Quote:
I'm sure there's a script running around by now of what was covered in the video, but it wasn't just cast times they were reviewing. They're changing Stimulus to be a more "Solo Friendly" power (some form of Debuff/Buff depending on if it targets Critter/Player), and it, and another power they're adding, are going to improve Aid Self's heal by (effectively) 50%. 25% Heal improvement, and a -25% Heal on player from the other powers so you get 50%, and the interrupt is being cut out if you take the new power they're adding (if I recall correctly).
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Originally Posted by ricohdah
3.3s. That's pretty good but still a little high IMHO. I am not saying it should be equivalent to other healing powers since it is from a power pool. But Aid Self has a lower heal percentage, higher end cost (With exception to Dark Regeneration), longer cast time, an interrupt period and a prerequisite power pick. I can live with the most of the drawbacks except for the cast time. The pre-power pick hurts too. The only thing Aid Self has going for it is the fast recharge.
It's great the devs are updating/improving power pools, just wish they would do them all at once. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
I kept Sprint toggled on, my bad. Not used to looking at this power at all.
That said... My Mids is still showing 4,12e/s recovery rather than 4.39e/s (accolades are turned on, maximum end is at 117). Not going to bother figuring that out. Given the numbers you listed I suppose everything makes sense.
Quote:
You got a little mixed up here. The tier 5 power is going to be a self heal that also buffs any heals that are used on you. Just by having this power, aid other has its interruptible period removed and aid self also becomes an endurance heal.
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Originally Posted by John_Printemps
are going to improve Aid Self's heal by (effectively) 50%. 25% Heal improvement, and a -25% Heal on player from the other powers so you get 50%, and the interrupt is being cut out if you take the new power they're adding (if I recall correctly).
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Quote:
I went and double checked cause that still didn't sound right. These are the changes:|
Originally Posted by Garent
You got a little mixed up here. The tier 5 power is going to be a self heal that also buffs any heals that are used on you. Just by having this power, aid other has its interruptible period removed and aid self also becomes an endurance heal.
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Medicine
Stimulant is changed to Injection and can be used on both allies and foes. When used on an ally this has it's normal effect. When used on a foe it debuffs their Recharge, Damage and To Hit.
Field Medic added as Fifth Power, a click power that improves the effectiveness of your heals and decreases your resistance to healing (so that heals done to you are more effective). In addition if you own Field Medic, Aid Other/Self is uninterruptible and Aid Self gives an Endurance Over Time effect as well as a heal.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
Quote:
I double checked and you're right. I was positive that aid self wasn't getting the uninterruptible before, but it is.
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Originally Posted by John_Printemps
Aid Other/Self is uninterruptible
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Got my StJ/Ice to 50, mostly IOed out but with a few important holes here and there - all in all, missing ~35% recharge, fury of the glad -res proc, 7% S/L def, 3% res and some enhancement % in various powers. No accolades or incarnates yet.
First try => 06:54, or 220 DPS, using SB HB AS CU SB HB AS SC, trying to use misc clicks instead of HB as needed.
Seems about right, considering the current build shortcomings, and my original calcs not taking into account AS miss before CU (also forcing a SC use as to get the Hidden status back on CU) and the less than 100% chance to get an AS stack from SB and HB.
Quote:
Would be interesting to see time with T4 Degen if you are going that route, and Musculature.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
Got my StJ/Ice to 50, mostly IOed out but with a few important holes here and there - all in all, missing ~35% recharge, fury of the glad -res proc, 7% S/L def, 3% res and some enhancement % in various powers. No accolades or incarnates yet.
First try => 06:54, or 220 DPS, using SB HB AS CU SB HB AS SC, trying to use misc clicks instead of HB as needed. Seems about right, considering the current build shortcomings, and my original calcs not taking into account AS miss before CU (also forcing a SC use as to get the Hidden status back on CU) and the less than 100% chance to get an AS stack from SB and HB. |
I posted a build yesterday for DB/EA that faces the choice of a 0.1 second gap between SS-Ablating each chain using Musculature, or basically no gap (0.008 sec) using Agility. And I really can't tell which will be better for dps and my sanity. (The gap with Musculature will be less during the first 30-60 secods of Ageless, but definitely 0.1 after that).
-GA
Probably not going to go with T4 Degen in the near future, as it's not as useful as Reactive against low rank stuff in solo play.
Without even checking the numbers I'm willing to bet Musc would be better DPS for your build. 0.1s is a tiny gap to start with. 
Just wanted to say that I've been following this thread with great enthusiasm. I love stalkers, always have, and could not be more pleased that i22 made them into what they were always meant to be - namely the game's premiere single target death engines.
I've been soloing pylons on my StJ/Nin and can reliably take them down in about 2min55sec with no inspirations, Destinies, temps, or Hybrid toggles. I run a variation of ricohdah's chain, replacing IS and SC with HB and SS:
[BU-AS-CU] SB-HB-AS-SS-SB-HB-AS-CU
I skipped SC all together even though I'm aware that it's a better option for single hard targets since it's cheaper, does roughly the same damage, and can take FoG -res. Even so, the vast majority of the game presents few situations where I'd rather fire SC over SS and I found I could use those extra slots to round out my durability elsewhere.
I also slotted with an eye toward endless chaining (with all toggles on) while remaining endurance neutral despite SS's hefty cost.
The main reason my time isn't lower is because I don't make hefty use of procs. Doing so would mean losing some useful set bonuses, which for me just doesn't seem worth it. I like to keep my regen around 300%, defenses at 50% or higher (since /nins don't have very good DDR), +max hp at 135% or higher, and S/L resist at around 25%.
That said if I can find a happy medium I'd love any feedback you guys can offer on the build below.
Also, curious: How are people planning on using the new ATO set when it's released? I've been testing it on beta. The proc isn't a game changer but it can make a notable difference when it happens to fire several times in short succession. The main draw for me are the fantastic set bonuses once catalyzed, mainly the 5% AOE defense. I'm thinking of throwing the whole thing in either HB or SB (the former loses me 3.75 melee defense and the later loses Achilles Heel... decisions...)
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.96
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Grim Saint: Level 50 Natural Stalker
Primary Power Set: Street Justice
Secondary Power Set: Ninjitsu
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Heavy Blow -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), T'Death-Acc/Dmg(3), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(3), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(5), T'Death-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Hide -- Krma-ResKB(A)
Level 2: Ninja Reflexes -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(7), LkGmblr-Rchg+(9), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 4: Danger Sense -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(11), LkGmblr-Rchg+(11), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 6: Assassin's Strike -- SStalkersG-Acc/Dmg(A), SStalkersG-Dmg/Rchg(13), SStalkersG-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), SStalkersG-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), SStalkersG-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), SStalkersG-Rchg/Hide%(17)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(33), LkGmblr-Def(48)
Level 10: Fly -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 12: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(19), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(19), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(21), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(21), GSFC-Build%(23)
Level 14: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Kuji-In Rin -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Spinning Strike -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(23), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(25), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(27), EndRdx-I(27)
Level 20: Kuji-In Sha -- Panac-Heal/EndRedux(A), Panac-EndRdx/Rchg(29), Panac-Heal/Rchg(29), Panac-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(31), Panac-Heal(31), GA-3defTpProc(31)
Level 22: Tough -- HO:Ribo(A), HO:Ribo(33), HO:Ribo(33), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(34)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(34), LkGmblr-Rchg+(36), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 26: Shin Breaker -- GS-Acc/Dmg(A), GS-Dam/Rech(36), GS-Dam/End/Rech(37), GS-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(37), GS-%Dam(37), Achilles-ResDeb%(39)
Level 28: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34), LkGmblr-Def(39), LkGmblr-Rchg+(39)
Level 30: Caltrops -- Ragnrk-Knock%(A)
Level 32: Crushing Uppercut -- EndRdx-I(A), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(40), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(40), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Hectmb-Dam%(42)
Level 35: Superior Conditioning -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(42), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(43)
Level 38: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(43), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(43)
Level 44: Blinding Powder -- CoPers-Conf(A), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(45), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(45), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(45), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(46), CoPers-Conf%(46)
Level 47: Vengeance -- Krma-ResKB(A)
Level 49: Kuji-In Retsu -- SW-ResDam/Re TP(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- HO:Micro(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Heal-I(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Heal(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(46), Numna-Heal(48), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(48), RgnTis-Regen+(50)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(50), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(50)
Level 1: Combo Level 1
Level 1: Combo Level 2
Level 1: Combo Level 3
Level 1: Assassination
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 0: Marshal
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment
Level 50: Robotic Drones Core Superior Ally
Level 50: Rebirth Radial Epiphany
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Portal Jockey
------------
Code:
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The Grim Saint - Virtueverse [1323 Badges]
Haven't put too much thought into it, but at the moment I plan to slot the entire set in HB, which is essentially a "free" set power right now for me (5 CI + 1 mako proc), and the only spot where I can stick a full set without losing a purple damage proc.
Quote:
Actually that appears to be Night Widows - moreso with the upcoming SoA toxic proc. Have you seen the results in the Scrapper Pylon Thread?
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Originally Posted by Grim Saint
Just wanted to say that I've been following this thread with great enthusiasm. I love stalkers, always have, and could not be more pleased that i22 made them into what they were always meant to be - namely the game's premiere single target death engines.
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Another attempt on StJ/Ice, still using SB HB AS CU SB HB AS SC.
05:48 => 238 DPS
Changes since last time: mostly completed the IO part of the build, although I still lack a Panacea set (using DW instead for now), the catalysed ATO set (so I don't always get hidden procs), a Fury of the Gladiator -res, and Mako procs are replaced with endred IOs as I don't have my endurance accolades yet.
Still running into endurance issues despite that, I had to stop at the 04:30 mark for 10 seconds or so waiting for Icy Bastion to come back up. Admittedly, it could be poor EA management.
Edit: another run in which I was much more proactive with EA, which makes sense anyway seeing as I lack the catalyzed ATO proc, inserting an additional click makes sure I get that crit on CU. Kind of got a little screw up at the end, missing an AS and not willing to swap CU for SC as I thought I was just about to win, ending up with two more wrong cycles after that.
05:24 => 246 DPS
Quote:
I like to pretend that the villain Epic Archetypes don't exist so I have a reason to run other archetypes.
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Originally Posted by Granite Agent
Actually that appears to be Night Widows - moreso with the upcoming SoA toxic proc. Have you seen the results in the Scrapper Pylon Thread?
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Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
Quote:
I used to think that too, but here I am with a Fortunata, slowly working her into Hybrid (curse you Rare drops!).
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Originally Posted by Moonlighter
I like to pretend that the villain Epic Archetypes don't exist so I have a reason to run other archetypes.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
Giving it another go on my StJ/Ice. I now have a complete build including all of the previously mentioned missing IOs. I still haven't done my endurance accolades, though. Then again, due to this thread I realised running Chilling Embrace was a mistake, which gave me slightly less end consumption as well as one more power pick -> grabbed Superior Conditioning and threw an additional Perf Shifter proc in it. Which is to say, end is infinitely sustainable now as long as I use EA and Icy Bastion as needed.
Also got Musc T3 and Degen T1 - yep, changed my mind about it due to your post Granite Agent, because I figure why the hell not, instead of Reactive for a change?
...Honestly, I was hoping for some kind of dark green "toxic" graphic, but it's as bright and ill-fitting (for my character) as Reactive. Bah. 
03:15 => 324 DPS
03:59 => 288 DPS
03:41 => 301 DPS
Quite the jump from before.
What are the standards for this. No lore? Hybrid ok?
50s: DM/EA Stalker, Ice/Storm Corruptor, Night Widow / Fortunata, Earth/Sonic Controller, Ice/DB Tanker, Stone/Elec Brute, Bots/FF MM, BS/DA Scrapper, MA/Regen Scrapper.
The dude has got no mercy.
Quote:
No Temp Powers, No Inspirations, No Lore.
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Originally Posted by concu
What are the standards for this. No lore? Hybrid ok?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
Quote:
As John notes, Hybrid is fine but people usually declare which one they are using to help explain things -- also ppl try to post with / without Hybrid times for comparisons.|
Originally Posted by John_Printemps
No Temp Powers, No Inspirations, No Lore.
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No outside buffs/help (except some people use taunters to keep the pylon off them, if they want to measure dps).
I've used Recovery Serum in the past just to measure DPS - but I state it.
StJ/Ice, same setup and attack chain as before, now with endurance accolades. Icy Bastion seems to be enough to sustain my endurance needs now, as long as I don't get unlucky with end procs.
Musc T3, Degen T3 (75% DoT)
04:21 -> 274
03:28 -> 312
03:09 -> 330
03:36 -> 305
03:27 -> 313
...I managed to get killed by a pylon, between run #1 and #2. I tend to let my luck ride after I get hit once, and only use a mitigation click if I see a connected hit icon popping up under my HP bar, but I was one second too late and died while activating Hoarfrost. Embarrassing!
Edit: unlocked Hybrid, had enough to craft T3, went for the far left side (55% chance to get +dam, 3 stacks).
Hybrid on
02:44 -> 361
02:43 -> 363
02:46 -> 358
03:05 -> 335
02:25 -> 392
Hybrid off (passive boost)
03:29 -> 311
03:32 -> 309
03:28 -> 312
Quote:
3.25 |
Originally Posted by Nihilii
StJ/Ice, same setup and attack chain as before, now with endurance accolades. Icy Bastion seems to be enough to sustain my endurance needs now, as long as I don't get unlucky with end procs.
Musc T3, Degen T3 (75% DoT) 04:21 -> 274 03:28 -> 312 03:09 -> 330 03:36 -> 305 03:27 -> 313 |
2.56 - no heal, ageless in middle
3.28 with empower combo (when avail), 1 heal, no ageless
3.13 - 1 heal, ageless in middle
3.25 - ageless at start, ageless in middle
That's T3 Degen, T3 Musc (left side) on DB/EA. Pretty much in line with Nilhil's times, it looks like. I am running regular Leadership: Assault too.
Interesting things: using waterspout or even the empower combo (BU-AS-Placate) seems at worst to lower dps and at best not to improve it. My guess is even the slight delay in actually dps caused by casting WS or using Placate (even with 20% boost thereafter to dmg) is enough to eat up dps at this high level. Kind of a bummer as I thought WS would really help. Maybe in both cases redraw in DB also plays a factor.
For all but the last run I was using recovery serum, as my endo is pretty poor unless I use ageless or click Energize (which eats dps).
Code:
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I got enough to craft Degen T4, so I went and tried the left side before making a choice.
Results:
02:44 -> 361 DPS
02:59 -> 342 DPS
02:37 -> 372 DPS
03:12 -> 327 DPS
02:46 -> 358 DPS
This was without Hybrid. Obviously, this got me thinking. It's almost in the same range as my times with Hybrid ON and the DoT Degen T3!
Hopped on I24 Beta to be able to test and compare the T4s, but it didn't make for a very convincing experience. There are MAJOR bugs in I24. Sweeping Cross activates instantly almost all the time against a pylon. Queued attacks sometimes stop being queued - unless you mash the keyboard like the maniac, in which case they stay queued perfectly. So, don't mistake the following improvements of these numbers, compared to my Live runs, for a mere result of the PPM changes, there's also something else, something weird, at play.
With Degen T4 75% DoT:
01:49 -> 479 DPS
02:14 -> 413 DPS
01:50 -> 476 DPS
02:06 -> 432 DPS
01:52 -> 470 DPS
(Average: 454 DPS)
With Degen T4 75% -hp:
01:45 -> 492 DPS
02:04 -> 437 DPS
01:53 -> 467 DPS
02:02 -> 442 DPS
01:40 -> 511 DPS
(Average: 470 DPS)
So the -HP seems better even at T4 for this particular build... If I am to trust these results. Which I don't think I should entirely, given the aforementioned issues and the limited length of each test. What's more likely is that going one way or the other probably doesn't make too much of a difference.
Edit: just for fun, I used a chain without CU to see how bad SC is broken; basically, AS SB HB SC repeat, with a small unknown gap as my recharge in AS (4.17s) isn't sufficient to chain this with bugged SC.
01:54 -> 464 DPS
02:04 -> 437 DPS
Quote:
That's sad, the Empower Combo should be improving your DPS. I haven't done any calculations but I did do several runs without using it and the difference was significant enough I decided to integrate it in the chain. I don't remember the average times but was probably a 10-15 second improvement (Anything less than 10s, I likely would not have bothered). |
Originally Posted by Granite Agent
Interesting things: using waterspout or even the empower combo (BU-AS-Placate) seems at worst to lower dps and at best not to improve it. My guess is even the slight delay in actually dps caused by casting WS or using Placate (even with 20% boost thereafter to dmg) is enough to eat up dps at this high level. Kind of a bummer as I thought WS would really help. Maybe in both cases redraw in DB also plays a factor.
For all but the last run I was using recovery serum, as my endo is pretty poor unless I use ageless or click Energize (which eats dps). |
DB/Nin: T4 Agility Radial and T4 Reactive Radial, 2:27 for 389 DPS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meyR5mT0LNQ
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
Hopped on I24 Beta to be able to test and compare the T4s, but it didn't make for a very convincing experience. There are MAJOR bugs in I24. Sweeping Cross activates instantly almost all the time against a pylon. Queued attacks sometimes stop being queued - unless you mash the keyboard like the maniac, in which case they stay queued perfectly. So, don't mistake the following improvements of these numbers, compared to my Live runs, for a mere result of the PPM changes, there's also something else, something weird, at play.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-eW_P_NqMg
OK built up to T4 Musc (left side) and T4 Degen (right side). Didn't get to T4 Ageless - so I'm still stuck with 90 sec Agless and I have to click Ageless and Hasten in the middle of the run. I also keep generally having to heal at least once.
[( 38346.4375 / time) + 127.8215 = DPS]
2.45 -> 360dps
2.45 -> 360dps - had to heal twice
2.40 -> 367dps - 3 casts of waterspout (around BU), patron pet for 20 sec at start
3.04 -> 336dps - had to heal, some misclicks
2.54 -> 348dps - 1 heal
DB/EA. Ab-SS-Ab-AS
Will try with empower again.
EDIT
with empower (Placate after BU-AS)
3.02 -> 338dps - 1 heal
3.27 -> 313dps - 1 heal, some pause inducing misclicks and misses
2.54 -> 348dps - 1 heal, misclick (overload - wtf!)
i would have had 2 more runs, but pylon got 2 lucky hits in one and overload (from above) shut off in the middle of the other (doh!)
There was one final run i was probably on the way to a 2.50 time but got killed again in 2 lucky shots. Man that's with Tough running. EA's kinda paper thin I guess. I'm supposed to have 32.4% S/L res with Tough etc.
Anyway, yeh, on these data points it looks slightly worse than not using Empower.
Quote:
Yep, watched yer vid. You have a base 36.5% damage buff it looks like. Mine is only 20% base. We're both running Leadership: Assault. You have a slightly more gapless chain but i have T4 Musc, which I thought would make a bigger difference. |
Originally Posted by ricohdah
That's sad, the Empower Combo should be improving your DPS. I haven't done any calculations but I did do several runs without using it and the difference was significant enough I decided to integrate it in the chain. I don't remember the average times but was probably a 10-15 second improvement (Anything less than 10s, I likely would not have bothered).
DB/Nin: T4 Agility Radial and T4 Reactive Radial, 2:27 for 389 DPS. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meyR5mT0LNQ |
Maybe you have more procs? All I have is Mako (in-game) in AS, Heca in Ablating, and Armageddon in SS ... with the two - RES procs as well. If not, I can't really explain it. Unless in your case your benefit more from the Empower buff because you don't have Musc. But since I'm not at damage cap, one would think 20pct is 20pct.
Your slightly higher (16.5%) natural damage buff may be is offsetting the impact of my T4 Musc? And maybe being slightly more gapless makes up the difference?
I'll see what happens when I get T4 Ageless.
It's great the devs are updating/improving power pools, just wish they would do them all at once.
Now, I've noticed your procs have a different look - I assume store bought ones? Perhaps these are significantly better than the original version, which averages at about +0.2 EPS per 100 end IIRC (hence 3 of these with 117 end should be only about +0.7 EPS, still leaving a 1.3 loss per second or so). That's about the only explanation I could think of, otherwise I'm missing something about what's happening here.
Yes, the PF procs are store bought. I got them when they were broken, procing 3 times per minute and slotting 3 of them provided 11.7 end every 7ish seconds. Of course it was fixed but still is a little better than the standard, procs about once every 45 seconds (Original procs about once every 50 seconds).
Also don't forget I have several IOs that are boosted to +5 so power casting costs are a little lower than what you may think.