I'll just have to see...

I spent the first few days of converter craze buying the pvp io recipes that I can only assume some of you were dumping at bargain prices because, well, for whatever reason. I crafted, kept some, sold some and made a very tidy profit.

And then it occurs to me - what am I gonna do with all this loot? I don't really pvp - at least, not more than 30 minutes every few months. But, I told myself, better to have them and not need them, then want them and not be able to get them.

See, I notice that there were some people that were paying twice as much for recipes as for the IOs themselves.

This means 1 of three things:

1. Several people pressed one too many zeroes.
2. Someone foolishly forgot to read the latest patch notes and wasn't aware that the prices were dropping.

Or
3. They have a lot of the crafted IOs for that recipe for sale, and they want folks to either burn up all their converters to get what they want, or pony up the inf and buy that persons IO at a price that by todays standards is probably about 10 to 20% higher than we've come used to.


I looked, but didn't see any post about Alignment and Astral/Empyrean merits being able to purchase the enhancement converters, but my understanding is that it will be possible soon. And, because for most of us, it's not that big a deal to get a toon to 40 and confirm alignment - even though there will be a cooldown, I suspect it won't take us long to use the other merits to get what we want.

I do see prices rising a little bit over time. How much? Can't say, but my guess is about 600 mill when things calm down. Greed will get the most of some folks, but impatience will get the better of even more people.

Purely conjecture on my part. I could very well be wrong.

I my self put some thought into the dynamics and possible outcomes in regards to the market. What I think is going to happen is a lot more grand scale in a said "domino effect". What I see is a periodic reaction like everything else thats really cool. Like AE merits and profiteering the salvage.

At first, I believe, we'll assume the prices are gonna remain pretty manageable. Which will cause us to make more toons. We are under the assumption that the builds will come easier now. Well, I think the rate of demand will not supply the outcrop of new toons that we "think" we will suit easily. For some of us that are fairly wealthy won't feel much of it.. the question I have is... With the availability and ease of creation/customizing, will we all work on 4 toons now when we usually would only make 1? Multiply that inspiration times thousands and you have a greater demand. The prices could only go up, cause we are a constant rate of income, those influence caches HAVE to compete with eachother. I just don't see the rate of wealth vs rate of demand compromising the other, even if it was aware of the effects. GAWD I hope that makes any sense. Sorry if it doesn't.

For the individual I think it doesn't change much (the time spent getting to a full slotted toon). But for the game in general, I tip my hat to the developers because these past changes have excited the game that almost makes up for the nerfs we all miss. And we all will probably spend the same amount of time/inf getting a toon we would consider fully slotted. Meaning, we lose with a smile on our face.. and they win all the way to the bank. But I'm still happy with the games new appeal(s).

These are just my random thoughts and was scrolling forum topics and saw this which is a great topic.

The Booster packs brought me right back to the days of playing Magic the Gathering. Good post! Thanks for Posting!

I think there's going to be slightly less money available per really high-end build, because people won't need to farm as hard to purple out a character (and because some of the reservoir of inf drained off in the Great PVP Frenzy.) And people who have it will spend it, competing with other people who have it, so... my grand guess is that purple prices will come down to about 75% of their old values for the expensive ones, maybe 2/3 of that for the cheap ones.

I fully understand that with converters, some folks picked up the cheaper pvp ios and made some extra for their foresight.
I can understand the ...inflation of prices on the junk pvp ios. Demand for them goes up, because everyone wants to get them because they're cheaper and use the converters and hope they get lucky.
Nothing new there.

But, people have been willing to pay 2 billion and more for a glad proc.

The thing that really puzzles me is this: I know that the cheaper something is, the more folks that can afford to buy it. However, I think that if, instead of 300-450 mill for the glad armor, we all saw a last 5 sales of 800 million, then we'd all be seeing 700 to 900 million for them.

What crazy person sells an item for 400 million when he is reasonably assured of making 2 billion? Even the folks that get in quick enough to buy a junk pvp io, they either convert and slot, or convert and sell - and they'd love to sell it for billions, rather than 400 million.

People have shown they're more than willing to spend more than a billion on these. Why dump the price down so low? This market forum definitely has more impact on the market than 80% of the player base, I'm thinking.

The gas stations call it price fixing. The two gas stations across the street from each other agree to sell their gas for the same price. Otherwise, they have a price war to see who can go lowest. The end result is neither one makes as much money as they'd like.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. I get supply and demand. But the standard rules don't seem to apply to pvp ios on the whole. Panaceas and glad armors are no more plentiful than javelins, yet they are almost double the price now, and were many more times the price before talk of converters.
Perception is reality. If the playerbase does indeed see 3% def(all) as worth 2 billion, though the supply may increase because of converters, has the greed decreased?

<shrug>

Once again, I suppose I must conclude that I make the crazy assumption that people will compare the price of a recipe and the salvage and crafting costs with the price of the IO they want.

Obviously, this is not the case. At least not with some. (and those of you that bought my overpriced Panacea's, I thank you....I think. )

I appreciate all of your responses. I particularly enjoyed the phrase "prisoner's dilemma".

I suppose I underestimated the desire for a "quick" sell. I had this idea that many of you were far more affluent in terms of inf., that you would be able to sit on your glad procs until such time someone finally ponied up the inf to get it. But, I guess, if you don't sell it at 400 million, someone else will.

Again, thanks for your responses. It's the marketing and the quirky things I see it do that have been keeping me subscribing - although the UGT and MoM trial have helped a good bit, too.

Were you not familiar with the prisoner's dilemma?

Cool, we're educating people and making them evil!

I agree with the "PVP crash" thesis. Apparently the average to make a random PVP into a Glad 3% is something like 40 or 50 converters? Call it 5 Alignment merits , if that code ever goes live.

Something that used to cost 30 AM's is now available for 5 AM's and a junk recipe. Less than 5 if you're willing to settle for another of the "big three". There are around ten times as many junk recipes as valuable ones.

And just in case someone was gonna try and buy up supply to hold the price (a good way to burn hundreds of billions of inf and still lose, if my experience on smaller-scale projects is anything to go by) we're going to start off with a flood of, like, three hundred Glads.

My only envolvement in the converter craze was fairly late compared to those who were aware before me. I paid 100 million for lower PvP crafted enhancements and converted them to defense/resist/heal for my favorite toons. I have no intention of selling them for gain, they will be slotted. I only got my hands on 20 or so. I myself was too slow from lack of interest on trying to land billions. I did not have the foresight from beta/forums etc. I am usually locked into base edit stacking legos. So for me, the converter and acct reward merits were thee answer to the market and this thread altogether. But now that I have them I did open up the flood gate of slotting all my toons with exactly what I want. I didn't post this for any significant contribution other then some added data to your census.

When I get drops that are purple I never sell them. Because of this habit, I think I was one of the few who gained the most from the converter. I suppose I can still make a fair price for the converted purples. I have chosen not too. I suppose it would be wiser to stay out of the market because my needs have already been met.

I am sure there are many like me who avoid the lure of the market. BTW, it never hurts to bid 1,11,111,1111 on items. Since the market is global I have been hard pressed selling items at this price. I am one of the contributors that attempt to augment the demand in favor for the small percentages so people can "GAME ON!"

Just my thoughts.. not trying to be right or wrong.

I didn't even mess with PvP IO's. All I did with converters was buy up some level 15 rares and convert them into low level procs, mostly stealth.

I had a bunch of level 30 recipes that I got from Fulmens and converted many of them and put them on the market.

I think I might have lost money on it overall but I made an extra 3 billion (I know, nothing like a real marketeer could make) over the last month to keep my liquid reserves at 22 Billion. Besides, someone out there can actually use a Trap of The Hunter Triple at level 30.

I had thought about doing that with the cheap sleeps. But, with the exception of the pvp ios, I don't make a habit of buying anything in the market. What good is a farm toon if it can't get that stuff? Although I do have the council empire map and the freak map and the infernal demons on a few toons, hero tips may not be as easily farmed, but they can be run at */8 for purples as well any other mission.

I suppose if I had hundreds of "junk" pvp io recipes, I would have placed them in wentworths at a price I thought they would sell at. It would never have occurred to me to keep them on various alts as recipes until converters made their way to beta.

I have always thought about setting up a pvp io farm. I am slightly better than mediocre at pvp at best. It would be the only way I'd get them aside from a farm or outright purchase.
However, I must not have wanted to that badly, because I never did. Not sure where I would have put them even if had tried. My server is fairly active with pvp. I've little doubts both killer and rezzer would have been laying dead upon my return.

You are correct about one thing for certain. Crafting and acquiring the salvage takes time. Some days, I just put it off until the mood strikes me.