Suggestion: Suggestions Forum
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2012-05-25 10:15 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
You mean something like this? I like the way you think.
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I would like to suggest a forum that directs to this thread that will direct to an open Suggestion forum. Then we can establish a committee to overview said forum and then repost suggestions in the proper Suggestion forum established already.
"You sir, have never been in a hammer fight, that much is clear."
-Blast_Chamber
*yeah, I quoted myself.
I also think it comes down to the fact that many people see the 'Suggestions' section of the forum as a place Suggestions go to die (i.e. be ignored by the dev team as a whole).
The Tanker Changes is an interesting one because it's less about "Tankers need a change and here is my suggestion for it" and more "How, as whole, can the community come up with a reasonable way to improve tankers".
The All Things Character art is a thread started by a Dev, no it does not move to Suggestions, it remains right where it is.
Cheap marketting idea...eh...suggestions are for ways to improve the game, marketting is a seperate entity to game changing suggestions.
Or in other words:
Stop being a grumpy git and let the mods sort things out!
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It would never work.
no.
/unsigned
It would throw forum balance out of whack.
This might work in a perfect world but with limited resources it will never be able to happen.
Why do you want to nerf the General Discussion forum? Maybe there could be some symbol that got attached to a suggestion thread in the General Discussion forum, like a lightbulb or something.
There are already so many forum sections to scroll through and try to keep up with. The community managers should design new forum sections to be passive, always feeding into my brain ideas, so I don't have worry about checking so many sections all the time. If that would be too strong, they could always just make those passive ideas trickle more slowly or be less interesting.
Why is this in the General Discussion section? It belongs in the Suggestion forum!
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What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
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This is what I was going to say!|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Why is this in the General Discussion section? It belongs in the Suggestion forum!
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Now I have nothing else to offer...
Hehe, actually, while I do agree that some people often use this forum for suggestion threads, some of the examples you listed do not fall into that category, in my opinion.
For whatever reasons, there seems to an idea that the Suggestions Forum is for solid, figured-out, suggestions.
Where-as people seem to prefer vague suggestions, seeking further feedback within the General forum'
And then, there are a bunch of people who just want people to see and respond to their posts, so they put anything and everything in the General forum.
@Zethustra
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and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU
I also think it comes down to the fact that many people see the 'Suggestions' section of the forum as a place Suggestions go to die.
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my issue with the tanker thread is that it belongs on the tanker or AT boards - and there are plenty of threads just like it there
When this gets moved to the Suggestions Forum, I will laugh.
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Reason i dont post anything there really as just feels like its one of those sections that gets ignored.
| I also think it comes down to the fact that many people see the 'Suggestions' section of the forum as a place Suggestions go to die (i.e. be ignored by the dev team as a whole). |
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As the OP of this thread, it was posted not primarily as a suggestion, but as a discussion of 1) whether this is something worth pursuing by us, the player base, and 2) if so, how to best go about it.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Cheap marketing idea!
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It also wasn't targeted at the devs or reps, except for the small matter of if this effort were pursued, if they'd be willing to send someone to Los Angeles to film the show. Other than that, it was primarily targeted at players as soliciting ideas for how this could come to pass.
If the devs or reps want to help with the effort, wunderbar! But the intention wasn't to be a suggestion in the sense of, "Hey devs/reps, here's an idea, now go act on it." It was intended to generate discussion. You know, like you might find in a "General Discussions" forum.
To be honest, I don't understand what your beef is. There is overlap between suggestions and discussions. There's a LOT of gray area in posts that boil down to, "Hey, I think this would be a good idea, [what do you all think]?", the latter part of which is sometimes not stated explicitly, but still understood. At least some of the threads you've mentioned (I haven't read them all) seem to fall into this category as well.
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Part of it also emanates from the content police that frequent that section who are glibly condescending, dismissive and outright bitter at times towards an idea that didn't originate from a "known" forumite or one of there friends. |
Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU
I also think it comes down to the fact that many people see the 'Suggestions' section of the forum as a place Suggestions go to die (i.e. be ignored by the dev team as a whole).
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Not every idea submitted is a winner, but with the type of attitude that's more then occasional there who would want to search around for those that might be, not I.
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A bit of history, for those comparatively new to the fora. Keep in mind I'm discussing this from memory, so feel free to correct me if you can locate evidence to the contrary.|
Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU
I also think it comes down to the fact that many people see the 'Suggestions' section of the forum as a place Suggestions go to die (i.e. be ignored by the dev team as a whole).
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At one time (several years ago now), the Suggestion forum received a great deal of traffic and was routinely read by the developers. During one of the many reviews of the fora the OCR people have conducted since the fora began operation, it was decided that the Suggestions forum was not being taken seriously by players. Most responses were hostile and vitriolic, and the mods had to spend a great deal of time maintaining that forum and disciplining forumites for bad behavior there. Ultimately, it was decided to move the Suggestion forum out of the forum subset it had been in, which I think was Development. At the same time, it was (if I recall rightly) publicly admitted by one of the OCR people that the devs no longer read the Suggestions forum and that they, the OCR folks, would no longer pass on suggestions from that forum to the devs. I seem to recall a post along the lines of, "This forum is for you, the players, to daydream about things you would enjoy, not something that has any bearing on development."
This, as much as anything, led to the attitude Dr. Mechano described above. If Suggestions is merely a form of forum game, why post suggestions there? The problem, as others in this thread have recognized, is that people still want to make suggestions and somehow believe, mistakenly, that if they're posted elsewhere, people, i.e. devs, will read them and consider them.
All of this suggests (heh heh) to me that maybe some reconsideration of where Suggestions is and what it's for on the part of the OCR team might be helpful. We, as forum posters, could also do with some direction on how and whether to give suggestions at all. (In my view, forumites believe they should have a much greater impact on development than they do, and than the development team believes they should. This might be a good opportunity to disabuse the forumites of that notion, too.)
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Reroll as Scrappers.
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Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU
"How, as whole, can the community come up with a reasonable way to improve tankers".
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Stop being so defensive |
Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU
"How, as whole, can the community come up with a reasonable way to improve tankers".
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Yeah. But so what? If people as a whole don't like suggestoins, you can't make them like suggestions by changing forums. Wherever suggestions wind up being put most of the time, people will grow accustomed to seeing them there and, if they don't like reading them, ignore them or the subforum itself. Unless you start tricking people by titling the threads deceptively, which is just lame, or deliberately hopping from forum to forum and hiding each suggestion in a new place, like an Easter egg. "I put this into a different forum to generate more views" is kind of abusing everyone else's goodwill. And I say this as someone who has posted numerous suggestions in that forum, and who frequents it.|
Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU
I also think it comes down to the fact that many people see the 'Suggestions' section of the forum as a place Suggestions go to die
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Originally Posted by Redoptic
Part of it also emanates from the content police that frequent that section who are glibly condescending, dismissive and outright bitter at times towards an idea that didn't originate from a "known" forumite or one of there friends.
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Just look around the forum. Good suggestions seem to generate a fair amount of positive response, no matter who they come from. People are quite willing to say, "hey, I support this!" It's never occurred to me to judge a suggestion on anything but its merits as I perceive them. There are a lot of posters whose names I recognize, but none I feel any need to suck up to with false flattery.
Badly-thought-out suggestions, redundant ones, and incomplete ones tend to fare worse. One pattern you'll see often is when someone posts a very commonly-asked-for suggestion, because that person himself/herself hasn't been reading the Suggestions forum regularly, and people are dismissive. Sure, they might be coming across as rude, but it's not a very solid counterargument to say "I want you to pay more attention to me even though I myself haven't been paying attention to everyone else."
People who put in at least some effort to see if their casual inspiration has already been suggested, and discover that it HAS been done to death, typically refrain from posting it. We don't see those threads, of course, which may bias casual readers toward the impression newcomers are dealt with harshly. Without endorsing harsh treatment of anybody, I would argue that the preponderance of threads that garner significant negative responses actually did at least one thing to deserve, if not negativity, at least indifference.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
I think the other thing that may attribute to this is the distinct nosedive in Dev-to-player communication and the 'Marketting Blackouts' that follow things.
Prior to two certain MMOs cropping up, the Devs weren't as tight lipped on upcoming features and I think the Marketting team was...well lets just say non-existent. Now we've lost all of the talkative Devs (Castle, BAB, Noble Savage etc.) have all either left or been moved to the mysterious 'second project'.
Dink is thankfully quite talkative, though I will say not as talkative as Noble Savage use to be IMO.
The Marketting Blackouts also compound this problem where Black Pebble and his team practically suffocate the dev team on what they can and can't say not to mention sometimes being borderline idiotic when it comes to certain things let Powerset or item release dates and them being stuck no matter what (yes I'm still bitter about Staff Fighting taking that freaking long to release when Beast Mastery was a bugged as hell and got released sooner just because marketting said so).
So yes, most of the Devs rarely communicate via the forums anymore and we've taken a noticeable nosedive from the so called Golden Age of Forum Communication a couple of years prior.
Notice I say Forum Communication, the Devs still talk at the Player Summits and on the Ustream chats but, as mentioned, the all great market team still throttle them with what they can and can't say due to fear the competition will somehow pip them to the post on...something...
Also the tanker Changes can belong in General Discussion since it is a General Discussion on what could be done to make Tankers more appealing in the age of Heroic Brutes, it's no a suggestion on how to do those changes but a discussion about the AT as a whole.
So Nya.
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Oh?|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
On every message board I've ever seen, there's always someone who insists that the regulars are hostile to outsiders/newcomers. Usually I don't see it, and I don't really see it here, either.
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| "No. Take your effort to force us to uphold your vision of how we should be playing the game and shove it someplace dark and smelly." |
A suggestion to make Wentworths a gathering place again in the age of /ah.
They sure had that insult coming....
That's only one example I completely stumbled onto, authered by a Forum Cartel.
People who frequent that section love to pile on lulz pvp style when it's determined that something's an unworthy suggestion, determined by whom, you can answer yourself.
And by "unworthy suggestions" I mean how people would get assailed in the past when they would offer up something like Proliferation, they'd be pelted with insinuations that they and their ideas were idiotic, thematically game breaking, and on and on and on and on.
Of course we got proliferation despite all the whining and piling on by some of the "regulars" like MB.
The other poster really put it perfectly it's the place where Suggestions go to die, by and large.
Lets be brutally honest.
When was the last time a Dev or even an OCR even responded to something in the Suggestions forum?
As mentioned above, the move from Development to For Fun shows that it is now the place where people put out ideas for people to daydream about, nobody takes the Suggestion section seriously anymore, not even the Dev team, so what is the point of posting in there?
Badge Earned: Wing Clipper
A real showstopper!
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You know, I often wonder if the devs even bother to check the Suggestion Forum at all.
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Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU
Lets be brutally honest.
When was the last time a Dev or even an OCR even responded to something in the Suggestions forum? As mentioned above, the move from Development to For Fun shows that it is now the place where people put out ideas for people to daydream about, nobody takes the Suggestion section seriously anymore, not even the Dev team, so what is the point of posting in there? |
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They moved it to For Fun because people were thinking that putting a suggestion in there when it was under Development meant that the suggestion would eventually make it into the game, no matter what. And because people were being exceedingly hostile and manipulative and just generally terrible people and it was escalating.|
Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU
As mentioned above, the move from Development to For Fun shows that it is now the place where people put out ideas for people to daydream about, nobody takes the Suggestion section seriously anymore, not even the Dev team, so what is the point of posting in there?
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So (CuppaJo?) put their foot down, moved it, gave out some temp bans, and told everyone to play nice or else. And generally, it's a MUCH better atmosphere in there. Especially since a certain few people stopped posting (voluntarily or otherwise, I don't know).
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Wait, are we the Druish People's Front or the People's Front of Druidia?
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Originally Posted by Blast_Chamber
I would like to suggest a forum that directs to this thread that will direct to an open Suggestion forum. Then we can establish a committee to overview said forum and then repost suggestions in the proper Suggestion forum established already.
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I don't post in the Suggestion Forum because it's hard to read screens like this:
(For the record there are only about 5 people on my Ignore List, but in that forum that's enough.)
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To be fair, I don't think this is all marketing's fault. Some of it is for certain, but there's also the little matter that our devs and reps have over the years been burned numerous times over well-intentioned but not-quite-complete features and updates. In short, I don't blame them. If I were in management there, I would have a similar mandate. Nothing gets said until something is in the can and practically ready to go.
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Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU
I think the other thing that may attribute to this is the distinct nosedive in Dev-to-player communication and the 'Marketting Blackouts' that follow things.
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We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
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hehehe... I used to ignore certain posters (and not GG btw..who I actually have always loved reading)...but I soon came to realize their self importance, lack of reality, and eagerness to win forum pvp was in and of itself another form of entertainment for me.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I don't post in the Suggestion Forum because it's hard to read screens like this:
(For the record there are only about 5 people on my Ignore List, but in that forum that's enough.) |
The only two forums I check consistently are this forum and Suggestions.... I usually get a good daily giggle from some poster with 10k+ posts.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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I don't understand why so many suggested changes to the game show up in this forum. Right now on the front page of this forum we have several that are clearly suggestions:
Dead and new IO suggestions
Tanker Changes Coming
Can haz costumes like these?
and some that are arguably suggestions to marketing/management, if not suggestions to the programmers:
Cheap marketing idea!
Television Commercials
But this isn't unusual, I see a lot of ideas suggested in various forums, almost randomly.
So what I'd like to suggest is that we establish a forum specifically for suggestions and ideas, and direct people there. Maybe it could be All-Access as well, just we can benefit from crowdsourcing everybody's ideas.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog