8-year vet badge?


Arcanaville

 

Posted

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't a free character slot rewarded with the Vet Badge?

I know you got one per year when Freedom launched and I was under the impression you got one for every year. Not a problem for me since I'm VIP and have maxed out slots on my favorite server but it might be nice for some players.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow View Post
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't a free character slot rewarded with the Vet Badge?

I know you got one per year when Freedom launched and I was under the impression you got one for every year. Not a problem for me since I'm VIP and have maxed out slots on my favorite server but it might be nice for some players.
The 1 free character slot per year was discontinued with issue 21. However, the 1 extra Paragon Reward Token does seem to be working, even if the badges aren't.




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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
The 1 free character slot per year was discontinued with issue 21. However, the 1 extra Paragon Reward Token does seem to be working, even if the badges aren't.
I'll have to check that out, I don't recall seeing that pop up on my account--thanks!


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Posted

Hunh, I'm surprised we've never had an official response to this issue (other than the aforementioned "canned" Support responses, which aren't much of a response at all).

I sat next to Posi during dinner at the Pummit, and asked him specifically about this exact issue. He said that the vet "year" badges are completely and irrevocably dead, kaput, and that's that. Apparently the figuring up of paid time and awarding of badges is somehow involved with a 3rd party (vendor) of theirs and he indicated that there's simply no way to fix the code involved (he was QUITE emphatic about this issue being dead, which is why I'd expect that they would just post up something about it at some point and be done with it).

I'm fairly shocked to hear that at least one person claims to have been awarded one recently, given Posi's black and white response to my question...guess they don't understand even how the code is broken.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Nelson View Post
Hunh, I'm surprised we've never had an official response to this issue (other than the aforementioned "canned" Support responses, which aren't much of a response at all).

I sat next to Posi during dinner at the Pummit, and asked him specifically about this exact issue. He said that the vet "year" badges are completely and irrevocably dead, kaput, and that's that. Apparently the figuring up of paid time and awarding of badges is somehow involved with a 3rd party (vendor) of theirs and he indicated that there's simply no way to fix the code involved (he was QUITE emphatic about this issue being dead, which is why I'd expect that they would just post up something about it at some point and be done with it).

I'm fairly shocked to hear that at least one person claims to have been awarded one recently, given Posi's black and white response to my question...guess they don't understand even how the code is broken.
interesting, and i would assume the same as you

personally if they consider the system dead they should just remove all of the yearly vet badges because otherwise poeple will still be expecting them, and yes i know this means i would lose at least 5 badges but at least i wouldnt be expecting another badge come this july when i cross the 6 year mark


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master View Post
personally if they consider the system dead they should just remove all of the yearly vet badges because otherwise poeple will still be expecting them, and yes i know this means i would lose at least 5 badges but at least i wouldnt be expecting another badge come this july when i cross the 6 year mark

I would tend to agree that they should be removed if they are indeed broken (and this comes from perhaps the only person to have the 8 year badge verified on the badge hunting sites).


Octavian Vanguard
@ohmsEU and @ohms 2

Badging character: Bimble on the Union server, Badgehunter.com and City Info Tracker.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Nelson View Post
Hunh, I'm surprised we've never had an official response to this issue (other than the aforementioned "canned" Support responses, which aren't much of a response at all).

I sat next to Posi during dinner at the Pummit, and asked him specifically about this exact issue. He said that the vet "year" badges are completely and irrevocably dead, kaput, and that's that. Apparently the figuring up of paid time and awarding of badges is somehow involved with a 3rd party (vendor) of theirs and he indicated that there's simply no way to fix the code involved (he was QUITE emphatic about this issue being dead, which is why I'd expect that they would just post up something about it at some point and be done with it).

I'm fairly shocked to hear that at least one person claims to have been awarded one recently, given Posi's black and white response to my question...guess they don't understand even how the code is broken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master View Post
interesting, and i would assume the same as you

personally if they consider the system dead they should just remove all of the yearly vet badges because otherwise poeple will still be expecting them, and yes i know this means i would lose at least 5 badges but at least i wouldnt be expecting another badge come this july when i cross the 6 year mark
Wow, I'm surprised to hear Posi make such an absolute personal statement about this issue without making that kind of thing a public announcement. It's unfortunate to think that not only have they apparently given up on dealing with this problem altogether but that they've even decided to pretend it doesn't exist. Frankly I would have had more respect for the Devs if they had just owned up to the failure six months ago and been done with it than to just let it drag on this long.

Despite my best efforts to maintain my optimism it was becoming fairly clear that there was a serious problem that wasn't getting dealt with here. But of all the possible ways to handle this situation I think Posi has picked the worst possible one. Just letting it go off into the weeds when we know that so many people are left hanging with various badges that should be awarded, especially considering there have been at least a handful of people who have actually gotten these badges lately REGARDLESS of what Posi's trying to claim, is very sad on several levels.

There are at least two better "Plan B" options that would be more acceptable than the current scenario:

1) I still believe my idea to have these annual Vet badges trigger off of a person's account creation date would be a viable alternative to the way the Devs have been trying to make these work. Apparently the Devs have become so narrow mindedly focused on trying to make their original idea work that they've become numb to the possibility that they should just step back and accept that they need to do something radically different. Again I totally understand that basing these badges on a person's account creation date will no longer reflect how much actual time that person has been subscribed or not. But clearly that detail doesn't really matter to Posi anymore anyway based on the fact that he's willing to just let these badges fall off the proverbial edge of the map. If he's truly given up on the type of badge he wants we might as will get a type of badge that actually WORKS consistently.

2) If for some reason the Devs can't or won't give my above idea a try then the only acceptable "final solution" should be for the Devs to remove these badges from the game the same way they removed the AE badges. It would make absolutely no sense for the Devs to leave a broken set of badges in the game that people will no longer be able to count on standing for anything, especially once again if a few random people are just going to get a handful of these things without any rhyme or reason. It's completely unfair and infuriating to think that some few people might simply "get lucky" and get the badges they are supposed to get when most other people won't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OV_ohms View Post
I would tend to agree that they should be removed if they are indeed broken (and this comes from perhaps the only person to have the 8 year badge verified on the badge hunting sites).
My characters have their 7th year Vet badges and should have had their 8th a few weeks ago. But like you I would be willing to have them all removed from the game if the Devs can't find a more reasonable solution. Everyone should be working from the same "starting position" as far as that goes. It would not be fair for some people to have more badges than others just because the system randomly decided to work correctly for few people and not others. We deserve a 100% deterministic system for getting badges. I need to have total confidence that if I do X I know with complete certainty I will always get Y. Allowing any badge to exist on a character just because of some uncontrollable arbitrary chance is unacceptable (this is also why Bug Hunter is a uniquely broken badge but I'll refrain from that tangent here).

The only way a badge system like this can work is if we have trust and confidence in the system. If Posi's willing to just hand-wave and pretend this will not be a lingering problem then I think he's chosen the shortsighted cop-out as opposed to making a hard but respectable command decision. I hope that he and the other Devs will consider my alternatives and make a better choice here. Posi has the opportunity to do the right thing, he only needs to be willing to see that he needs to act. Sweeping something like this under the rug is simply -not- the right thing to do.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Nelson View Post
I sat next to Posi during dinner at the Pummit, and asked him specifically about this exact issue. He said that the vet "year" badges are completely and irrevocably dead, kaput, and that's that.
Then the should be removed. The precedent exists with the Issue 7 and Issue 15 badge removals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Nelson View Post
Apparently the figuring up of paid time and awarding of badges is somehow involved with a 3rd party (vendor) of theirs
Well, that was their first mistake. They should have NEVER let any 3rd party determine how rewards are awarded in-game. Same goes for Paragon Points and Paragon Reward Tokens. At the very least, Paragon Studios should have dictated failure penalties in the contract with the 3rd party.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Nelson View Post
and he indicated that there's simply no way to fix the code involved
Speaking as a long time programmer, there is always ways to fix any code. It depends on how much willpower exists to fix the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Nelson View Post
he was QUITE emphatic about this issue being dead, which is why I'd expect that they would just post up something about it at some point and be done with it.
I get that they would be embarrassed about this, but Paragon Studios keeping silent on this issue is doing their reputation far more harm than saying "We're sorry, this isn't working out. So we'll remove the veteran year badges in the interest of fairness to all our loyal customers.", then following through and actually removing the badges (or setting them all to hidden/off/"." which wouldn't require any coding beyond a quick database change).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Nelson View Post
guess they don't understand even how the code is broken.
I'm sure that there is someone that knows how the badges are supposed to work, but that person might not be in the design group.




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Posted

I got the usual 8 year badge (Rhapsodic?) but not the literal "8 Year Veteran" badge. By all rights that should hit around the 28th of April.

I do use those badges on occasion while on new characters to punch home & Role playing, showing that I'm not a new player, and have been here a while.



Running City of Heroes Panel - Dragon*Con 2012 MMORPG track

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
Speaking as a long time programmer, there is always ways to fix any code. It depends on how much willpower exists to fix the problem.
I highly suspect the reason why they can't fix this is that they've simply lost track of most (or all) of the account data that would've told them the exact difference between how much time a person's been subscribed/VIP versus how much time they haven't since CoH:Freedom launched. No amount of clever coding will help them deal with a situation where they don't have the data needed to implement what they want from this. That's probably why Posi has just given up without considering reasonable alternatives.

As we all know the Devs never had the whole "account time" thing completely under control even before CoH:Freedom. Ever since the beginning of the Vet program there were semi-random people getting Vet badges many MONTHS earlier than they should have even been able to given the "rules" of the system. I submit that whatever this "3rd party" accounting system is/was that it's been screwing things up for many years now.

I sincerely hope Posi and the other Devs will be willing to stop beating their collective heads against the wall and come up with a simpler solution to this that does not involve all those faulty and convoluted account gyrations. That's probably been a coding nightmare for them for years anyway. This issue deserves a real alternative, not just a bunch of Devs sticking their heads in the sand and giving up. Surely almost any course of action would be better than the "nothing" we have now at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CentralNexus View Post
I got the usual 8 year badge (Rhapsodic?) but not the literal "8 Year Veteran" badge. By all rights that should hit around the 28th of April.
Yep, but according to this latest news apparently Posi doesn't really care about it anymore.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Nelson View Post
Hunh, I'm surprised we've never had an official response to this issue (other than the aforementioned "canned" Support responses, which aren't much of a response at all).

I sat next to Posi during dinner at the Pummit, and asked him specifically about this exact issue. He said that the vet "year" badges are completely and irrevocably dead, kaput, and that's that. Apparently the figuring up of paid time and awarding of badges is somehow involved with a 3rd party (vendor) of theirs and he indicated that there's simply no way to fix the code involved (he was QUITE emphatic about this issue being dead, which is why I'd expect that they would just post up something about it at some point and be done with it).

I'm fairly shocked to hear that at least one person claims to have been awarded one recently, given Posi's black and white response to my question...guess they don't understand even how the code is broken.
Wow. Color me disappointed. It was a cheap pat on the back in the first place, but now there's absolutely no recognition that we've spent the better part of a decade supporting Matt, Melissa, and Co.


There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
I highly suspect the reason why they can't fix this is that they've simply lost track of most (or all) of the account data that would've told them the exact difference between how much time a person's been subscribed/VIP versus how much time they haven't since CoH:Freedom launched. No amount of clever coding will help them deal with a situation where they don't have the data needed to implement what they want from this. That's probably why Posi has just given up without considering reasonable alternatives.
Note that I didn't mention anything about data.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
I sincerely hope Posi and the other Devs will be willing to stop beating their collective heads against the wall and come up with a simpler solution to this that does not involve all those faulty and convoluted account gyrations.
And basing the Vet year badges on account creation date as you suggested would be a coding fix that didn't touch the accounting situation (much).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
That's probably been a coding nightmare for them for years anyway. This issue deserves a real alternative, not just a bunch of Devs sticking their heads in the sand and giving up. Surely almost any course of action would be better than the "nothing" we have now at this point.
Agreed.




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Posted

i agree with lothic on this, either fix the badges to simply use account creation date, or remove them completely if they are broken

and as snow globe pointed out we have had several badge removals in the past (im still kind of annoyed at the i15 badge removal, THAT is actually what killed my interest in AE, so what if half of them were a little grindy it would have actually gotten me to play AE arcs more lol)


 

Posted

I've come up with some pseudo-code that should be able to make the annual Vet badges be solely based on players' account creation dates. Obviously I don't know the exact details as far as variable and function names go, but I suspect the Devs could understand what I've written here and translate it into something the game can work with:

Code:
 
int current_server_date; /* this would be the server date as an integer based date constant */ 
int game_launch_date; /* this would be April, 28 2004 as an integer based date constant */ 
 
int Process_Annual_Vet_Badges()
{
   int account_creation_date;
   int account_age_in_years;
 
   account_creation_date = Convert_Date_To_Int(Get_Creation_Date (player_id));
 
   if (account_creation_date < game_launch_date)
      account_creation_date = game_launch_date; /* this normalizes people who've been here since CoH beta */
 
   account_age_in_years = Calc_Account_Age_In_Years(current_server_date, account_creation_date);
 
   for (i=1, i <= account_age_in_years, i++)
      Award_Vet_Badge(i); /* this would award the i-year badge if not already awarded */
}
Many of these functions (such as what I'm calling 'Award_Vet_Badge(i)') should already exist in the system in some form or fashion because these functions are already needed to check and verify whether a character has earned a specific badge or not. The "hardest" part of this appears to be extracting the account creation date from player account records. But considering how difficult it currently seems to be to resolve the whole total subscription time nightmare I would think this single date lookup is orders of magnitude easier.

I'd love to have a Dev tell us why this would be unreasonable to do...


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Posted

Do we or don't we want our eight year vet badges?

Do they or don't they want our yearly subscriptions?

Would they be happy to exist on FTP players alone?

Would the game survive on FTP players alone?

I want my 8 year vet badge simply because I've earned it. I've paid £100 subscriptions a year in advance for precisely these sort of rewards including game play of course. If I don't get the rewards I've paid for then; I'm the buyer I will simply take my £100 and go spend it somewhere else.

We shouldnt be having to do the devs work for them Lothic (though I wish I had half your brain and knowledge) this is what we (the consumer) pay them (the employee) to do - we pays the piper so we calls the tune.


There is always a lot to be thankful for, if you take the time to look. For example, I'm sitting here thinking how nice it is that wrinkles don't hurt. ~Author Unknown

 

Posted

Well if it is true and the vet badges are dead then they need to delete the badges from the game. I for one would not be happy with reaching 8 year vet status and to not get the badge while someone else has it. For me and many others that badge would be attainable but would never be granted. that's not fair....


@EU Blue Blaze

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warbaby View Post
We shouldnt be having to do the devs work for them Lothic (though I wish I had half your brain and knowledge) this is what we (the consumer) pay them (the employee) to do - we pays the piper so we calls the tune.
Don't worry, I'm all about letting them do what they need to do to make these badges work properly.

My goal in tossing out a few minutes worth of pseudo-code was to highlight just how relatively straightforward it would be for them to redefine these badges to be based on account creation dates. As a workaround to their current roadblock on this issue my idea almost could not be simpler to implement. If it took one of the Devs more than a few days tops to make this happen I'd be amazed.

That's the most infuriating thing about this for me: Posi has chosen to "give up" on this when a very simple Plan B solution clearly exists. If I was suggesting a fix that would take weeks or months to finish then sure I could see where Posi would have every right to ignore it. But a fix like mine should be something they could do blindfolded.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by <span style="color: GoldenRod; font-weight: bold;">Lothic</span> View Post
Anything like that is possible. Still I have to go back to the fact that virtually no one (OV_ohms being the only real exception I know about at the moment) has gotten their expected annual vet badges since CoH:Freedom launched last year. I think it's safe to say that we are dealing with something far more problematic than a few people having their dates being shifted by a few months here or there.
Originally Posted by TsumijuZero
I contacted support and I got a reply suggesting a fix is in the works for a future publish...

"Thanks for taking the time to contact us with this report. We are currently aware of this issue and hope to have a fix implemented in an upcoming patch."


same answer my wife got when she asked about her seven year badge a week ago


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by HurtyaPlenty View Post
Originally Posted by TsumijuZero
I contacted support and I got a reply suggesting a fix is in the works for a future publish...

"Thanks for taking the time to contact us with this report. We are currently aware of this issue and hope to have a fix implemented in an upcoming patch."
Actually, it suggests nothing of the sort. It's a completely standard, generic, scripted response. We've been seeing that exact text, in response to a variety of questions, for years.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by HurtyaPlenty View Post
Originally Posted by TsumijuZero
I contacted support and I got a reply suggesting a fix is in the works for a future publish...

"Thanks for taking the time to contact us with this report. We are currently aware of this issue and hope to have a fix implemented in an upcoming patch."

same answer my wife got when she asked about her seven year badge a week ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironblade View Post
Actually, it suggests nothing of the sort. It's a completely standard, generic, scripted response. We've been seeing that exact text, in response to a variety of questions, for years.
Yes I have to agree with Ironblade on this. People have been getting the same "hope to have a fix implemented in an upcoming patch" answer to this specific issue since CoH:Freedom launched last year.

If you read this kind of diplomatically worded response carefully you'll realize you can expect a fix to something like this sometime between 5 minutes from now and the heat-death of the Universe. It's just about as neutrally non-committal as a Dev/GM/CS type person can get...


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Posted

I've been waiting for my 4 year badge since december. I've patitioned it with the same standard CS responce months ago and am still waiting. I even asked about it in last weeks Freedom Friday on face book with the responce that there were no plans to fix it in the near future.

Though I can see the logic in Lothic's suggested work around, and support it if it were implemented, I do notice that the accounts pages does still keep a record of 'paid time' as my account lists mine as '4 years, 1 months' which obviously discounts my 3 months from the boxed retail editions I have purchased with an account creation date of '19 Dec 2007'. So I'd even be willing to accept a system based on actual paid time.

Either way, yes, these badges either need some sort of fix or to be removed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by St_Angelius View Post
I've been waiting for my 4 year badge since december. I've patitioned it with the same standard CS responce months ago and am still waiting. I even asked about it in last weeks Freedom Friday on face book with the responce that there were no plans to fix it in the near future.

Though I can see the logic in Lothic's suggested work around, and support it if it were implemented, I do notice that the accounts pages does still keep a record of 'paid time' as my account lists mine as '4 years, 1 months' which obviously discounts my 3 months from the boxed retail editions I have purchased with an account creation date of '19 Dec 2007'. So I'd even be willing to accept a system based on actual paid time.

Either way, yes, these badges either need some sort of fix or to be removed.
I think the key problem here is that for many people the "paid time" data is either incorrect and/or doesn't properly reflect things like retail codes or VIP time. The Devs have basically lost the ability (at least since the start of CoH:Freedom) to accurately tell how much paid versus free time anyone has anymore. And again I would argue that they NEVER had a complete 100% handle on that kind of thing for everyone anyway.

In a perfect world it would be nice if the Devs could base these badges on some version of the "paid time" concept. But I think it's sadly clear this will never happen. I will readily admit my solution to this problem is simply a practical brute-force workaround for a problem that likely can't be solved any other way.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
I think the key problem here is that for many people the "paid time" data is either incorrect and/or doesn't properly reflect things like retail codes or VIP time. The Devs have basically lost the ability (at least since the start of CoH:Freedom) to accurately tell how much paid versus free time anyone has anymore. And again I would argue that they NEVER had a complete 100% handle on that kind of thing for everyone anyway.

In a perfect world it would be nice if the Devs could base these badges on some version of the "paid time" concept. But I think it's sadly clear this will never happen. I will readily admit my solution to this problem is simply a practical brute-force workaround for a problem that likely can't be solved any other way.
oh, I know, and agree. Would just like the devs to actually do something one way or an other. It's just so annoying there being badges that I should be able to get but can't. My badging main is pulling his hair out the way things are going at the moment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...

 

Posted

this was posted on google+ on friday:

The yearly Vet badges (1 year vet, 2 year vet, etc.). These have been broken since the start of Freedom. Has any resolution been decided on with these - the only "official" answers I've heard have been "so and so said this at x event" and when these are petitioned, people get entirely different answers from support. If these are permanently broken, then maybe they should be removed from the game. It's a touchy subject having supposed to have gotten one of these last October, yet no resolution has been made, no badge awarded, no real answer has been given, and everything is rumour at this point.

City of heroes Freedom Response: I believe we've looked into this, but I don't believe we have an ETA for when it will get fixed. Sorry!


@EU Blue Blaze

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by HurtyaPlenty View Post
"Thanks for taking the time to contact us with this report. We are currently aware of this issue and hope to have a fix implemented in an upcoming patch."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Blaze View Post
City of heroes Freedom Response: I believe we've looked into this, but I don't believe we have an ETA for when it will get fixed. Sorry!


There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.