Give Scrappers a real inherent power
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2012-03-23 13:26 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Apology accepted. I was talking about me, not you. I was not, for example, attacking you instead of your argument in this thread. I was attacking your behavior even though I agree (broadly) with your position about Scrappers.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
Ahhh. An attempt to use ad hominem where there isn't any. (If you didn't intend to suggest I AM using ad hominem, apologies. But due to your post structure and wording, it seems you are.)
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| Sorry, but I'm not defacing Geko's argument by attacking his person. I am demanding him to actually provide evidence for his continued-to-be-posted-in-every-thread-related-to-Stalkers-or-Scrappers-ever-argument-that-Scrappers-are-in-danger. Or whatever he's arguing, as it tends to get bogged down. |
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| As it is, I have gone back through this thread. All it is is "Scrappers are not unique". I'm demanding to know why this is a vital issue demanding to be spread across the forums in clear violation to the rules. And since I have been told to follow the rules religiously, I feel obligated to do the same. |
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Moreover, you're contradicting yourself. You say there is justification in enforcing the rules, but it is childish to do so? I am giving him a chance to prove his post ISN'T breaking the rules by answering those questions. If his cause is righteous, he needs to make it more obvious. As it stands, it is in violation to the rules unless there is a legitimate reason. If there isn't, then it's just a violation. I believe in people having chances to explain their actions and choices. Is this wrong? You make it sound like it's wrong for people to have a chance. I don't agree with this. I am giving Geko his chance to provide evidence and fact for his argument, before I pass my own personal judgment and begin my own 'crusade' against his posts. |
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| As a closing to this post; you were using ad hominem against me. Just saying. |
Blue
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WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
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Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
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No you swung the Reppu sword(very sharp one) after I mentioned something that struck the cord of where you were deep down in the first place is all. The passion and vigor in which you leaped in is all you and I take ZERO credit for same.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
... I did just realize I swung a sword due to Khasei. That was a bit foolish of me. Oh well.
Either way, the primary issue at hand is that, even if it IS Khasei who opened the flood gates, it is legitimate enough. And now I'm taking the reins that Khasei dropped. He may have very well did this on purpose to just get someone to actively step up. ... Which I should have realized right away when he didn't confront Geko himself to argue why his case is legitimate. Oh well, I want to give Geko that chance before reporting his posts. He DOES deserve that, even if I firmly feel he's wrong. |
It is ours own it baby.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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1A) So... you're directly attacking me. Noted.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
1) Apology accepted. I was talking about me, not you. I was not, for example, attacking you instead of your argument in this thread. I was attacking your behavior even though I agree (broadly) with your position about Scrappers.
2) And you are making that demand by threatening that, if he cannot produce evidence to an astounding standard of proof (a standard you clearly know he cannot meet even if he tried), that you will attempt to wage war on his posts using the forum rules as a blunt instrument. That combination is what I am claiming is childish behavior on your part - impossible standards of proof no one will ever meet with a threat of punitive action. 3) You feel obligated to threaten others conditionally? I don't think so. If you feel that EG is violating the rules, then report him, period. Don't make that conditional on his success at defending an argument. Otherwise you're being hypocritical - "I'll let you apparently break the rules if I agree with your argument." 4) See above. Breaking the rules and righteous causes have nothing to do one another. If you break the rules under the auspices of a righteous cause, you still broke the rules. 5) Calling your behavior childish was my argument. Ad hominem is attacking you in an effort to deflect attention from your argument. I agree with your argument in the context of this thread. |
2A) You're right, he absolutely cannot. It is actually a somewhatnotreally clever way to convince him to convince himself there is nothing wrong, and this entire 'crusade' is a fraud. I hate exposing my intentions so soon, but what's done is done. Making an impossible situation that demands one to examine their argument is key to winning in a debate that can't normally be won; make the other side defeat themselves.
3A) Read 2A for that, really. I don't want to obliterate his posts until he realizes how wrong he has been, or is given a chance of self-reflection to realize it. Nothing is gained from immediate censoring. It should always be a last resort.
4A) See above.
5A) Then you had no reason to personally attack me and just dragged this all out, yes?
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
No you swung the Reppu sword(very sharp one) after I mentioned something that struck the cord of where you were deep down in the first place is all. The passion and vigor in which you leaped in is all you and I take ZERO credit for same.
It is ours own it baby. |
I had as much reason to post what I have posted as you have to post what you have posted. I objected to something someone else on an internet forum said, and I went about explaining what and why.
I happen to think this thread was doing just fine without the tactics you injected into it quite late in the game. I objected to them. I told you why.
I'm not aware that any of us need any more justification to post something than that.
Edit: By the way, your actions would not lead to censoring of EG's position. One thread would remain. Other threads would be removed. The topic would remain, and no matter how much you dislike it, you could not wield that particular rule to change that.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I'm getting exhausted just keeping up with this discussion and it seems like the entire thing is moot anyway since EvilGeko has not demonstrated any desire to rise to that bait in the first place. Wouldn't everyone be happier to not be arguing about this?
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This thread has been a mess since the original post, I'm sorry. It's ludicrous to even think Scrappers need anything at all, just because Stalkers finally deal more single target damage than them.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I had as much reason to post what I have posted as you have to post what you have posted. I objected to something someone else on an internet forum said, and I went about explaining what and why.
I happen to think this thread was doing just fine without the tactics you injected into it quite late in the game. I objected to them. I told you why. I'm not aware that any of us need any more justification to post something than that. |
And if the excuse is a unique inherit power, then they better overhaul the other three Critical Damage inherit powers as well.
Either way, we agree, but you disagree with me deciding that nearly 30 pages of back and forth can easily end if I force the opposite party to actually give evidence this is a real problem. If they can't do that, this argument cannot exist.
'Threatening' with the forum rules is just realistic of the fact they need to be enforced. Unless the issue IS LEGITIMATE and NEEDS ATTENTION, it will be reported. If it's something that very well threatens the game, then let it be known. Hell, I've done the same with Beast Mastery, which is a legitimate issue. I'd be a hypocrite to report a post that is legitimate.
Thus, my challenge; prove it to be legitimate. The request is difficult, but it may not be impossible. Even answering one or two of those will be sufficient.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
I'm getting exhausted just keeping up with this discussion and it seems like the entire thing is moot anyway since EvilGeko has not demonstrated any desire to rise to that bait in the first place. Wouldn't everyone be happier to not be arguing about this?
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Do you actually visit the internet much? Because I find it hard to believe you actually think you could achieve that.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
Either way, we agree, but you disagree with me deciding that nearly 30 pages of back and forth can easily end if I force the opposite party to actually give evidence this is a real problem. If they can't do that, this argument cannot exist.
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| 'Threatening' with the forum rules is just realistic of the fact they need to be enforced. |
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| Unless the issue IS LEGITIMATE and NEEDS ATTENTION, it will be reported. |
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| If it's something that very well threatens the game, then let it be known. Hell, I've done the same with Beast Mastery, which is a legitimate issue. I'd be a hypocrite to report a post that is legitimate. |
Again, the legitimacy of his argument and whether he is posting it in a way that break the forum rules are not coupled. If this or other threads break the rules, then the extra ones will be deleted. One will remain and the legitimate concerns could be argued in that thread.
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| Then what is the purpose of this thread? Most people disagree with the OP. Is it for the sake of argument? That's ugh. |
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I have, but now you don't want to stand up for yours that have nothing to do with me, like this name calling deal. That's low brow and it will be resolved organically.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
Cowaaaaaaaaaard. Fight for your beliefs or don't claim to have them!
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In the interim I will ask you to cut out the personal attacks and name calling while you are here.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Do you report posts you believe to be in violation of the rules, Khasei?
And by report I mean click on that little red triangle underneath the poster's name to bring it specifically to the attention of the mods.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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I have to agree with this.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
I have, but now you don't want to stand up for yours that have nothing to do with me, like this name calling deal. That's low brow and it will be resolved organically.
In the interim I will ask you to cut out the personal attacks and name calling while you are here. |
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Call it blind optimism then.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Do you actually visit the internet much? Because I find it hard to believe you actually think you could achieve that.
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Left the rest of your post out. Ending our back and forth.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
I have, but now you don't want to stand up for yours that have nothing to do with me, like this name calling deal. That's low brow and it will be resolved organically.
In the interim I will ask you to cut out the personal attacks and name calling while you are here. |
... And I am standing up for them. You're flatly ignoring posts now >_>. You know what? I'm joining the popular opinion when it comes to your posts, now.
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I have...like three times in 7 years. Last night was one of those three times, and before anyone gets any ideas, it was not in this thread, or on anyone in this thread. |
Originally Posted by Bosstone
Do you report posts you believe to be in violation of the rules, Khasei?
And by report I mean click on that little red triangle underneath the poster's name to bring it specifically to the attention of the mods. |
Some crap gets old fast, being called names is one of those things. I try REALLY hard to speak to people on these boards in the same manner I speak to them face to face. I really hate keyboard tough guys/gals. They tend to display attitudes that would result in escalation in a more personal setting. It is that whole "do unto others thing"
Example: If someone called me an ****** retarded American to my face there would be violence soon after, unless it was a lady then I would find my owns degrading harsh words to add to the mix.
The point is there are people here in general that are not respecting the edicts of polite society.
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Why you do this, Zyphoid? Why you agree with Khasei? Why you try to justify him? How does an elongated word come off as serious?|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
I have to agree with this.
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Why, Zyphoid? Why you do this?
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Originally Posted by Zyphoid
I have...like three times in 7 years. Last night was one of those three times, and before anyone gets any ideas, it was not in this thread, or on anyone in this thread.
Some crap gets old fast, being called names is one of those things. I try REALLY hard to speak to people on these boards in the same manner I speak to them face to face. I really hate keyboard tough guys/gals. They tend to display attitudes that would result in escalation in a more personal setting. It is that whole "do unto others thing" Example: If someone called me an ****** retarded American to my face I would violence soon after, unless it was a lady then I would find my owns degrading harsh words to add to the mix. The point is there are people here in general that are not respecting the edicts of polite society. |
I am not defending him, I am stating that we have all been guilty of stepping over the line as of late. How can I chastise when I have done the same thing? Because as you personally know I recognize when I do it and attempt to make it right. I see when it is wrong.
I like most of the people in this thread, I like Darth, I like you Reppu, because of that, not in spite of that, is why I think we need to keep each other accountable. We can do it, or it can get real crappy like it was in the Lighthouse days.
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Well, like me, you at least acknowledge that. It's at least something, in the end.
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Originally Posted by Zyphoid
I am not defending him, I am stating that we have all been guilty of stepping over the line as of late. How can I chastise when I have done the same thing? Because as you personally know I recognize when I do it and attempt to make it right. I see when it is wrong.
I like most of the people in this thread, I like Darth, I like you Reppu, because of that, not in spite of that, is why I think we need to keep each other accountable. We can do it, or it can get real crappy like it was in the Lighthouse days. |
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Hey, I still love my scrappers and want them to get something unique, even if they don't need it. |
Originally Posted by Reppu
Well, like me, you at least acknowledge that. It's at least something, in the end.
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:P
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Even if most of my 50's are Scrappers, I still can't agree with this ;P
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Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Hey, I still love my scrappers and want them to get something unique, even if they don't need it.
:P |
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You're not Khasei, and you kind of missed the post of my asking in any case.|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
I have...like three times in 7 years. Last night was one of those three times, and before anyone gets any ideas, it was not in this thread, or on anyone in this thread.
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He likes to come into threads waving the rules around and pointing at posters. If he's reporting at the same time, it's obnoxious but, y'know, at least he's putting his money where his mouth is.
If he's not reporting while yelling at people for breaking the rules, then it's not the rules he cares about: he's simply airing his grievance over being modded in the past in unrelated threads. Like I said, chip on shoulder.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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This term drives me crazy. IRL Chip is what I go by, and I am not on anyone's shoulder!|
Originally Posted by Bosstone
Like I said, chip on shoulder.
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Yeah I know I am not him, and I know it was not directed at me. The rest is more of what I was trying to get across though.
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Bosstone, everything is going to be ok. I am capable of dealing with the personal attack deal, no need to jump in again drawing attention to yourself. Stepping out of something that you really were not involved would be a good idea at this point. YMMV.
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Originally Posted by Bosstone
Do you report posts you believe to be in violation of the rules, Khasei?
And by report I mean click on that little red triangle underneath the poster's name to bring it specifically to the attention of the mods. |
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Oh, you are just adorable.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Bosstone, everything is going to be ok. I am capable of dealing with the personal attack deal, no need to jump in again drawing attention to yourself. Stepping out of something that you really were not involved would be a good idea at this point. YMMV.
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De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
I am actually surprised we have not all been slapped on the wrist at this point. 
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I know and as long as you don't get a woody over me, everything its going to be ok.
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Originally Posted by Bosstone
Oh, you are just adorable.
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
We're comedy lunch hour.
And yeah, more or less confirmed Khasei's personality. Going with the protocol!
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.