Martial Arts for Blasters


Adeon Hawkwood

 

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Well, my thought process for Spring Escape was that it would be nice to have an attack that could simultaneously be used to escape a group of attackers. In general, I prefer blaster moves to deal damage whenever possible, although there are exceptions.
I see your logic in this. I was thinking of swapping effects between the two powers (Spring Escape for what I suggested and Disrupt Chi being the damage power. I was thinking/invisioning Spring attack as a utility power (KD/Stun/Placate) and maybe light to minor damage, while disrupt chi should still keep its -res and maybe a lower level mag of stun but the damage should also minor to moderate in the damage category.

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Like this one. It could, although my worry would be that anything other than trivial damage would cause the devs to think the recharge should be higher. I would rather it be available more often than do damage and be available less often. As a utility power (with -res and stun) its value would be decreased by being available less often, even if it did actual damage. Given that, preserving its utility would take priority for me.
I know what you mean and I agree that blasters need more utility powers in the secondary, not to the point of devices.... That's another story, but I like utility when playing blasters. If the damage is not so... high then that would be a nice offset for the devs to consider that proposal. Besides iirc there are three AT's that kinda outdamage blasters now so it's not like they are broken with this type of suggestion (not saying you said that. That's just me kinda rambling).

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If it could have a small amount of damage without affecting its effects or recharge, I'd certainly be fine with that.
This.


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Also, a note on Placate. Placate does not make you invisible. Placate, the stalker power, places the stalker into the hidden state and places the target in the placated state. The hidden state for stalkers doesn't make them invisible, it is just a word that means they are in the enhanced state for criticals. In fact, in CoV beta I lobbied for it to be called the critical state instead of the hidden state for this reason. The placated state for the target places them in a state where they cannot aggro the caster unless the caster hits them with an attack first, until the effect expires.
Yep I knew that I was in a rush typing that as I was about to leave work so I really did not proof the post before posting it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Well, my thought process for Spring Escape was that it would be nice to have an attack that could simultaneously be used to escape a group of attackers. In general, I prefer blaster moves to deal damage whenever possible, although there are exceptions.
I do have one problem with Spring Escape. I'm trying to imagine using it, and I find myself standing in the middle of combat, doing nothing for a moment while having to place a locational target point.

What about making it a toggle with a tether point such that, when detoggled, it gives the effects and returns you to the tether point? And give the player the ability to detoggle it while mezzed.


 

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Originally Posted by Razai View Post
I see your logic in this. I was thinking of swapping effects between the two powers (Spring Escape for what I suggested and Disrupt Chi being the damage power. I was thinking/invisioning Spring attack as a utility power (KD/Stun/Placate) and maybe light to minor damage, while disrupt chi should still keep its -res and maybe a lower level mag of stun but the damage should also minor to moderate in the damage category.
I don't see any specific problem with making spring escape the utility power and disrupt chi more of an attack power, its just my thought process went the other way instead. Actually, in the original suggestion it was closer to your way: spring escape was a repel-like power that did no damage (called Chi Push) and disrupt chi was a cone that did damage in the original 2006 suggestion. When I looked at it with 2012 eyes, I realized Spring attack gave me a better option than the repel, but that then made it seem like there were too many AoE attacks in the set, so I changed disrupt chi from a cone to a PBAoE that did no damage.


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Posted

Martial Arts themed immob? Bolas

My take:

Bolas - Ranged ST Immob, slow, chance for knockdown
Storm Kick
Focus Chi
Crane Kick
Quick Recovery
Spring Escape - I really like the idea of this, but I agree with the above, change it to a PBAoE placate on leap with a hit check, but also -res -def, to kind of set them up to be knocked down from a better position. Combine with a short or workable recharge of 25-45 seconds and it'd be the Drain Psyche of the set
Crippling Axe Kick - Longer immob, damage lowered to that of Crane Kick
Blinding Powder - Same as Arcanaville suggested, shorter recharge and some added damage
Eagle's Claw - Let this be part of the gimmick of the set (All new sets need gimmicks, right?), leave in the chance to crit on the MA attacks but set it to 0 at base, so only the attack used after Eagle's Claw will have a chance to crit and at no other time


I am the Blaster, I have filled the role of Tank, Controller and Defender
Sometimes all at once.
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Originally Posted by MajorDecoy View Post
I do have one problem with Spring Escape. I'm trying to imagine using it, and I find myself standing in the middle of combat, doing nothing for a moment while having to place a locational target point.

What about making it a toggle with a tether point such that, when detoggled, it gives the effects and returns you to the tether point? And give the player the ability to detoggle it while mezzed.
I'm not sure having to set up the power in advance is better on the player. Spring Escape has the same limitations as Spring Attack and other location-targeted powers and they haven't seemed to be problematic to this point.

Also, keybinds can help here. The teleport bind works equally well for powers like spring attack/spring escape providing a one-click way of executing the power. Its how I use spring attack itself.


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Posted

not to be a derp, but which teleport bind?


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Premonitions View Post
not to be a derp, but which teleport bind?
bind left shift + left button "powexec_name Spring Attack"

It's much faster than clicking the button then clicking the location, but you still have to target where to click.


 

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Originally Posted by Premonitions View Post
not to be a derp, but which teleport bind?
/bind lshift+click "powexec_name teleport"

My Fire/Dark blaster uses the following:
/bind lshift+click "powexec_name Rain of Fire"
/bind lctrl+click "powexec_name Spring Attack"

Hold shift and I get a reticle, when I click, Rain of Fire activates.
Hold control and I get a reticle, when I click, Spring Attack activates.

Edit: curses, too slow.


Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
A We don't normally consider it a mez because it doesn't act as any of the traditional effects referred to by players as "mez."
Let me see. Immobilization is a mez but making things stop attacking and run away is not ?

Interesting.


 

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Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
Immobilization is a mez but making things stop attacking and run away is not?
Does it really make them stop attacking? Or does it just make them run away and they can't attack while running away? If they are immobilized when hit with the afraid effect, does afraid do anything at all?


 

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Originally Posted by MajorDecoy View Post
Does it really make them stop attacking? Or does it just make them run away and they can't attack while running away?
It staggers incoming damage generally, occasionally preventing attacks from some enemies altogether. It is a soft control and reasonably effective. I find it better than WoC, but that may just be because of the huge size. I wouldn't call it a mez anymore than I'd call KB a mez.

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Originally Posted by MajorDecoy View Post
If they are immobilized when hit with the afraid effect, does afraid do anything at all?
99 times out of 100, if I Ring of Fire someone who is running away due to Hot Feet they decide they may as well attack since they can't run. I'll often choose not to Ring someone because of that.


Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorDecoy View Post
Does it really make them stop attacking? Or does it just make them run away and they can't attack while running away? If they are immobilized when hit with the afraid effect, does afraid do anything at all?
I am not entirely but pretty sure it does. They do this stop and turn deal usually when they have gotten a little into the hot feet.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
I am seeing a teleport-based attack set. I could see such a power for MA in general, but I didn't think it was as appropriate for a blaster manipulation set. But its an obvious base attack in a teleport-melee set.

A powerset with seven or eight teleporting attacks might actually be too much; constantly teleporting doesn't seem as interesting as optionally teleporting. So perhaps a teleport-attack power pool set makes sense one day. That way you could add teleport attacking to any other set's repertoire.

I am thinking it would be nice in MA because if Crane Kick sends them backwards, you can rush them again. Plus have the ability to tab>click and rush to the next enemy.

About a teleport power pool attack... well I assume you know why we can't really talk about that.

Speaking of your Spring Escape idea, one of the powers I wanted for a Controller set was a warp power that teleports the caster and applies a mezz in both locations.


 

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Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
99 times out of 100, if I Ring of Fire someone who is running away due to Hot Feet they decide they may as well attack since they can't run. I'll often choose not to Ring someone because of that.
Afraid basically increases the priority of the critter's AI to run. It does not force the critter to attempt to run when running is impossible, and when its impossible the critter then selects another action to perform.

Its possible to see the weird inverse to this in the AE: if you make a critter with no attacks and then taunt it, in a short period of time it will run away, even if you do not otherwise attack it. That's because taunting makes the critter want to attack, and when *that* is impossible it does the next thing on its TODO list, which is to high-tail it even though its under no real threat. It runs because it has nothing better to do.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Afraid basically increases the priority of the critter's AI to run. It does not force the critter to attempt to run when running is impossible, and when its impossible the critter then selects another action to perform.

Its possible to see the weird inverse to this in the AE: if you make a critter with no attacks and then taunt it, in a short period of time it will run away, even if you do not otherwise attack it. That's because taunting makes the critter want to attack, and when *that* is impossible it does the next thing on its TODO list, which is to high-tail it even though its under no real threat. It runs because it has nothing better to do.

Interesting. Is that specific to Taunt? Last time I created enemies with no attacks in the AE, they all gathered around my character at the closest range possible and just stood there. I used it to experiment with Jolting Chain early on. But they may have changed that.


 

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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
Interesting. Is that specific to Taunt? Last time I created enemies with no attacks in the AE, they all gathered around my character at the closest range possible and just stood there. I used it to experiment with Jolting Chain early on. But they may have changed that.
It may be. The last time I tested this was about a year ago, and I had to "affect" them to get them to run; taunt was the obvious way to do that in a way that didn't otherwise damage them, and I didn't want to use debuffs because there are theories floating around about debuffs having special properties.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
I am not entirely but pretty sure it does. They do this stop and turn deal usually when they have gotten a little into the hot feet.
Nope hot feet does not do that....Pummicites will still smash you as will warwolves.....you are thinking that the slow effect and damage over time is causing them to be afraid but forget that enemies dont like damage and debuffs at the same time thus they move away.

If you use Burn that causes afraid whicc was done on purpose by the developer team there was an old patch note about it and alot of upset Tanks...but hotfeet does not have that attribute.

Notice how Skulls at low levels or hellions will do the (Bionic run/baywatch run/aka slow run) but will still every so often turn and shoot you...thats with hotfeet only.

But if you use burn the enemies will avoid the area of effect and do nothing indies of it....whether they be warwolves or pummicites or mechmen.

Another test for the affraid.....using celerity and stealth go into the middle of some enemies and activate hot feet...notice they retaliate.....now do the same thing but use burn....notice they run but wont retaliate.....
Best place i found for this test i just mentioned was in Terra Volta with Sky Raider groups of 15 or so.

So again...hot feet doesnt have a special affraid effect...unless you think all attack powers have it...also contrary to the paragon wiki you can use this power while flying....it requires you to activate it on the ground...but you can turn on fly and fly with it.

oh and something not listed anywhere....the area of effect.....its radius is not a full bubble around you.....it hits out along its animation fairly well....down though it has slightly less range...and up it has even less range...so it radius is based on a more oval shaped bubble.
At least the good thing is that you can see it effecting things with its animations on them.
Thus you can see if you are actualy hitting something on and beyond just numbers.


 

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Originally Posted by Hatred666 View Post
I grabbed a handful of powers from Martial Arts, Ninjitsu, and Scrapper/Stalker Epic Powers and came up with the following. Kuji-In Retsu was altered a little bit by removing the +Def and Res Def DeBuff. My thinking is that without those, the end/recovery crash would also be removed, and the recharge time of the power would also be increased, effectively making the power more useful for the Blaster.

I kind of used Energy Manipulation as a guide. It also has a melee knockback, a melee disorient, and a hard hitting single target power.



Ninjitsu Manipulation:

1) Crane Kick - Melee, High DMG(Smash), Knockback
2) Cobra Strike - Melee, Medium DMG(Smash), Foe Disorient
3) Caltrops - Ranged (Location AoE, Minor DoT(Lethal), Foe -Speed
4) Dragon's Tail - PBAoE Melee, Moderate DMG(Smash), Foe Knockback
5) Focus Chi - Self +DMG, +To Hit
6) Exploding Shuriken - Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Lethal)
7) Kuji-In Retsu - Self +SPD, +Recovery
8) Blinding Powder - Ranged(Cone), Foe -To Hit, Sleep, Confuse, -Perception
9) Eagles Claw - Melee, Superior DMG(Smashing), Foe Minor Disorient

Can you say completely OP. Reduce the dmg levels for all the powers by one level then ok.


 

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Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
FREE FOR VIPS in Issue 24, just announced!
Arbiter Hawk totally stole spring escape. He tried to hide it with the triple execution thing, but we all know.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
FREE FOR VIPS in Issue 24, just announced!
Practical joke or real scoop?

After dealing with the uncertainty of the baseball trading deadline for the last 48 hours or so, I can't handle more ambiguity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze View Post
Nice build

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Obitus View Post
Practical joke or real scoop?

After dealing with the uncertainty of the baseball trading deadline for the last 48 hours or so, I can't handle more ambiguity.
Twitch tv, broadcasting now. Currently covering the Dominator variant, Martial Assault.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Twitch tv, broadcasting now. Currently covering the Dominator variant, Martial Assault.
Excellent news, thank you.

Can't watch now, but I'll look forward to the recap later.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze View Post
Nice build

 

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Man I love CoH: Freedom. New stuff just keeps on rolling out!