In terms of reality, his shield should not be able to do any of those things, fictional materials or no. Conservation of momentum, etc, if he falls several thousand feet and stops suddenly he will become a flag-colored splatter.
But who cares about reality, we're talking about a superhero. Maybe Joss decided it would look silly to not use a parachute, or didn't want to take the screen time to explain it for the non-comic-readers. Or you could justify it in-universe because he was parachuting into a forest, and absorbing the impact when he hits the ground won't stop him from getting ripped up by a 200mph tree branch first.
It's one of those things he might be able to do, if he needed too, but is far from certain. Wheras he KNOWS the parachute will take him safely to where he needs to be.
The Parachute is also in there to reflect the skills he has because of his military training.
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Rainbow bridge to where?
You can make an indestructible suit and a perfect battery if you're rich enough?
You're a superhero if you're good at Archery?
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Hawkeye|
Originally Posted by _Klaw_
You're a superhero if you're good at Archery?
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Green Arrow
Trick Arrow and Archery power sets in City of HEROES.
I reckon maybe so.
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Uh oh!
Quick physics lesson.
- The Cap's inertia is separate from that of his shield.
- And, while the shield might absorb the impact, that's only HALF the equation. We then have two possiblities:
- The shield absorbs the impact and simply becomes identical (from an impact standpoint) with the ground. Think "collision with a tree"
- The shield reflects the impact (like it did with the hammer) and "rebounds" since there's nothing actually bracing it. Think "head on collision of two cars".
Cap would still be traveling at roughly terminal velocity. And while the backside of the shield would absorb/redirect the impact too, it's no better than the ground at doing so. Cap's body would STILL have to find some way to impart all that inertial energy. And it's not going to do it in a uniform way.
In either case, the dear Captain would likely splash all over the inside of his shield upon impact.
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Indeed. It's simply comes down to what works in the comics does not always translate well to the big screen.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Quick physics lesson.
Cap would still be traveling at roughly terminal velocity. And while the backside of the shield would absorb/redirect the impact too, it's no better than the ground at doing so. Cap's body would STILL have to find some way to impart all that inertial energy. And it's not going to do it in a uniform way. In either case, the dear Captain would likely splash all over the inside of his shield upon impact. |
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Very, very good explanation.This is crystal. Thanks.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Quick physics lesson.
Cap would still be traveling at roughly terminal velocity. And while the backside of the shield would absorb/redirect the impact too, it's no better than the ground at doing so. Cap's body would STILL have to find some way to impart all that inertial energy. And it's not going to do it in a uniform way. In either case, the dear Captain would likely splash all over the inside of his shield upon impact. |
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These are great points.|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
It's one of those things he might be able to do, if he needed too, but is far from certain. Wheras he KNOWS the parachute will take him safely to where he needs to be.
The Parachute is also in there to reflect the skills he has because of his military training. |
Regardless of the physics involved or Capt. A's level of toughness I think his use of a parachute was just a matter of convincence and common sense more than anything else. I mean can walk a mile down the road to get to a store if I need to but it's usually easier to ride a bike or drive a car there. Same thing here: Even if he -could- survive that drop why make it hard for himself?
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I hate to admit it, but I have forgotten which shield Captain America is currently using both in the comics. He has had a few over the years. I can think of 5 off the top of my head.
There was a point in the comics that he lost his shield (I think the Government confiscated it). He got two loaners, first one from Stark which he gave back. And then one from T'challa (Black Panther) made out of vibranium.
Using the vibranium shield he did fall a very long way and used the vibranium to absorb the impact. (I don't remember what he fell out of just remember he should have been a pancake.)
I realize that is silly. That maybe the vibranium absorbs the shields impact, but that doesn't do anything for cap. I just mention it for Comic book physics reference.
His movie shield was made out of vibranium. So... following comic book physics he could fall on the shield and be just fine.
(Again I realize that real physics say different.)
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Heck, you're a super hero if you wear a utility belt, so why not!?
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Originally Posted by _Klaw_
You're a superhero if you're good at Archery?
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We don' need no stinkin' signatures!
Why a parachute?
He's a soldier. His instincts would be to grab a chute before jumping out of a perfectly good airplane.
He also knows he can't fly.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
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Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
Why a parachute?
He's a soldier. His instincts would be to grab a chute before jumping out of a perfectly good airplane. He also knows he can't fly. |
This.
Plus factor in that he's never used his shield to survive such a fall before and it's probably nothing you want to test unless you have to.
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Wasn't his original shield an alloy of vibranium and adamantium that they were never able to reproduce?
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Originally Posted by Draugadan
His movie shield was made out of vibranium.
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The Mentor Project
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His original triangular shield was a steel alloy. |
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Wasn't his original shield an alloy of vibranium and adamantium that they were never able to reproduce?
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The round shield that he later received and that fans commonly associate him with was at first a bulletproof shield back in the Timely comics.
After he was retconned into the MU, his shield was damaged and wrecked a few times until it was revealed/retconned that Stark was studying Caps' actual shield and that the previously wrecked ones were replicas.
Cap's shield is a unique mix of vibranium and steel, not adamantium. The scientist that was working with the alloy that would become Cap's shield apparently fell asleep at the controls and somehow the vibranium and steel mixed and formed the alloy. It has never been reproduced, and attempts to reproduce it as I recall are what made adamantium.
Cap's "indestructible" shield has been damaged/destroyed a few times but under extreme circumstances. Secret Wars Vol 1 ish 12 opened with the damaged shield right on page one. It was recently shattered by the Asgardian Fear lord the Serpent in the Fear Itself mega event, and Stark gathered the pieces and had the Asgardian dwarves that made THOR's hammer and other weapons rebuild the shield. The dwarves apparently added the asgardian alloy URU to the shield during the reassembly so the shield should now be even stronger then ever.
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Also this. Cap knows he has impressive healing factors, strength and stamina, but is wise enough not to submit to scrapperlock. Plus, it'd still bloody hurt.|
Originally Posted by Caemgen
This.
Plus factor in that he's never used his shield to survive such a fall before and it's probably nothing you want to test unless you have to. |
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Originally Posted by HwaRang
Hey folks,
I'm just curious in terms of "reality"...Also in real life, how hard would the impact have been? I forgot high school physics.... |
The bulked-up Cap weighs 240lbs (according to MUWiki),plus a 12lb shield and... call it around 25lb of utility belt and lightweight armour. That works out at 277lbs/125kg, and we'll round down the 120mph a little to 50m/s.
So for every kg of Cap's body and gear, that's roughly 1.5kJ of energy to dissipate: 187.5kJ overall over a very short deceleration period.
Considering that the average human legbone can only sustain a 200J impact before snapping (though it depends a lot on the mode and point of impact), even a supersoldier like Cap's gonna feel that one.
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Indeed. |
Originally Posted by DreamWeaver
Also this. Cap knows he has impressive healing factors, strength and stamina, but is wise enough not to submit to scrapperlock. Plus, it'd still bloody hurt.
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What I think some fans forget or don't realize about Cap is that the Super Soldier Serum brought him from a sickly 98 pound weakling to the peak of human physical and mental capabilities.
Steve Rogers is as good as a human can get without going to superhuman levels. He can still be hurt, shot, stabbed and can die if the wounds are serious enough and he does still feel pain and fatigue.
But on the other hand, a good way to describe his physical capabilities would be that anything an olympic gold medalist can do, with some practice and training Steve Rogers will match and exceed with ease.
I get the impression that the super soldier serum was ramped up some in the movie actually. There was a part in Captain America (the movie of course) which seemed to imply that he got something of a healing factor.
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Well in the Capt. America movie there was a scene in an empty bar where he said the "downside to being a super-soldier is that he couldn't get drunk" and then Agent Carter told him that his "metabolism was running 4 times faster than normal".|
Originally Posted by docbuzzard
I get the impression that the super soldier serum was ramped up some in the movie actually. There was a part in Captain America (the movie of course) which seemed to imply that he got something of a healing factor.
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Not sure how much "super-human healing" he could have from that but at least that's what they established in the movie. I guess we could probably say his ability to recover from wounds is just a tad above normal human maximums. That's probably a simple way to explain why he was able to survive being frozen for 70+ years without any medical assistance.
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Quote:
Yup. Cappy also gets a turbo boost - not Super Speed, but enhanced-out Swift and Sprint - as he can keep up with an NYC taxicab in a footrace, and is seen deadlifting 400kg (and change) of Harley and showgirls during that incredibly fabulous dance routine. |
Originally Posted by docbuzzard
I get the impression that the super soldier serum was ramped up some in the movie actually. There was a part in Captain America (the movie of course) which seemed to imply that he got something of a healing factor.
|
So while neither is outside the capabilities of any one pro athlete - 30mph is pretty much Usain Bolt speed, while 400kg falls a little short of the world record - getting both in the same warm body is definitely superhero territory.
Is it time for the dance of joy yet?
Quote:
I was reading up the Wikipedia entry on Cap because of the above reference which said the shield was steel/vibranium rather than admantium/vibranium (which I had read back in the day). Apparently the steel/vibranium is cannon these days (comics are always in flux). |
Originally Posted by DreamWeaver
So while neither is outside the capabilities of any one pro athlete - 30mph is pretty much Usain Bolt speed, while 400kg falls a little short of the world record - getting both in the same warm body is definitely superhero territory.
|
There was one particularly ridiculous stat in there. After explaining that Cap is the peak of human performance, they state that he can bench press (yes, not deadlift) 1200 lbs. Umm, yeah. Peak of human performance. Right.
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Cap can get drunk it just takes a lot more alcohol then it would take the average person. He also recovers from intoxication faster so he wouldn't be impaired for long. |
Originally Posted by Lothic
Well in the Capt. America movie there was a scene in an empty bar where he said the "downside to being a super-soldier is that he couldn't get drunk" and then Agent Carter told him that his "metabolism was running 4 times faster than normal".
Not sure how much "super-human healing" he could have from that but at least that's what they established in the movie. I guess we could probably say his ability to recover from wounds is just a tad above normal human maximums. That's probably a simple way to explain why he was able to survive being frozen for 70+ years without any medical assistance. |
In the comics it was stated the serum prevented crystallization of his blood and tissues, hence his survival in the ice.
However if the serum enhances one to peak human perfection both physically and mentally then it would follow that their immune system/healing ability would also be amped up. He's not Wolverine level of healing but he can still heal faster then a normal person can.
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From Cap's wikipedia entry:|
Originally Posted by DreamWeaver
Yup. Cappy also gets a turbo boost - not Super Speed, but enhanced-out Swift and Sprint - as he can keep up with an NYC taxicab in a footrace, and is seen deadlifting 400kg (and change) of Harley and showgirls during that incredibly fabulous dance routine.
So while neither is outside the capabilities of any one pro athlete - 30mph is pretty much Usain Bolt speed, while 400kg falls a little short of the world record - getting both in the same warm body is definitely superhero territory. |
Captain America has no superhuman powers, although as a result of the Super-Soldier Serum and "Vita-Ray" treatment, he is transformed from a frail young man into a "perfect" specimen of human development and conditioning.[79] Captain America's strength, endurance, agility, speed, reflexes, durability, and healing are at the zenith of natural human potential. Rogers' body regularly replenishes the super-soldier serum; it does not wear off.[80]
The formula enhances all of his metabolic functions and prevents the build-up of fatigue poisons in his muscles, giving him endurance far in excess of an ordinary human being. This accounts for many of his extraordinary feats, including bench pressing 1200 pounds (545 kg) and running a mile (1.6 km) in 73 seconds (49 mph/78 kph).[81] Furthermore, his enhancements are the reason why he was able to survive being frozen in suspended animation for decades.
I think Marvel classifies superhuman strength as the ability to lift 1 ton minimum. Cap falls a bit short of that mark. On the other hand, I'd say Cap could easily match Khan Noonien Singh in terms of abilities.
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If he had 4x the metabolism of the average person, it would take 4x the alcohol, but he's also larger than the average person, so the alcohol needs would probably be even more. He'd be drinking at least 4 beers for every one of anyone else. He couldn't physically drink that much at once before his metabolism burned off the alcohol. Even if he were drinking hard liquor like it was beer, he'd have to chug an awful lot just to feel it.
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Originally Posted by Nericus
Cap can get drunk it just takes a lot more alcohol then it would take the average person. He also recovers from intoxication faster so he wouldn't be impaired for long.
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Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
Hey folks,
Hope all is well. (Trying not to get into spoilers)
In The Avengers, I was wondering why Capt. A. really needs a parachute to chase after someone. Couldn't he have just used his shield to absorb the impact when he had hit the ground? I mean...he did take a mighty blow from a certain something after he was on the ground. And can't his shield withstand The Hulk's punches?
I'm just curious in terms of "reality"...Also in real life, how hard would the impact have been? I forgot high school physics....
Thanks in advance.