character's soul, should one of his powers defeat that character! (What control of a character's soul means here is that a defeated character needs to fight his or her way out of an astral limbo -- otherwise Tyrant tries to use that soul as fuel.)
I talked about this with Amy when the article came out. He probably gets some buff from people bein' in the "hospital".
To limit it, I would potentially suggest both flavors of Rebirth to keep people from dyin', or if they do, have the Barrier with two ally rez to keep'em from havin' to go to the "hospital".
"Champion (the Community Server... or GTFO) is like a small town where everyone knows each other's names, for better or worse." -kojirodensetsu.
"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." - Maslow's Hammer
You and Amygdala are absolutely correct. Tyrant does indeed get a buff from people using the hospital. It's worth noting that the temp power Revival (self rez power) is not greyed out during the trial - and it makes you untouchable for a fraction of a second. (long enough to retoggle I've found)
As Niqodemus mentioned, in the small writing of the ui it does mention to keep the olympian guards from Tyrant - and that is a perfect excuse to use judgement. 
The hard part of this trial is countering the regen that favor of the well gives him. The only real tools we have are -regen and dps.
You folks are plenty smart enough to figure that out already.
The challenge comes in
1) announcing when lights are going to spawn consistently before they spawn. (for some reason, people can see chat easier than the info in the ui.)
2.) announcing when the air is crackling for those that were out of the warning area dealing with lights, coming back from the taboo hospital, etc.
3.) people actually avoiding the crackle, and avoiding defeat to maximize the damage and the -regen.
Well, you guys are smart enough to figure that out too.
Perhaps you can find someone with surveillance to take a screenie of his attributes. I haven't seen them yet, but a friend tells me his base regen is 470 - but when his hp hits 50, it boosts up to 750.
Also, it seems getting him to 50 is not that tough - maybe try forgoing the lights until he hits 50. Haven't tried that yet, but seems his 100% to 50% is marshmallow - but his 50% to mini-tyrant % is pretty tough.
Oh - I haven't done this yet, but am going to log in and do it - It would be good to use a macro or bind to facilitate using of the quill instead of a mouse click - as for several issues, some folks have a hard time finding their cursor. (Me, for one)
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
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I'm still not 100% sure about this. What lead me to believe this might be happening was the section Cobalt quoted and what was written in the Wiki article. However, it seems someone made an edit only recently and specifically changed that part. |
Originally Posted by Ukaserex
You and Amygdala are absolutely correct. Tyrant does indeed get a buff from people using the hospital. It's worth noting that the temp power Revival (self rez power) is not greyed out during the trial - and it makes you untouchable for a fraction of a second. (long enough to retoggle I've found)
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Before:
"Once Tyrant is below 50% health, a bar appears showing his "Favor of the Well", a number which directly affects his regeneration. If defeated players retreat to the hospital when Tyrant is below 50% health, it increases his Favor, granting him a regeneration buff."
After:
"Once Tyrant is below 50% health, a bar appears showing his "Favor of the Well", a number which directly affects his regeneration. Favor of the Well will increase by two points for every % of his MaxHP that Tyrant drops below 50. Similarly, Favor of the Well decreases by two points for every %MaxHP that Tyrant regenerates."
The fact it was edited out raises some questions for me about the accuracy of the information.
It's also worth noting that last night we ran 2 trials back to back with virtually the same league. The league leader specifically told people to stay out of the hospital. The first trial succeeded while the second failed. It was unclear how much of an influence staying out of the hospital had on his regen.
I have also read elsewhere on the forums that the level shift buff you get from the lights is called [Notice of the Well]. It says that it caps at 16 people. This would explain why on a 24 man league only some people were getting the shifts. However, I tested a 16 man league and the shifts were still highly variable. Overall it did not seem to make a difference. It was mentioned that perhaps pets are counting against the cap, but I'm fairly certain we didn't have any pets out at the time.
Other people have suggested that the buff is limited to the team of someone who took a light out. This has not been true for any of the trials that I've done. I've specifically spread out people dedicated to the lights across the 3 teams. Heck, I've even not gotten shifts after taking one out myself. Teams do not seem to influence this bug at all.
As far as I can tell, it's random who gets shifted and who does not, the length of time you might get shifted, etc.
Leader of Renaissance de la Veritas
Moderator of ChampioNexus
Amygdala's Guide to the Cathedral of Pain Trial
I'm considering trying to save up a bunch of the level shift inspiration if level shifting is so important to this.
If we get a sizeable amount of them, that's probably the key to The Hard Way and The Really Hard Way if all the lights do is give level shifts.
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Those crazy Brits on Union got Really Hard Way using Diamagnetic, Ultimates, Longbow pets, Rebirth and a lot of focus.|
Originally Posted by ComixGeek
I'm considering trying to save up a bunch of the level shift inspiration if level shifting is so important to this.
If we get a sizeable amount of them, that's probably the key to The Hard Way and The Really Hard Way if all the lights do is give level shifts. |
I had Level Shifts on me constantly last night but sadly between going from Lights to Tyrant wasn't doing much to his HP.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
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[Team] Nyctalop: Have you noticed any change to Tyrant's Regen if people hospital?
[Repeat Offenders]Reverend Irreverent: {Tinder Harmony, 50, fire/sonic}: if this rsf doesnt kick off soon ill join ya Bombur
[Team] Miss Silltoe: definitely
(On Freedom)
Anecdotal but it seems another group has had this issue.
Would be nice to get a veat or someone with the Temp ANalyzer to monitor his Regen when people die.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
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Quote:
I cannot say exactly what the buff is - but, please take a moment to read this: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05...-from-the-mag/|
Originally Posted by Amygdala
I'm still not 100% sure about this. What lead me to believe this might be happening was the section Cobalt quoted and what was written in the Wiki article. However, it seems someone made an edit only recently and specifically changed that part.
Before: "Once Tyrant is below 50% health, a bar appears showing his "Favor of the Well", a number which directly affects his regeneration. If defeated players retreat to the hospital when Tyrant is below 50% health, it increases his Favor, granting him a regeneration buff." After: "Once Tyrant is below 50% health, a bar appears showing his "Favor of the Well", a number which directly affects his regeneration. Favor of the Well will increase by two points for every % of his MaxHP that Tyrant drops below 50. Similarly, Favor of the Well decreases by two points for every %MaxHP that Tyrant regenerates." The fact it was edited out raises some questions for me about the accuracy of the information. It's also worth noting that last night we ran 2 trials back to back with virtually the same league. The league leader specifically told people to stay out of the hospital. The first trial succeeded while the second failed. It was unclear how much of an influence staying out of the hospital had on his regen. I have also read elsewhere on the forums that the level shift buff you get from the lights is called [Notice of the Well]. It says that it caps at 16 people. This would explain why on a 24 man league only some people were getting the shifts. However, I tested a 16 man league and the shifts were still highly variable. Overall it did not seem to make a difference. It was mentioned that perhaps pets are counting against the cap, but I'm fairly certain we didn't have any pets out at the time. Other people have suggested that the buff is limited to the team of someone who took a light out. This has not been true for any of the trials that I've done. I've specifically spread out people dedicated to the lights across the 3 teams. Heck, I've even not gotten shifts after taking one out myself. Teams do not seem to influence this bug at all. As far as I can tell, it's random who gets shifted and who does not, the length of time you might get shifted, etc. |
Within the article, here's a quote.
Quote:
| (What control of a character's soul means here is that a defeated character needs to fight his or her way out of an astral limbo -- otherwise Tyrant tries to use that soul as fuel.) |
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
Arbiter Hawk's official word on the subject.
Summary:
1. The level shifts have a target cap of 16. This will be fixed in an upcoming patch.
2. Tyrant can drain power from Olympian Guards, gaining extra to-hit and smashing damage.
3. Dying and hosping has no effect on Tyrant.
Heh, don't I feel stupid. The same article that Cobalt linked to was the one I was looking at - but I thought it was different because Cobalt's link said Arbiter Hawk (who, for all I know may be the Associate Designer who made the comment in the article.)
Thanks for the correction, Placta
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
Quote:
Up until I read Hawk's post, I wasn't sure one way or the other whether Tyrant gained anything from dead/hospitaled characters. The "Your soul will be consumed if defeated" bit in the event monitor (which I guess refers to being sent to limbo until you can defeat the EB portal to come back) sure suggests he gains power from killing characters.|
Originally Posted by Ukaserex
Heh, don't I feel stupid. The same article that Cobalt linked to was the one I was looking at - but I thought it was different because Cobalt's link said Arbiter Hawk (who, for all I know may be the Associate Designer who made the comment in the article.)
Thanks for the correction, Placta |
In other words, don't feel stupid; it was a valid theory
(And yes, Jeff Hamilton is Arbiter Hawk.)
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I'm thrilled to have confirmation of this.
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Originally Posted by Placta
Arbiter Hawk's official word on the subject.
Summary: 1. The level shifts have a target cap of 16. This will be fixed in an upcoming patch. 2. Tyrant can drain power from Olympian Guards, gaining extra to-hit and smashing damage. 3. Dying and hosping has no effect on Tyrant. |
Leader of Renaissance de la Veritas
Moderator of ChampioNexus
Amygdala's Guide to the Cathedral of Pain Trial
What happens if we kill the Olympian Guard? Does Tyrant still get the buff?
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My interpretation is that if Tyrant is able to consume the Guard, he is able to be buffed from it. Should we destroy them, he is unable to receive the buff. This plays into the "keep the Guards away" mention in the Full-size League UI.|
Originally Posted by ResplendentMs
What happens if we kill the Olympian Guard? Does Tyrant still get the buff?
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So, Amy... despite being invisible... how does it feel to be correct?
Thank you, Champion.
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Yeah, a later post addressed this:|
Originally Posted by ResplendentMs
What happens if we kill the Olympian Guard? Does Tyrant still get the buff?
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1. The power that kills the Olympian Guards has a range of 60 feet.
2. Every time he kills an Olympian Guard, the buff gets stronger and the timer resets.
3. Killing an Olympian Guard yourself denies him the buff.
4. The Olympian Guards stop spawning when he reaches 40% health.
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Also, having run a couple smaller-league Magisterium trials with no pets during the final fight, the difference is huge and noticeable. Tyrant's actually pretty easy.
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Does anyone else find this sad that people need to be told in small font chat text, rather than read it as it happens in big, red text that flashes up right in the middle of the screen? What exactly are people looking at while they play?|
1) announcing when lights are going to spawn consistently before they spawn. (for some reason, people can see chat easier than the info in the ui.) 2.) announcing when the air is crackling for those that were out of the warning area dealing with lights, coming back from the taboo hospital, etc. |
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| I have noticed on several occasions that, despite no lights present, I was still at +3 only. The picture in this post clearly depicts this issue. |
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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It doesn't announce the crackly air over the entire map. I've often seen no warning when I've been taking out a Light. And no, I didn't just miss it.|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
Does anyone else find this sad that people need to be told in small font chat text, rather than read it as it happens in big, red text that flashes up right in the middle of the screen? What exactly are people looking at while they play?
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I've notice similar behavior with Marauder's Nova Fist; I have trouble with too often running into melee only to get slammed by it. Most of the time this happens right after he jumps.
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| The way I read the text you quoted, you don't get level shifted just because there are no lights. You earn shifts as lights are defeated. I've only seen 3 or 4 active at one time, so unless the shift lasts long enough to stack them through several cycles of light, you shouldn't always see more than a +4 or +5. I don't remember seeing all 6 lights active in one cycle, but I could be wrong. They seem to spawn a couple at a time, rather than the whole lot at once, like the portals for Black Swan. |
Quote:
In this case no lights on the map means they have all been defeated. As Placta pointed out there are 6 lights every cycle and they spawn all at once according to a timer. It shows you the number of lights remaining over the total number of lights in your trial UI. In the picture I posted it's 0/6 because at that point, all lights have been taken out. If they were WAI according to Arbiter Hawk's quote, this means everyone in the league should receive a total of 6 level shifts.
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Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
The way I read the text you quoted, you don't get level shifted just because there are no lights. You earn shifts as lights are defeated. I've only seen 3 or 4 active at one time, so unless the shift lasts long enough to stack them through several cycles of light, you shouldn't always see more than a +4 or +5. I don't remember seeing all 6 lights active in one cycle, but I could be wrong. They seem to spawn a couple at a time, rather than the whole lot at once, like the portals for Black Swan.
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Leader of Renaissance de la Veritas
Moderator of ChampioNexus
Amygdala's Guide to the Cathedral of Pain Trial
I ran a RHW attempt on Victory yesterday. We were swimming in Ultimates, and Super Reds, Longbow pets, uber -regen and -hp, and we still couldn't get Tyrant under 29-30%. This is going to be a very difficult badge to get, but it is attainable, as I understand a league on Union has been successful.
I'll be joining another Victory league tomorrow night, and can report back on any best practices.
Q. Just wondering Posi, where are the new dance emotes we were told would come with GR?
A. Positron: Whoops, my bad.
1387 badges, and counting
Quote:
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Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
Does anyone else find this sad that people need to be told in small font chat text, rather than read it as it happens in big, red text that flashes up right in the middle of the screen? What exactly are people looking at while they play?
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Sad? no. When leading, there are tons of stuff to take note of - Most of it is in the trial UI - and the rest is playing your character like everyone else.
Most will simply make a bind and mash it - but some attacks have a relatively long activation/animation time - so when we see the lights are 9 seconds from respawning -we still want to get our big attack in before the level shift goes away, so we end up warning about the lights at 3 seconds or 1 second left.
Players that aren't leading have the same issues -but when the leader gives the warning, it comes with that slight audible sound -so the player can quickly look at the chat screen and see the warning - sometimes too late because they were trying to get their big attack in.
You also have to realize that CoH has an incredibly diverse playerbase. Some are 10 year old kids, and some are incredibly ancient, like Cobalt and myself. Cobalt's reflexes are super fast, whereas mine - they are just ever so slightly better than mediocre.
Not to mention some people have smaller monitors and haven't learned that they can resize all the windows on their UI to make it seem like they have more screen.
Some have a bit of lag from a buggy isp, and some just have garbage computers - they only see the arm of Tyrant going up for the air crackling until they are already dead. They should upgrade - but why? CoH changed the graphics on us - not like we went and purchased lesser systems. Used to be, 2 gigs was more than enough - but I digress.
So, no, it's not sad. Someone's inability to hit a light is really nothing more than a sign that they are likely having more fun than the rest of us, being immersed in the game. Some call it a form of scrapperlock.
Despite the many reasons why, I would wager that less that .01% of the population fouls up on purpose. Most want the other players to like them so they can team often and easily- so, they try their best to be helpful.
Again, not sad.
And, I know when I'm not leading a trial - particularly on Keyes - warnings on league chat DO help. Not everytime, as I usually stay on top of the UI. But, once out of 5 or 6 oblit beams, it's helpful.
As one who leads from time to time (just not on champion yet -don't think I've earned my stripes yet here) I don't really enjoy making binds and macros to warn people of things, because I might miss them too. We're all human.
What is sad is when I fail to realize that people make mistakes -and despite the temper tantrum I might have, they don't do it on purpose.
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
For anyone having trouble with the bug, I would recommend limiting your leagues to 16 people and to not summon any pets during the final fight with Tyrant. So far this approach has made a noticeable difference and most runs have succeeded a lot faster than previous runs.
Leader of Renaissance de la Veritas
Moderator of ChampioNexus
Amygdala's Guide to the Cathedral of Pain Trial
It appears that the lights may not be functioning properly during the final fight of this trial.
Per Arbiter Hawk:
Leader of Renaissance de la Veritas
Moderator of ChampioNexus
Amygdala's Guide to the Cathedral of Pain Trial