Martial Arts for Blasters

Yeah, I'll freely admit this. This is also why I stare boggle-eyed at the people in the Bio-Armor thread claiming that Shields isn't a top tier set and that Bio-Armor should necessarily have better survivability than it, even in Offensive mode. And Dark Melee is ridiculous for the damage it has (why oh why can't I say the same for Dark Blast or Dark Manipulation).

I really hope this is the case. I really do. I'm not sure it will be, as I'm highly skeptical that a single Sustain power will be sufficient, for various reasons, including (but not limited to) the fact that heal/regen/absorb mechanics do not scale with mob damage like debuffs, controls, defense, and resistance do (which are the things that every other AT has in abundance in one combination or another, and is why Defenders and Controllers perform so much better in the same environment). This is a similar problem to Electric Blast's endurance drain, which gets hit very hard by the purple patch (which combined with being binary makes it very tough to use in the +3/+4 environment that I'm used to running in).

Now that I'm thinking about it, the "scaling with the mob" issue is pretty key to the issues Blasters have, in general. It's the reason that Damage as Mitigation hasn't worked for them: it becomes less useful as mob difficulty goes up. Defense and resist scale very well, with Controls being slightly behind them (mez duration is reduced, but the Control ATs have enough duration that it doesn't normally make a difference). Debuffs are hurt quite a bit by the purple patch, but often the debuffer ATs have overwhelming and stackable debuffs that they can still significantly reduce and maybe even floor mob offensive power. Also, most debuffs are AoE and are often just as strong in AoE form as in single target form, whereas damage is significantly lower in AoE form. Heals and Regen don't scale at all, meaning that the Devs often give you an amount that is overwhelming at low difficulty, and insufficient at high difficulty... whether or not they scale with mob size varies, but usually they don't (Rise to the Challenge and Dark Regeneration are the few excepts I can think of). I currently don't know if any of the Sustain mechanics will vary based on spawn size, though I suspect Blazing Aura will.

True, but consider that the vast majority of the mitigation your Dark Armor brute has doesn't scale either. Having the best heal in the game freed you to go nuts soft-capping it, but your soft-capped defenses were invention-purchased, they were not intrinsic to the set.

I24 blasters have to be judged in the same way. Sustain doesn't make a high performance build any more than Dark Regen does. But Dark Regen wrapped within soft-capped defense does. The resistances within Dark Armor are relatively small compared to the strength of your defenses and your heal. An I24 min/max blaster build isn't going to take Sustain and then try to get more non-scalable regen. Its going to bank Sustain and then wrap it in soft-capped defenses just as you did. And a soft-capped blaster with sustain is going to be a lot stronger in I24 than a soft-capped min/max blaster is now.

Now consider the best case scenario to go up against soft-capped dark. Soft-capped blaster, with Martial Combat's very high Absorb (3.33% per second of Absorb shield), *and* significant invention-based regeneration, and a long-recharge mez-breaker, and a mez-protection proc.

The single sustain power is just a piece of the puzzle, just like Dark Regen is just a piece of the puzzle. But if its possible to make the build work (I haven't actually tried to construct it yet), won't it be potentially very strong even compared to your Dark Armor brute? It won't exceed it, but won't it at least be playing in the same ballpark. And isn't that saying something amazing?

Sorry, misread. Although I'm now curious to know if your ability to take out +4 MI constellations is as much because of the added firepower of AAO as it is the ability to actually tank them.

For most blasters these changes are just going to move them from playing just A league ball to getting the occasional exhibition game in the AA leagues. The new proc is 3 ppm and "Short duration" the usuable while mezzed attacks have recharge times that will bring that down to 5%-15% chance good luck stacking that or even maintaining it. That leaves blasters the Popsicle stick bomb of ATs. It's compounded by the fact that most blasters will still have poor single target damage.

I am happy we are getting something but I nearly fell out of my chair when I looked at the I24 overview page and saw "Blaster Upgrades: Blasters receive a substantial increase to their damage and toughness." Half the changes are of more benefit to other ATs, 1 is equal value, and only 1 actually is a blaster only buff.

It's nice to get something but it would have been nice if the devs realized that there has been a real demand for a ranged damage dealer and the "GLASS CANNON" playstyle and deliver it, instead of promising it and giving people something else.

The duration is 30 seconds, IIRC, and at 3 PPM, I'm calculating a proc chance of ~40% in an 8s-recharge t2 blast (under i24 rules, assuming normal-ish slotting). Higher than that, for the Superior version. Thank you for your good luck wishes, but I doubt they will be needed

Go back to your calculator 8s is the base recharge. and that is only for the longest recharging T2 blasts. Unless you go out of your way not to slot for recharge that will give you about a 22% chance.

You also get the added benefit of Spiritual and Agility alphas of reducing your chances to proc.

Soft-capped against what, though? I don't disagree with your general points in this conversation, but I do wonder how we can compare even an IOed-to-the-gills I-24 Blaster with a comparably IOed Brute, from a defensive standpoint.

The Blaster can't (as far as I know) soft-cap to all positions or even most types. That's always been (to me) one of the sticking points about Blasters and IOs: +DEF bonuses theoretically allow Blasters to blap better than they ever have before, but the positional limitations also tend to encourage Blasters to go all or mostly ranged.

You can split the baby, I suppose -- grab up ~32% in DEF to multiple types and positions, and rely on Inspirations to cover the gap to the soft-cap. Or you could go the extra mile to soft-cap to Ranged AND S/L/E -- but I'm not sure the last option is worthwhile, not least because you then lose the stacking resistance from an Epic pool (because you're stuck with Scorpion Shield). Or at least I wasn't sure back when I made up that build. Maybe the sustain (and in the case of MA Blasters, the combat teleport attack) will change my opinion.

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze Nice build

Good info, thanks. I haven't kept up on all the new news, so apologies if this is a dumb question -- but do we have the other particulars of the proc? Is it mez protection of a certain magnitude? If so, what's the magnitude?

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze Nice build

Putting it in water jet means you have it in a power you can't use while mezzed. This is called defeating the purpose.

But lets look at your odds of getting meaningful mezz protection out of that. In any given 30 second window you have to stack 3 firings of the proc. Looking at a water blaster with a 150% global recharge and near ED limits for recharge water jet has a recharge time of 3 seconds a cast time of 1.5 seconds giving you 6 firings per window, and a max of 7 due to the lockout.

That gives you 7 opportunities to stack the proc 3 times. It really doesn't take much to understand that most of the time you aren't going to be protected. No mag 3 for you. What's more most of the time you are going to have to go a full 30 seconds or more before you can even hope to have your stack.

So when you attack that rikti spawn and you are bombarded with enough stuns to disorient an elephant, or you have multiple mezzing CoT mages, or malta, or Kinives, or even Freaks since they really needed those super stunners that proc is going to do you a world of good.

The problem with relying on lucks to cover you is that you still need break frees.

This sounds like you're saying "meaningful" mez protection is up all the time protection, but I don't believe that to be true. Being able to break mez periodically or truncating a mez significantly with protection after the fact is extremely valuable to nearly all blaster players.

Yeah, it's not my favored approach. I know there are several outspoken advocates for that playstyle though.

I still think the IO system as it exists today tends to encourage a range-biased playstyle and build strategy. That may change with I-24. Some of those new Resistance IOs are pretty sexy, for instance.

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze Nice build

It's 1 point of protection but you can stack it up to three times so you get three points at max stack. This isn't great but it enough to avoid one mez form most enemies.

No not all the time, just something that is available enough that it prevents a good fraction of the time a blaster spends mezzed. Just using the water jet example the absolute fastest you could get mag 3 protection and assuming that the proc is one that will be increased 3.75 PPM and you get a full 40% chance to proc, you have a 6.4% chance to have mag 3 protection after 10 seconds (absolute best case) a 26% chance after 15 seconds. It gets better as you go out to the full 30 seconds. The problem with this is at any point along the chain if you get mezzed prior to having stacked sufficient protection your chance of getting it is 0.

I have been trying to decide where to put the proc and the best I could come up with is the t2 blast, or the t9 nukes. The fact that it is a full 30 seconds makes it more attractive and will certainly make blasters a little better to play but the AT will still be praying to the rng.

Well, I play SR so I'm always either praying to the RNG or swearing at it. Anyway, beta is up, theory can wait. You really want to play around with Ki Push before someone realizes its probably a tiny bit bugged.

I am hoping to enjoy the gaussian proc a little.

You can (and probably should) build stacks before getting mezzed; having it in a power that's usable while mezzed is helpful, but not the sole purpose. You also didn't account for the instant recharge on Water Jet, which is silly since it's the main reason I'm slotting it there. 6 casts of Water Jet per 30 seconds is easily done, even if I never use it during the Enhanced Water Jet lockout.

Also, you seem to be assuming that NPC mez is usually mag 3, like player mez is, but IIRC this is not actually the case. Mag 2 will protect you from a fair number of things; it's not totally worthless below 3 stacks.

Thirdly, considering that you're talking about taking alpha strikes from large groups of Rikti and having 150% global recharge, it would probably be more realistic to use the Superior version's proc rate, which should be 5 PPM under i24 rules (with my planned slotting for Water Jet, this means a 57.8% proc chance).

I'm patching beta now; if I manage to avoid getting distracted by the new shiny, I'll try it out and see how it works.

The fast recharge is accounted for there. I allow for 1 double cast in the 30 second window. mostly because you are going to go through 2 chains before you get your first one off unless you frontload with Tidal forces.

You are right it does have value. I would say it will be a solid quality of life improvement for blasters. I just don't see the aggregate of the changes taking blasters into the x8 range that other non force multiplier ATs are able to manage (or for that matter offensively oriented force multipliers).

Well catalysed ATOs are a little of no go zone for me. The only way of obtaining them in a reasonable time frame are the gamble packs. The snipe changes seem insane enough at this point could you imagine if the devs said to scrappers "Well we are taking away your crits but you can have better ones if you take these powers and these IOs. Oh and that is only on half your primaries and half your secondaries". I bet you would be able to hear the grinding of teeth.

A bit of both. I know that part of the reason I survive the +4 MI is due to the fact that I know how to prioritize targets and will take down the Illusionist pets the moment they are summoned, which really doesn't take very long on a DM/SD/Soul Brute with its ridiculously high single target damage. Throw in tohit debuffs (relevant to non-positional attacks), knockdown from Shield Charge, and the self heal from Siphon Life on top of soft cap to all three positions, and that's a force to be reckoned with in a manner that I'm not sure Blasters can reach (Blasters have to choose so much between Primary Sets with good damage versus Primary Sets with good survivability, whereas Dark Melee gives up good AoE damage in order to be top tier in every thing else).

...the Enhanced Water Jet lockout is 8 seconds, and although I don't know what attack chain you think I'm using, it doesn't take long to get the first one off. With a 30 second duration, I can probably have a stack or two left from the previous fight.
I don't think anyone is disputing that. But that's a thoroughly separate point from the basic mechanics of the Defiant Barrage proc.
Buying Super Packs for Catalysts is foolish, I agree. Fortunately, they are pretty easily obtained via Incarnate content. A catalyst every few trials, or for each run through the DA arcs, seems to be pretty normal.

However, apparently not all procs received an increased PPM, as was the plan last I'd heard. So the normal/Superior procs are still 3/4 PPM respectively, and the proc rates I've cited are slightly too high. So I'm actually looking at 46% in Water Jet.

Anyway, off to run a few missions and see how it works in play.

Holds are almost always mag 3. But other mez like stuns and sleeps are sometimes mag 2. I'm not entirely certain why this is, although I suspect an informal rule at one time was critter rank should influence critter mez: minions deal mag 2, Lts mag 3, etc. Hold is rare for a minion to possess, but everything and their dog is packing stun.

For fun, I decided to try this out again, ArcanaVille, with a real +4 mob: aka without any Incarnate powers. Man, it's been a long time since I faced Carnies at +4x8 (I run at that diff all the time, even solo DA, but I've got Incarnate powers with level shifts, so it's never actually that high) and I've gotten rusty. Just my luck, given what I said before, the first spawn I encountered had two Dark Ring Mistresses and I faceplanted. I can't count on one hand the number of times I've actually had to use Darkest Night in the last year, but when running this +4x8 Radio Mission, I had to use it in order to stay alive. The next spawn had both a DRM and an MI, and I managed to wipe the entire spawn, including the DRM, then died due to running out of endurance and having all my toggles drop; I actually could've prevented this, but I wanted to create the exact test we were talking about, so I let it happen.

The fight itself was basically: A) set Darkest Night on the MI; B) kill the Dark pet as soon as it comes out, because the Chill of the Night debuff is devasting; C) ignore the Illusionists, letting AAO, Dark Obliteration's -Tohit, Shield Charge's knockdown, and Darkest Night turn them into whimpering babies; D) wail on the MI. The MI's pets actually would despawn after a set time, which is something I don't remember them doing in the past, and the Illusionists simply couldn't land their mezzes in the time they were around. I used blue pills and a large yellow, and no other.