Is shield viable in Solo Incarnate content?


danomal

 

Posted

Shield has real trouble hitting the standard softcap of 45% which is 14% lower than the new Incarnate softcap of 59%.

I have a concept that would make a wonderful shield toon, but I fear that solo, it just wouldn't cut the mustard in DA and other new solo/small team incarnate content.

Am i wrong? Is there ways to build a shield toon that can cap its vectors at 59%? or is there just no need to do so because shield has other tools to help it surive the additional damage it will take from incarnate tohit buffed mobs?


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Posted

My defenses are in more the 46-48% range, and I still do fine at 4x8 (With three level shifts, mind.) I'll have to pop the occasional skittle, or use Destiny, or otherwise temporarily bolster myself, but you do not need to be at Incarnate softcap to perform acceptably well in Incarnate content solo.


 

Posted

Basically you want to do a bit of reading on your enemies. Certain types will toss out some fairly monstrous -Def debuffs (Sorrows-based BP for one) and if you have a couple of them in a group they can floor you quickly, even with massive DDR.

Like sappers on Malta missions, these are the guys you want to nuke first so they can't wreck you. Do that, and the rest of the enemies are cake.

When I was running through on my Inv/SS tank, I'd notice myself going from near Incarnate softcap to negative numbers almost immediately upon hitting a group with 2+ BP Sorrows Elders or Ancients in there and inspected a couple floors that way.



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Posted

You need insps as shield. I have +0 shield that I run at +0x5 with no insps. Any higher I have problem esp with Knives where everyone has -def.


 

Posted

No, enemies in Dark Astoria definitely have 64% base tohit, like enemies in trials. You can verify this with a Power Analyzer.

Nevertheless, my regular-softcapped characters seem to be doing fine in DA.


 

Posted

I haven't had any issues running 0/8 as long as defense debuffers are taken out first as stated earlier. Also Shield Charge, Lighting Rod and Thunder Strike usually keep the badguys busy until they are defeated.


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Posted

My Elec/Shield and Broadsword/Shield scrappers do fine in incarnate content solo. I may have to pop a skittle every now and then, but that's not a problem. Broadsword has the advantage of Parry to build up melee defense easily past the Incarnate softcap. Electric just kills stuff with the double-whammy.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeling View Post
No, enemies in Dark Astoria definitely have 64% base tohit, like enemies in trials. You can verify this with a Power Analyzer.

Nevertheless, my regular-softcapped characters seem to be doing fine in DA.
Are you sure? Last I checked my combat logs, enemies were getting no better than 8% chance to hit my softcapped characters. Do some factions have 64 and others 50 maybe?


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Posted

If any have a 50% chance, it is probably a bug. As far as we know, they should all have the 64% chance, barring other effects.

Edit: I just did some spot checks in DA (in the open zone) and everything I poked had a 64% "To Hit Bonus" listed under their Base heading. I tried Knives of Vengeance, Banished Pantheon, Circle of Thorns and Talons of Vengeance.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

At "normal" difficulty levels (ie, +0x1, +0x2, +1x1, +1x2, +2x1 - the original difficulty settings) a Shield character should have no problem with any content, even Incarnate content, even without hitting the 45% softcap. Reaching the Incarnate Softcap would only be necessary when increasing your difficulty to levels that are intended to be team content.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Are you sure? Last I checked my combat logs, enemies were getting no better than 8% chance to hit my softcapped characters. Do some factions have 64 and others 50 maybe?
Hm. Are you possibly at a difficulty setting that puts enemies at -1 or lower once you count your level shifts? I know I'm talking to Dechs Kaison, but that's the only thing I can think of. Or possibly Combat Attributes is displaying the wrong number for some reason. I haven't watched hit rolls.

I'm not sure if the normal factions that appear in DA have 64%, but the DA-specific enemy groups (Knives of Vengeance, DA Tsoo, etc) seem to.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Test_Rat View Post
Shield has real trouble hitting the standard softcap of 45% which is 14% lower than the new Incarnate softcap of 59%.

I have a concept that would make a wonderful shield toon, but I fear that solo, it just wouldn't cut the mustard in DA and other new solo/small team incarnate content.

Am i wrong? Is there ways to build a shield toon that can cap its vectors at 59%? or is there just no need to do so because shield has other tools to help it surive the additional damage it will take from incarnate tohit buffed mobs?
You don't need to be at the soft-cap to mitigate a goodly amount of damage. Shield does more than fine.


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Posted

I have been running DA stuff on my Icapped Elec/EA/Mu stalker and just devastating the mobs at +4x8.

It would be a shame to roll a shield brute (Going to try SS again.) and being weaker defensively than my stalker.

I will give it a shot and I guess I am locked into Gloom/Dark Obliteration/Darkest Night.

Thanks.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeling View Post
I'm not sure if the normal factions that appear in DA have 64%, but the DA-specific enemy groups (Knives of Vengeance, DA Tsoo, etc) seem to.
Based on the test I just did, they do. I was specifically interested in the CoT found in DA, as they are, as far as I know, otherwise identical to level 45-54 CoT found in the rest of the game's content. To get the DA versions, entirely new versions of these CoT critters would have to have been created.

Hm, I suppose it's worth checking what CoT look like outside of DA. I doubt they would have just quietly bumped them up to 64% everwhere, but then, that's basically what they did when creating level 45-54 Devouring Earth.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeling View Post
Hm. Are you possibly at a difficulty setting that puts enemies at -1 or lower once you count your level shifts? I know I'm talking to Dechs Kaison, but that's the only thing I can think of. Or possibly Combat Attributes is displaying the wrong number for some reason. I haven't watched hit rolls.

I'm not sure if the normal factions that appear in DA have 64%, but the DA-specific enemy groups (Knives of Vengeance, DA Tsoo, etc) seem to.
I'll admit I only looked once and it was back around the issue launch. I'm sure I checked against even con, but I can't be sure what I was fighting.

All I know for sure is that I don't notice a significant difference between even con DA content and even con normal. I do run both at x8, just vary the level to keep my KD powers from doing KB.

So, put me down as "I'll take your word on this one, but a shield character should still be just fine."


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Test_Rat View Post
It would be a shame to roll a shield brute (Going to try SS again.) and being weaker defensively than my stalker.

I will give it a shot and I guess I am locked into Gloom/Dark Obliteration/Darkest Night.

Thanks.
You're not locked into Darkest Night. 45% defense plus occasional insp use is perfectly fine even without DN.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Test_Rat View Post
Shield has real trouble hitting the standard softcap of 45% which is 14% lower than the new Incarnate softcap of 59%.
Not sure I agree with the first part, seeing as I have four shieldies who are all at 45% MRA defense.

Quote:
or is there just no need to do so because shield has other tools to help it surive the additional damage it will take from incarnate tohit buffed mobs?
There's a wide range of values lying on the survivability continuum between "no defense" and "incarnate softcap". A decent Shield build should be fine. Carry candy.


 

Posted

My FM/SD Scrapper was 50+3 before DA launched, so she never experienced it without shifts, but she sits at about exactly 45% to all positions and walked all over all the DA content at 4x8 easily. She uses Rebirth, does not have OWtS, and mostly only used insps for the Arachnos AVs. Granted she is up there in terms of my most expensive character builds, but, that's another factor entirely.


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Posted

Well, are you doing the Solo incarnate content with no incarnate powers? Or are you just going back and doing it to say that you've done it? If you already have incarnate powers, you could always run a build with constant barrier. I hear t4 can be made perma. I don't know the exact numbers, or how much it degrades through its cycle, but that should be enough to put a 45% defense character at 59%+ defense most of the time.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emberly View Post
There's a wide range of values lying on the survivability continuum between "no defense" and "incarnate softcap". A decent Shield build should be fine. Carry candy.
This. You have decent damage resist as well as defense with shield, and anyways all of the DA content can be run at base difficulty even without level shifts by pretty much any AT. The non-trial incarnate content is fairly easy, about on par with the Pretoria arcs imo, maybe a little harder (though you have more powers by this point, so it evens out). As long as you play smart, you'll be fine.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by magikwand View Post
Well, are you doing the Solo incarnate content with no incarnate powers? Or are you just going back and doing it to say that you've done it? If you already have incarnate powers, you could always run a build with constant barrier. I hear t4 can be made perma. I don't know the exact numbers, or how much it degrades through its cycle, but that should be enough to put a 45% defense character at 59%+ defense most of the time.
Since Shield has no heal in the set, many (most?) Shield builds use Rebirth. Trading that for Barrier, even if it gets you to the cap for 30 seconds every 120, is probably a net loss in survivability.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeling View Post
Since Shield has no heal in the set, many (most?) Shield builds use Rebirth. Trading that for Barrier, even if it gets you to the cap for 30 seconds every 120, is probably a net loss in survivability.
True. I have a couple of incarnate shielders, both have rebirth or ageless available for use. I wouldn't use barrier on those toons, but the OP was looking for a way to reach incarnate soft cap... this is just one of several ways this can be done.

I still wouldn't go so far as to call it a net loss personally, but that is just me.


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Posted

If it got you there permanently, sure. But for 90 seconds out of 120, even a T4 Core Barrier won't get you from the normal softcap to the Incarnate softcap. A panic heal and huge regen boost is, IMO, more valuable than a half-duration purple inspiration.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Are you sure? Last I checked my combat logs, enemies were getting no better than 8% chance to hit my softcapped characters. Do some factions have 64 and others 50 maybe?
Remember to take into account level shifts.



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