Well, it depends on funds really.
Unlimited funds, I'd probably give the nod to TwoHeadBoy's Arch/Mental build. That thing is pretty wicked looking on paper.
If however you don't have 2 billion to sink into this project...
Most likely, I'd go with Fire/Ice as that is still my most 'impressive' Blaster.
Fire has power and Shiver/Ice Patch will keep most everything away long enough to melt.
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I dont have one, but have a planned build for one, but, fire/mm is pretty darn mean!
Fire/MM is pretty much the closest thing to tankmage you'll get with a blaster. Specifically Drain Psyche+Softcapped defenses+the dps from fire is what makes it a winning combination.
I've had a Fire/MM before but I didn't like it as much as my Fire/EM that came before it or my Fire/Elec that came after it. Drain Psyche offers alot of survivability and alot of -regen but it's not a total replacement to the far superior raw dps that /elec can put out.
Fire/MM is probably it but I'll still give the nod to my Rad/Fire/Mace simply because I don't think I'll ever get around to making a Fire/MM since I'm mostly played out on Fire/
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Fire/MM is probably it but I'll still give the nod to my Rad/Fire/Mace simply because I don't think I'll ever get around to making a Fire/MM since I'm mostly played out on Fire/
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What's so good about that?
Thelonious Monk
I feel like the ultimate blaster is a Perma eclipse, perma Mire, 3 extracted essence running warshade. IF you really want a blaster though, Fire/MM or Arch/MM.
Archery/Mental has stronger AOE damage than Fire/Mental with a crashless nuke that can be cycled 3 times a minute or less and a targeted AOE that can be cycled every 5 seconds or less, and the latter takes a Force Feedback +recharge proc to bring the nuke up more quickly. Fire has better single target damage than Archery but that hardly matters because Archery/Mental can solo GM's without pets/temps/inspirations anyways. I don't see the point in sacrificing AOE for better ST damage when you can down the hardest single targets in the game by yourself on the set with better AoE... Unless you just want a Fire/Mental for doing it more quickly.
Archery/Mental/Mu can solo GM's, solo just about every enemy group in the game on 54x8, farm as fast or faster than top tier melee sets, take alpha strikes for a team, regenerate over 100 HP per second permanently, debuff regen, sap endurance and debuff recovery, permanently confuse a group of level 54 minions and LT's, amongst other things. It's not a question of the "ultimate Blaster," it's a question of the ultimate character, period.
Right now I run a perma Drain Psyche, s/l Softcapped build on my Archery/Mental. I'm working on a positional defense build with much higher potential for survivability but I still have some kinks to work out. Here's the general idea of that build:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=255
fire/mm is the best "blaster" with its AoE until you can get your level 32 6 slotted
then archery/mm is better because of rain of arrows
Dropping Rain of Arrows from out of LoS is just crazy, and you can do it every fight.
Well, between the two who do think will come out on top once you add ageless in the mix?
Ageless won't do anything to help Fire catch up to Archery's AoE, and until hybrid comes out Clarion is basically mandatory for Blasters, especially for a set that thrives on melee play like Mental.
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Hrmm, I wish I was math inclined...I wonder if you throw in Ageless after firing a nuke and using Burnout would it even come close to the numbers of Arch/MM...probably not...come to think of it, it probably would end up hindering you more than helping considering the goal is constant pure damage.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Ageless won't do anything to help Fire catch up to Archery's AoE, and until hybrid comes out Clarion is basically mandatory for Blasters, especially for a set that thrives on melee play like Mental.
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Both are ridiculously awesome. In some cases Fire is much better due to the speed of delivery; sure its only a second or two, but I have seen plenty of arrows land on things teammates have already made dead and I have seen plenty of Archers (including my own) compensate by moving ahead and taking the next spawn and playing leap frog with the team.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Ageless won't do anything to help Fire catch up to Archery's AoE, and until hybrid comes out Clarion is basically mandatory for Blasters, especially for a set that thrives on melee play like Mental.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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First, Fire's nuke has around 4 times the base recharge if I'm remembering correctly. Second, it already wrecks your endurance and your recovery every time you use it, and Burnout has a massive endurance penalty. Even Drain Psyche and Ageless can't completely cover your losses since you'll have to retoggle everything every time you want to use your nuke... It's just not efficient at all.|
Originally Posted by Tater Todd
Hrmm, I wish I was math inclined...I wonder if you throw in Ageless after firing a nuke and using Burnout would it even come close to the numbers of Arch/MM...probably not...come to think of it, it probably would end up hindering you more than helping considering the goal is constant pure damage.
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Edit: Inferno actually has six times the base recharge of RoA.. Ouch.
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I agree that Fire Blast is a good set, but combined with my philosophy for playing Archery/Mental (more like a Bow Melee/Psionic Armor Brute- Pretend you have a Fury bar) the cast time penalties of RoA are made up fairly easily. If the rest of your team can wipe an entire spawn in less than four seconds, you're better off doing like you said and playing leapfrog, or helping out with the alpha strike and then starting in on the next group as the rest of the team wipes the last bosses from the previous one.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Both are ridiculously awesome. In some cases Fire is much better due to the speed of delivery; sure its only a second or two, but I have seen plenty of arrows land on things teammates have already made dead and I have seen plenty of Archers (including my own) compensate by moving ahead and taking the next spawn and playing leap frog with the team.
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First of all just to let you know I'm not attacking you. I love Playing Devil's Advocate and I love discussion. I also like trying to be Non Biased since I prefer Archery over Fire as well.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
First, Fire's nuke has around 4 times the base recharge if I'm remembering correctly. Second, it already wrecks your endurance and your recovery every time you use it, and Burnout has a massive endurance penalty. Even Drain Psyche and Ageless can't completely cover your losses since you'll have to retoggle everything every time you want to use your nuke... It's just not efficient at all.
Edit: Inferno actually has six times the base recharge of RoA.. Ouch. |
I have a Ice/Dark Corr and yes he has to re-toggle Assault after a Nuke but I have no issue with the lack of end from the Crash from Blizzard or Burnout...but Ice isn't as bad as Fire when it comes to end. Also with Drain Psyche one can gain back lost end if you combine it with T4 Ageless...heck it takes a lot to stop T4 Ageless in it's tracks alone.
My combo is normally Ice Storm, Blizzard, Ageless, Burnout, Ice Storm, Blizzard....yes I got off on a tangent lol.
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Didn't think you were, just explaining my train of thought. |
Originally Posted by Tater Todd
First of all just to let you know I'm not attacking you. I love Playing Devil's Advocate and I love discussion. I also like trying to be Non Biased since I prefer Archery over Fire as well.
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I have a Ice/Dark Corr and yes he has to re-toggle Assault after a Nuke but I have no issue with the lack of end from the Crash from Blizzard or Burnout...but Ice isn't as bad as Fire when it comes to end. Also with Drain Psyche one can gain back lost end if you combine it with T4 Ageless...heck it takes a lot to stop T4 Ageless in it's tracks alone. My combo is normally Ice Storm, Blizzard, Ageless, Burnout, Ice Storm, Blizzard....yes I got off on a tangent lol. |
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Forget comparing Inferno to ROA.|
Originally Posted by Tater Todd
Hrmm, I wish I was math inclined...I wonder if you throw in Ageless after firing a nuke and using Burnout would it even come close to the numbers of Arch/MM...probably not...come to think of it, it probably would end up hindering you more than helping considering the goal is constant pure damage.
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Here is what you pretty much have to look at.
Fireball : 84.46
Firebreath : 109.8
Rain of Fire : 125 over 15 seconds.
319.26
Fistfull of arrows : 56.93
Explosive Arrow: 56.31
Rain of Arrows : 225 with a 4 second cast.
338.24
They are close, and as someone said its all about delivery. Fire has a fast punch in Fireball/Breath but it takes much longer for RoF to do its thing. Archery has the large burst you can do while LOS'ing mobs to greatly reduce the alpha you take.
Inferno is something to use when you have some blues and want to make an extra spawns worth of aggro mostly disappear quickly.
As much as I liked ROA nuking things, I ended up playing my fire blaster much more because Blaze is just that awesome. With archery you have to be first into the spawn if you want RoA to do much other than finish off some LT's and damage some bosses. On fast teams with equally fast players I found my only option was to pretty much ditch out on finishing off the last spawns bosses to get ahead and have the upwards of 5-6 seconds in animation time getting Aim/BU/ROA to cast before anyone else got there, where on my fire blaster I could help a lot with bosses thanks to the awesomeness that comes from having blaze up every 3 ish seconds and still be at the next spawn with everything else hitting Fireball/Breath to melt the weaker foes.
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Originally Posted by MrLiberty
Forget comparing Inferno to ROA.
Here is what you pretty much have to look at. Fireball : 84.46 Firebreath : 109.8 Rain of Fire : 125 over 15 seconds. 319.26 Fistfull of arrows : 56.93 Explosive Arrow: 56.31 Rain of Arrows : 225 with a 4 second cast. 338.24 They are close, and as someone said its all about delivery. Fire has a fast punch in Fireball/Breath but it takes much longer for RoF to do its thing. Archery has the large burst you can do while LOS'ing mobs to greatly reduce the alpha you take. Inferno is something to use when you have some blues and want to make an extra spawns worth of aggro mostly disappear quickly. As much as I liked ROA nuking things, I ended up playing my fire blaster much more because Blaze is just that awesome. With archery you have to be first into the spawn if you want RoA to do much other than finish off some LT's and damage some bosses. On fast teams with equally fast players I found my only option was to pretty much ditch out on finishing off the last spawns bosses to get ahead and have the upwards of 5-6 seconds in animation time getting Aim/BU/ROA to cast before anyone else got there, where on my fire blaster I could help a lot with bosses thanks to the awesomeness that comes from having blaze up every 3 ish seconds and still be at the next spawn with everything else hitting Fireball/Breath to melt the weaker foes. |
Looks like a big part of that is resting on Fire Breath vs. Fistful of Arrows. I never use cones on my Blaster builds- For this purpose they'd both be reasonably replaced with Psychic Shockwave which would obviously be the same on both. That leaves RoA vs. RoF and Fireball vs. Explosive Arrow. Something that'd be hard to quantify there is the fact that Explosive Arrow takes a FF +recharge proc to bring RoA up more often but even without that, you'll see a wider gap in AOE performance favoring Archery.
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Clarion is not mandatory. Break Frees are fine if you can manage inspirations properly. And while my Fire/Elec does have Clarion I only really use it for mez heavy tasks like the LGTF or UGT, otherwise I run Rebirth. 4-8 break frees are plenty for nearly everything in this game. It should also be noted that my fire/elec isn't ranged softcapped, so it's not like I'm dodging all the mez. Rebirth (for non mentals) or Barrier (for mental) will give more mileage for a blaster in terms of overall survivability than clarion will in most content.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
until hybrid comes out Clarion is basically mandatory for Blasters, especially for a set that thrives on melee play like Mental.
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Also, as Lib pointed out, Archery is _not_ head over shoulders better than Fire in AoE. Archery heavily relies on RoA for it's AoE which has a 4s activation (non arcanatime) as well as delayed damage after that. This activation+delay isn't a big deal when you're soloing or on a slow-moderate paced team, but the faster a team gets the faster Archery will fall behind, most spawns will die in the time you're casting RoA, the 'running ahead to the next spawn' trick isn't 100% effective either. Fast teams won't just penalize Archery for it's activation times either in comparison to fire. Fire will have it's good aoe up for every spawn, on fast teams archery won't have RoA up every spawn. At best RoA is about a 15 sec rchg iirc, the same as RoF.
Not only that but just with how hard Fireball+Firebreath can hit by itself on a blaster, it's really all you need to clear a spawn. To put that in perspective, my fire/elec can solo a BAF door on a league of 24 (meaning max spawn size, spawn rate, and max Lts) pretty much just with Fireball+Firebreath, with blaze to pick off misses. An archer won't be able to RoA that fast and their other aoes don't hit nearly as hard as ball/breath do.
I've played Archery blasters before, and I've had few friends that have played archery toons as well maxed out, and I've seen archery blasters farm. The AoE isn't as superior to Fire as you make it out to be, and the ST dps isn't even close. Not to mention redraw.
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I'm really hoping they implement some changes for the hybrid slot since otherwise hybrid won't do anything to alleviate the usefulness of clarion for a ranged blaster.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
until hybrid comes out Clarion is basically mandatory for Blasters
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I think pretty much the only tree even vaguely worth investing in for my energy/dev blaster is assault.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
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One of the things I stress for my personal characters is self sustainability- Relying on break frees to me is not a valid means of status protection since I solo a lot (I'd go through the whole tray before I finish a mission) and I play on the front lines (same problem, though I might get more use out of them.) My human Warshade has every Destiny tree at t4 so that he can take advantage of Barrier/Rebirth/Ageless on leagues when he's not as likely to get hit with mez or others have Clarion. I haven't collected Incarnates as extensively with my Blaster but I'm not ruling out a similar approach. For now though, Clarion is the best path for guaranteed self sufficiency at all times.|
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Clarion is not mandatory. Break Frees are fine if you can manage inspirations properly. And while my Fire/Elec does have Clarion I only really use it for mez heavy tasks like the LGTF or UGT, otherwise I run Rebirth. 4-8 break frees are plenty for nearly everything in this game. It should also be noted that my fire/elec isn't ranged softcapped, so it's not like I'm dodging all the mez. Rebirth (for non mentals) or Barrier (for mental) will give more mileage for a blaster in terms of overall survivability than clarion will in most content.
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| the 'running ahead to the next spawn' trick isn't 100% effective either. |
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| Fast teams won't just penalize Archery for it's activation times either in comparison to fire. Fire will have it's good aoe up for every spawn, on fast teams archery won't have RoA up every spawn. At best RoA is about a 15 sec rchg iirc, the same as RoF. |
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| Not only that but just with how hard Fireball+Firebreath can hit by itself on a blaster, it's really all you need to clear a spawn. To put that in perspective, my fire/elec can solo a BAF door on a league of 24 (meaning max spawn size, spawn rate, and max Lts) pretty much just with Fireball+Firebreath, with blaze to pick off misses. An archer won't be able to RoA that fast and their other aoes don't hit nearly as hard as ball/breath do. |
Also for your example, don't discount the fact that escaped prisoners is one of the few situations in the game where knockback is a valuable tool, adding to the usefulness of Explosive Arrow. Running mobs knocked on their backs are very unlikely to escape.
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| I've played Archery blasters before, and I've had few friends that have played archery toons as well maxed out, and I've seen archery blasters farm. The AoE isn't as superior to Fire as you make it out to be, and the ST dps isn't even close. Not to mention redraw. |
Also, thought the set's DPS might not be top tier, Archery has a very good burst ST attack in Blazing Arrow. Aim>Concentration with Assult, Reactive and proper slotting/proccing means that Blazing Arrow can hit for over 950 pts of damage.
My vote would be a elec/shield scrapper. BU + LR + SC = A no crash ranged blaster nuke. Well that and every incarnate gets a great crashless nuke.
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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I think the communication error occurs here. Perhaps your terminology is a bit on the strong side? Psi blast can't compete with Archery in AoE damage. Fire, on the other hand, runs a solid race. If it were a decathlon of AoE damage events, Archery likely would win 6 or 7 events and Fire would take 3 or 4 (and that assumes very good builds, which I would take as understood in an Ultimate blaster thread; but for completeness (and because of my Fire/ bias) I will add that at lower levels of build investment, Fire's AoE will surpass Archery).|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Fire's AoE is good, I'm not saying it's bad- But it can't compete with Archery.
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I think they compete fine.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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It's a matter of opinion. The point is it is not mandatory like you were saying.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
One of the things I stress for my personal characters is self sustainability- Relying on break frees to me is not a valid means of status protection since I solo a lot (I'd go through the whole tray before I finish a mission) and I play on the front lines (same problem, though I might get more use out of them.) My human Warshade has every Destiny tree at t4 so that he can take advantage of Barrier/Rebirth/Ageless on leagues when he's not as likely to get hit with mez or others have Clarion. I haven't collected Incarnates as extensively with my Blaster but I'm not ruling out a similar approach. For now though, Clarion is the best path for guaranteed self sufficiency at all times.
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| How do you figure? |
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| RoA doesn't strictly *need* to be up for every spawn- E Fences>Explosive Arrow>Psychic Shockwave is perfectly viable AOE during the downtime, which is 20 seconds max on my build. Rain of Fire has the same base recharge as RoA and Fire can't benefit from a Force Feedback proc in its tAOE. I'm not sure how this equates to a shortcoming at all. Beating the rest of the team to the alpha strike OR casting on the next spawn from the previous one are both equally viable tactics to employ. |
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| First off, I have to point out that "soloing doors" on BAF is the definition of poor team play- Dropping circles on the middle door of the south choke point occasionally is one thing, but to position yourself at a door exclusively without utilizing the choke point technique does more harm to overall team/league efficiency than anything else. Second, cones in my experience very rarely hit their target cap, especially a short range one like Fire Breath. Next, using RoA on that south door is very very easy. You can actually que it up before the door even opens, and all enemies will be hit by the arrows before they even exit. This works with RoF also. |
1) Choke points aren't the only way to run baf. You can also put people at each door, this is actually alot more efficient than choke points. Don't knock it until you've tried it.
2) Even using a choke point strategy removing all the spawns from an entire door with just 1 person contributes far more if you were standing in choke points. On a team of 24 using a choke point strategy the team split will typically be 1 team north, 2 teams south. That's 8 people north covering 2 doors, or in other words 4 people per door. Can you really say a single person handling 1 door isn't more efficient than 4 people handling the same door? I didn't think so.
3) I have no issues hitting 80-100% of a spawn with fire breath.
4) Firebreath is 40 ft vs fistful's 50 ft. Noticeable, but not a big difference, especially if you learn to target the enemy at the back of the spawn so you are fully utilizing the power's range. Fire Breath will also typically be enhanced with a posi dmg/range bringing it up ~48 ft.
5) I never said anything about using RoA or RoF on a door beind hard or not. The fact is you can't RoA every spawn, ironically on the contrary, RoF can be perma on a door, but it's not necessary for blasters (corrs make better use of RoF).
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| Also for your example, don't discount the fact that escaped prisoners is one of the few situations in the game where knockback is a valuable tool, adding to the usefulness of Explosive Arrow. Running mobs knocked on their backs are very unlikely to escape. |
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| Fire's AoE is good, I'm not saying it's bad- But it can't compete with Archery. |
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| yes, Fire's ST is better, but Archery/Mental can already solo the hardest single targets in the game without any outside buffs/pets/help/insps/temps/etc. To me, once you can do that, you don't really NEED any more ST. |
2) Beating out an AV's regeneration is really only useful solo, and is actually a very low threshold, especially for a /mental blaster. In a team situation, having more dps is always useful.
3) A large portion of your effective dps is from drain psyche. What happens when you're on a team and other players already have enough -regen to floor an AV's regeneration? How much -regen will your drain psyche do? zero. It is very nice to have -regen, but it's not equivalent to raw dps.
4) The amount of relevant dps is entirely subjective in a solo situation which is basically what you're talking about, so you're spot on there. But in a team situation, more dps is always helpful, and even solo, doing things faster is always nice. Just how how fast being considered good is subjective.
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| Also, thought the set's DPS might not be top tier, Archery has a very good burst ST attack in Blazing Arrow. Aim>Concentration with Assult, Reactive and proper slotting/proccing means that Blazing Arrow can hit for over 950 pts of damage. |
I was reading Evil Gecko's "Weakest combo" thread and it made me laugh. I actually like what he's thinking there because as anyone who knows me will tell you, I am always up for a challenge.
But it did make me wonder what people consider to be the Ultimate Blaster
I find All-Electric pretty disappointing, but my Ice/Energy has always performed really well - it's as though they are two different animals.
But what in your opinion is the Uberblaster? What makes it great and what sets does it need, and most importantly why?
Thelonious Monk