Best MM Primary/Secondary Combos

Hello. I have never played an MM past the 20s because I could never find a combo that really worked for me. Then I took three years off from the game and returned in January. A lot has changed, and MMs have so many more power choices than they originally did when I was playing back in 06-08.

What seems to be the consensus for "The Best" MM build? I know that's sort of like asking "Coke or Pepsi," but what power sets seem to mesh better with others. If you want to post a Mids build, that would be great. I know they have guides on here, but they're all outdated.

I am thinking of going Necro/Dark/Soul, red side, with a possible flip to blue after I get the patron pools I want.

Any help would be appreciated.

On scale of 1-5 this is how I see most MM primaries overall with some added notes

Beast-3
-ALL melee
-pets are squishy
-dire wolf tends to burn thu his end
-set relies heavily onbuilding pack mentality for pet dmg or fortify pet, but post 32 MM attacks arent needed to keep this high

Demons-5
-prefer melee
-lots of dmg variety(fire/cold/toxic)
-self buff and heal with tier 2 pets
-prince is just amazing

Mercs-1.5
-worst overall set..period
-much better suited for ranged...and being mediocre
-medic is almost useless
-adding the Achilles Heel proc makes their dmg less pitiful

Necro-3.5
-melee oriented with Lich as ranged crowd control
-most average overall set, but very good
-zombies are squishy, but eventually get self heal
-the tohit debuffs are nice

Ninjas-3
-melee oriented
-overall feel is kamikaze razorblades, good dmg if they can live
-Oni's Rain of Fire can scatter mobs

Thugs-4.5
-mixed range/melee
-mostly smash/lethal with arsonist for some fire(he dies a lot)
-layering defenses on top of enforces makes them very durable
-Bruiser is a decent meatshield

Robots-5
-prefer range
-very durable and se;f sufficient
-great dmg is mob is locked down for Assault bots AOE


As for secondaries..here we go.


Dark and Time go great with everything, keep you busy, and are fun to play
-Dark edges over time in overall "best" secondary due to how well the debuffs stack up and especially Fluffy

Force field/Sonic..both are decent, but boring and work better with primaries to compliment pets inherent def/res
-mez protection for you is nice
-FF favors thugs/bots/ninjas but can work well with necro or beast..aso works well with mercs due to force bubble
-Sonic is not bad on thugs, goes best with demons, and decent on beast or necro

Thermal is a great and underplayed set. IOs dont offer much in the way of resistances so this is great endgame set
-can be ranged, but aoe heal needs melee
-good mix of buff/heals early game, the end late debuffs are totally wicked

Storm is great in the right hands, a headache in most
-prefers ranged sets, but can be used to good effect in melee
-Freezing Rain is just awesome

Poison...just..dont...
-I really want to say something good about this..so I will...the animation for the ally rez is cool. Thats all I can say for this set

Pain
-better in melee, good at range
-great early game, but end pain falls behind b/c it cant keep up with incoming dmg
-works better with tougher pets late game such as thugs/demons/necro

Trick Arrow
-very range oriented
-overall not a bad set, crowds tend to underestimate the level of debuff this set puts out
-would be a lot better if Oil Slick didnt send your pets to the 4 corners of the earth. They REALLY hate this power

Traps
-prefers melee
-great set overall IF your team doesnt move around too much
-one of, if not the, best set for soloing very hard targets
-detonator is twisted fun, esp nice synergy with necro since you can rez your bomber using soul extraction


Necro/Dark will do great at every stage of the game and will really shine once you throw in IOs to beef up your own survival.

MM comments tend to funnel towards bots/FF. Lots of defense, pets are good for ranged attacks, bubble is good for keeping things at range. Damage is good and not smash/lethal.

Bots/traps doesn't have pets at the softcap for defense coupled with a horrible heal. The protector pets are also notoriously bad at reapplying their bubble midcombat not to mention they are only affected by one bubble each and have zero defense to start with and no resistance to smashing to boot(hello all you SS themed enemies).

I really feel Bots/Traps doesn't do aswell vs stronger enemy groups. Not enough def, built in failing cascade via protectors, FFG can be killed or "mispath", no real heals and slots etc. Its well and nice for soloing some AVs due to massive -regen or unproblematic enemy groups, but otherwise i find it lacking.

I mean just compare it to Thugs/Time, you can almost softcap ALL your pets just between Farsight and enforcers. Also you get all 5 pet auras without sacrificing a single slot in your petpowers(which will softcap them all easily) and then you get a -14% tohit aura ontop of that and two AoE heals just to feel better.

Edit: I don't find Beast/ to be squishy at all. On the contrary, the only set that feels tougher is maybe demon(and thats situational depending on what damagetype they face). The lions especially are easily the toughest LTs i have ever seen, between their high resistances and defense plus selfheal. First MM that i set UP the difficulty while fighting vahzilok, and thats plenty tough in my book.

Many can recommend various "Best" and everyone already knows that certain sets outperform others. However, since you are a new MM, I suggest Bots with a secondary that you feel would best fit your overall playstyle. Mastermind isn't really just another AT that works like the rest. It has it's own learning curve and own quirks and as such for your first MM, you want something that is bit friendlier for new players.

I recommend Bots as the first set to all new MM's for various reasons. They are easier to manage in some cases and their survival is easier to manage while you learn the nuances. Demons, Thugs, Necro, ect are all fine choices too and having bots might spoil you a bit compared to them but it will make you appreciate the mastermind a bit more.

As for secondarys, much like if you were a supporting toon, you basically want to choose something that both you enjoy and supports both your own playstyle and the survivability of your pets. Many recommend /Traps, /Dark, /Time or even /Forcefield and they wouldn't be wrong. All have their strength and weaknesses but whats more important is that you have fun with it. /Traps is the busiest of the sets as your constantly on the go establishing a rhythm where as /Forcefield is pretty much the opposite where the only time your busy is keeping the shields up. What others have stated for the secondaries pretty much explain it. /Dark might be one of the more friendlier sets with tools for almost every situation.

The traditional three best primaries are Bots/Thugs/Demons, with Demons edging out just ahead of the rest. Those three are fairly self sufficient, though it seems to me that Bots and Demons moreso due to having heals. I'd rate them as such (recommended secondaries in order):

Demons: High resist, extremely durable boss, high ST and AoE damage, all of which has exotic typing. The Hellfires and the whip attacks have -res which ups the damage even further. One of the lieutenants has a ST heal, AoE heal, and a resist buffing shield that works like maneuvers. The T7 allows for slotting of the Recharge Intensive Pet Uniques All around very sturdy set. Goes well with anything, but the best: Time, Thermal, Dark

Robots: Some good resistance, but the main focus here is defense. The Protector Bots provide strong shielding to everything, two for the boss and minions, one for themselves and you. Most of them do extremely mediocre damage, except the Assault Bot, who's incendiary missiles melt entire spawns. He has two single target attacks that each provide -500% regen, allowing for easy AV/GM soloing. The Protectors also each have a strong single target heal. Good secondaries: Traps, Time, Dark, FF

Thugs: Enforcers have all of the Leadership pool minus Vengeance. The Maneuvers is especially helpful. The Arsonist does ludicrous damage but is a minion, and therefore dies constantly. The Bruiser is very sturdy. I've not much experience with this set. T7 allows for slotting of RIPs. Good secondaries: Dark, Time, Traps, FF, Storm

Necromancy: Zombies do almost entirely toxic damage, which is nearly never resisted. After the second upgrade everyone has a self heal. The Lich is almost unique in the fact that he doesn't run into melee. The Knights do insane damage. T7 allows for slotting of RIPs. Good secondaries: Dark, Time, Storm

Beasts: Great survivability (high def and res), Medium damage, little AoE, extremely limited range. Have loads of self buffs that they use whenever they recharge, and not necessarily when they need them. All but the two normal Howler Wolves have a self heal. The Lieutenants are probably the sturdiest out of all the primaries. Their ST is high with the full 10 stacks of pack mentality. The attacks are actually useful. Good secondaries: Time, Dark, Traps, Thermal, Pain, FF, Sonic

Ninjas: High octane damage dealers made out of paper. Without the proper secondary there is barely a point in summoning the Genin, they fall over with a nudge. The Oni sucks at prioritizing. However, they do ludicrous amounts of damage if you can keep them alive. Good secondaries: Time, FF, Dark.

Mercenaries: This set has almost no synergy with itself at all, rather like Ice Control. Most of their damage comes from cones, yet they WILL scatter mobs. The Medic sounds useful but he just gets himself killed. Clearly the enemy took 'shoot the medic' to heart. The spec ops... They have genuinely useful support powers and SCAR Snipe does heavy damage, but said support powers are on such a ridiculous recharge that you can't count on them. You can salvage some damage with the Achilles' Heel proc, since nearly all of their attacks include -def. Good Secondaries: Time, Dark.... maybe Traps.

Yes, I did recommend Time and Dark on all of them. Those two are just that good.

Also, while everyone has an opinion, if you are really interested in MM's in general, I highly recommend reading Dechs's guide on Masterminds. It will pretty much explain everything on MM primaries and how they perform.
http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2012...astermind.html

There is not best, almost all Combos are awesome, it come down to personal Opinion.

A lot has been said about particular primaries. There are particular combos that are outstanding, more than the sum of their parts.

Bots/time
Bots/dark
Bots/FF
Bots/Traps are obvious

Thugs/Traps
Thugs/Dark
Thugs/FF shine

Demons/Time
Demons/Thermal
Demons/Dark are also obvious groupings

I won't say about Beasts because I haven't played enough combos yet, but I do like my Beasts/Thermal so far

Unexpected pairings

Necro/Dark - this pairing played/enhanced well is a wrecking ball. It's built for destruction. The tohit debuffs with the twilight grasp heals keep the demons chugging along on a tar patch that just makes them more deadly

Necro/Storm - this mastermind pairing seems oxymoronic. Expert use of hurricane to debuff, and if need be, knock back/down spawns again keeps the necros cruising along. Freezing Rain is a key component.

Necro/Thermal - Thermal shields, forge for +damage +tohit and a big AoE heal. Yes, please, and thank you. The big debuffs of thermal come later, but this experience is a big crescendo.

Thugs/Poison - If there were ever a set for poison, it is thugs. The poison set has been recently revamped to include some splash in envenom and weaken. The crowning achievement is Noxious Gas on an Aggressive Bruiser. A high recharge build will keep your team galloping to success. The high recharge is for gang war as much as noxious gas. It's a rock solid combo.

Bots/Storm - For PvE, I do not have a stronger mastermind. My mastermind uses combat tp with a stealth proc along with steamy mist. He drops in next to a spawn and whacks them with gale - no immediate alpha reply to a gale aggro. Before the spawn gets its feet, hurricane pushes to a corner or wall, after which the freezing rain drops. With practice you can coordinate the knockback of the robots pulse rifles to accompany your gale and cane. Move, debuff, rain, Bots blast, you win

I am hesitant to play Demons/ because I've seen the Exorcist way too many times. I am also afraid of zombies, but at least I don't believe in them. Demons on the other hand....

I think I'm going to roll a Necro/Dark/Soul on red side, and a Bots/Traps on blue side. On blue side, I'm really struggling narrowing down the APP. My instinct tells me to go for a +DEF toggle (i.e. Chill Mastery). But thematically Fields Mastery makes more sense with Bots/Traps. I know I don't want Heat Mastery because I just finished leveling an SS/Fire brute and just took */*/Fire on another alt.

My past experience with MM was mostly with a Mercs/FF, which I guess explains why I didn't really take to it if Mercs is that terrible. When I was playing MMs it was also before Going Rogue and I just never went that high on red side because I found it difficult to get attached to the characters. I'm not against playing villains, but Level 50 required alot of time back then and I just couldn't do it on red side. Now that it doesn't matter, I'm deciding that I like the villain archetypes better than the heroes ones.

Anyway, with an MM, what should my slotting goals be? I know that with most toons its softcapped S/L or ranged. Or recharge. But I'm not sure how pets fit into that.

For ninja/ i would recommend nothing besides /Storm. It can keep them alive, no mean feat in itself.

Incidentially /storm is also the only subset that allows slotting recharge intensive pet IOs, which means 10% more resistance and 5% more defense. Ninjas, imho the set with the worst innate defenses, needs these extra IO auras more than any other set. But the real deal with storm is the massive -tohit, a quickly recharging mag 2 stun that stacks oh so nicely with charge masteries EM pulse for 5 mag aoe stun, stealth for better positioning, -recharge and Freezing Rain which almost trivializes content.

P.S.: Hurricane has -range, which has some interesting effects on the AI of some ranged foes.

I rolled a Bots/Traps on Monday night. Played it on Freedom redside for about an hour. I really like the experience so far in PVE, doing one mission and street sweeping. I have it on hold until I get a good Mids build to guide my slotting choices.

One of the things I noticed in Mids is that with a Bots/Traps build I find myself having to make painful power selection choices. There is no truly "useless" power that makes it easy. I have gone all the way up to 50 three times in Mids and realized at the end that I had forgotten either leadership or fighting or both.

So I'm almost going to have to create 2 builds, one where I take all of the primary powers and one where I take all of the secondary powers and hopefully create my uber build with the incarnate level 3rd build.

As far as playing style, does a Bots/Trap MM benefit from having the ranged attacks? Or should I forego those in exchange for more of the tools in the Traps set or power pools? Do pets benefit from Leadership? Can I heal them with "Heal Other" in the medicine pool? I know I'm taking all of the pets/petbuffs in Bots, but can't really find anything "skippable" in Traps.

Bots/Traps is almost unique in that I want everything based on what I'm reading in the power description.

The top three primaries would most likely be:

1. Robotics
2. Thugs
3. Demons

I've only played Forcefield and Pain as secondaries. Forcefield is REALLY good but to the point it's kind of boring.

Edit: Forgot I've done /dark too. /Dark is almost always good.

Anything with Mercs/

Bots/Traps is really good for high defense if thats what you want.

Thugs are great due to Gangwar and leadership and demons for added debuffs and resist/heals. Combined with Dark or Time is win.

I just find them more fun.