Do you factor in Inspirations when working out a build?
By
Android_5Point9,
Posted on: 2012-03-20 14:46 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Well, it might help if we knew what the AT at least was you're talking about here. But really, there is NO reason to *need* to even get above 25% def. Is it nice? Sure. But before IOs came along, there were very very few builds that could get to the softcap, and yet people played and had a grand time. There is NO magic bullet build, and although many people seem to think so, softcapping isn't necessary at all, nor is it, in and of itself, a guarantee of a good build. The point being, 30% def is very respectable, if the rest of the build is well done and effective. If you're playing a lockdown perma-dom, even 30% def may be overkill in most situations. Yes, all things being equal, more def means large strides in survivability, up to 45%, then more def means just situational increases in survivability. But, the whole game is situational. Softcapping (or even beyond) is situational. Because you can't softacap to *everything*. |
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
Well I'm slightly over-egging the case there, but it's worth pointing out I've only got 3 melee toons to 50 in my time in the game, and they aren't my main toons. My mains are mostly trollers, and the occasional blaster/crupper but all squishy. It's not about bad planning necessarily, I just recognise it's a game and if I leap before I look the worse thing that can possibly happen is I have to hospital.
The reason I ask is that it increasingly seems to me that taking Insp drops into account is a feasible plan and can actually add to my builds. As you and others point out, there's nothing in the game that's infallible (good job too IMO) but if I'm lucky enough to get a high survivability build and then get a few drops that won't hurt either. |
I guess to be brief, yes, it's viable. Will this 32.5% build be awesome for farming at +4/x8 solo? Probably not. Is it possible to be very fun, very viable, and playable, with only ~30% def? Of course! The caveat being, as always, depending on your play style, and expectations. (And of course, what the rest of the build looks like)
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That has nothing to do with factoring them into my builds. I don't to that at all. I make the build as capable as possible, and that thought process does not include "and for the rest I'll use inspirations".
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Originally Posted by Madadh
Which was exactly my point. Everyone builds to be as able to handle as many situtations as possible and plans to rely on the inspires after. You DO plan to use them. You do accept that there are going to be times regardless of build care and tactical care that you will need them.
It's each person's playstyle that define when 'last resort' happens. Disclaimer: Yes, some people use them 'before' last resort situations. But almost everyone plans to use them at or before the last resort option to cover what build and skill can't. |
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I usually don't build with inspirations in mind - I assume I won't have any and then pop the ones I get as bonuses.
The only exception is my DB/SR Incarnate who is built to softcap to incarante mobs after popping a small purple inspiration. I generally use one per mob at +4x8, so I'm quite safe from getting screwed over by the RNG.
When I'm making a build, it's usually just in consideration to defense. I might be able to get smashing/lethal/energy softcapped on a ranged character, and get the other numbers around 33ish percent, which is within "demi-god in 1 purple" status, and that's fine by me. It's when I'm relying on multiple inspirations to cover holes in a build that I start to rethink some of the parts of it.
Generally, I do factor in Inspirations only when a build is as good as it's going to get. At that point I decide what inspirations will be most useful and convert to those.
Like other posters have noted, I see the Inspiration system as the no-opportunity-cost replacement for Armor set Tier-9/short duration emergency powers. As a result, I don't factor inspirations into what normal mission difficulty a character can handle; missions are made of spawns and spawns are all the same.
If the difficulty is too high I'm waiting around for power recharge (more inspirations to drop). If my difficulty is just right I try not to use Inspirations at all unless I have undesirable ones taking up space in my tray.
Currently playing:
Infaerna Who knew Fire/Fire Brutes were fun to play?
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Originally Posted by Android_5Point9
When I'm making a build, it's usually just in consideration to defense. I might be able to get smashing/lethal/energy softcapped on a ranged character, and get the other numbers around 33ish percent, which is within "demi-god in 1 purple" status, and that's fine by me. It's when I'm relying on multiple inspirations to cover holes in a build that I start to rethink some of the parts of it.
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That's an interesting way to look at things... focus on some aspects of Def and then get a reasonable amount on the rest and factor in a Purple to make sure most stuff isn't gonna get you.
I'd not really considered that as an option but I can see how it could be really useful.
Thelonious Monk
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My approach is pretty similar to this. I don't usually bother with hardcore bleeding edge builds and play at whatever difficulty the build can natively handle. Inspirations I just use for "RNG oopsies" and progress speed boosting when I play.
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Originally Posted by Great_Scott
Generally, I do factor in Inspirations only when a build is as good as it's going to get. At that point I decide what inspirations will be most useful and convert to those.
Like other posters have noted, I see the Inspiration system as the no-opportunity-cost replacement for Armor set Tier-9/short duration emergency powers. As a result, I don't factor inspirations into what normal mission difficulty a character can handle; missions are made of spawns and spawns are all the same. If the difficulty is too high I'm waiting around for power recharge (more inspirations to drop). If my difficulty is just right I try not to use Inspirations at all unless I have undesirable ones taking up space in my tray. |
I'd have to say that I too, don't consider inspirations as a part of my "build".
Definitely not. Not even indirectly.
In fact, I have a "standard loadout" that all my toons typcially carry. It consists
of two columns of heals, and two columns of defense... Done. Everybody (in
my stable) runs that way.
The last column is typcially Breakfrees (for Blasters, Stalkers and other squishies)
or Cabs for those toons that are more Endurance intensive than I prefer, particularly
if they don't have a Consume or Power Sink or Conserve Energy type of power.
Given that I run Blasters, Stalkers, Controllers, Khelds, Brutes, and the odd
Tank or Defender (all with the "standard loadout") I think I can safely say that
inspirations play zero part in my build planning.
They are purely for survival if/when the feces contact the rotary oscillator.
Typically, there's nothing that can't be handled (short term) with Moar Health,
Defense, Endurance and mez escapes. 
If they fail to do the trick, the last line of defense (on my squishies at least),
is Phase Shift.
If *that* also fails, it's usually a hospital trip (or pull a wakie out of gleemail).
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
As a follow-up to the prior post, Don't be thinking I don't plan my toons.
I have a Mids' build for pretty much every toon I play (oftentimes more than
just one Mids' plan).
Most of them follow a fairly simple and standard build approach.
Attacks: 60/90 Acc/Dam and as much Rch & Erdx as I can fit.
Core Powers: Ed-max core attributes where feasible and appropriate.
Key IOs: Nearly all of my toons will get a Kismet Acc, a Perf Shifter, a Numina +Reg,
etc. Most of my squishies get a Stealth IO, and a Karma.
Set Bonuses: As I tend to play damage dealers, I also tend to prioritize Rch
first before defense (dead targets require no defense), so I generally sprinkle
a few LotG 7.5% IOs in most builds also.
AT specific things come into play as well, so for /WP I tend to focus on Resist
and Regen as a build goal -- ie. Layered defenses are *always* better than
straight-up +def.
PB's, Blasters and Stalkers, I like to look at +HP bonuses and accolades.
I also plan using Frankenslotted sets with decent ability to exemplar down into
the mid-L20's or so.
You get the idea.
Mind you, *none* of that considers inspirations at all, as mentioned previously.
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
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Well, until they introduce +recharge inspirations, it'll be my standard. |
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
That's an interesting way to look at things... focus on some aspects of Def and then get a reasonable amount on the rest and factor in a Purple to make sure most stuff isn't gonna get you.
I'd not really considered that as an option but I can see how it could be really useful. |
For ranged characters it usually means picking up Scorpion Shield or Ice Armor from an ancillary pool and supplementing that with Weave, Maneuvers, Combat Jumping, etc. For my /traps corruptor I could have gone softcapped to everything, but it meant sacrificing some recharge, losing perma-hasten, and giving up an aoe immobilize and a pet. So, I prefer my method in that case.
I only generally do on farming builds, where I know I can depend on a very healthy supply of inspirations.
Though the "take defense to 32.5 and rely on eating purples" idea does have a lot of merit, and would likely open op a wider assortment of builds.
I have an nb/elec Stalker that I built with inspirations in mind. He has incredible survivability numbers: lots of +hp, ~60% s/l res, capped energy res, high to moderate resistance to everything else including psi, and around 32.5% defense to e/ne/f/c (soft-capped to melee/lethal with DA). So he's tough as nails normally and, if I ever find myself in an "oh crap" moment, 1 small purple away from being nearly unkillable against most normal, non-incarnate content. That's good enough for me, because i would have had to sacrifice too much offense to put in more defense.
So, as to the op, yeah I think it makes a lot of sense to consider all of the "real world" scenarios and figure in inspirations as a fairly reliable source of extra oomph in a pinch.
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I was half-asleep when I wrote that and I don't even remember what I wrote so I apologise for the seemingly heated post.|
Originally Posted by Madadh
@Kangstor: Yes, I do realize that. And while I'm very tempted to get into a debate on the role of the subconscious in decision making and whether or not semantics allow the word 'consideration' to apply to subconscious thoughts in a decision, I think it fairly clear at this point that you're just trying to bait a heated response if you've got bring Mars into the conversation. Although, I have to admit, I admire the 'out of this world' wordplay. Well done. I'll just decline the baiting invite though at this point, because it would only serve to go further off topic and really, niggling over precise word definitions at this point in no way helps the OP or addresses his or her question.
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However I stand my ground basicly according to your thinking I am taking into consideration of my internet connection, my graphic card, my cpu, my keyboard, my mouse etc too when making a build since all these effects my performance and play style no matter how small they seem to be or how unaware of that and this just sounds wrong.
On the topic; For some builds I take consideration of inspirations. For example I added back elude into my katana/super reflexes scrapper for DA content because my normal content softcapped build couldn't survive in DA without some external help. So my choices were either using one luck in every minute, using my destiny and using a luck in every 1 min and 30 second or using elude and using my destiny when it starts blinking and using a blue of any kind when my endurance crash but before DA content I never took inspirations into consideration into this build and I was walking around with a full inspiration tray with same inspirations for weeks not even using reds or turning things into red.
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Originally Posted by Kangstor
I was half-asleep when I wrote that and I don't even remember what I wrote so I apologise for the seemingly heated post.
However I stand my ground basicly according to your thinking I am taking into consideration of my internet connection, my graphic card, my cpu, my keyboard, my mouse etc too when making a build since all these effects my performance and play style no matter how small they seem to be or how unaware of that and this just sounds wrong. On the topic; For some builds I take consideration of inspirations. For example I added back elude into my katana/super reflexes scrapper for DA content because my normal content softcapped build couldn't survive in DA without some external help. So my choices were either using one luck in every minute, using my destiny and using a luck in every 1 min and 30 second or using elude and using my destiny when it starts blinking and using a blue of any kind when my endurance crash but before DA content I never took inspirations into consideration into this build and I was walking around with a full inspiration tray with same inspirations for weeks not even using reds or turning things into red. |
Apology accepted, though really unnecessary. People disagree, it happens.
You are of course welcome to stand your ground, and as tempting as it is to get back into that fun little debate, I'm gonna resist. I really do think at this point we're into semantics to such a degree to have no real relevance to the crux of the OPs question.
Also back on topic: I think it just makes sense to take inspirations into account to at least some degree when making a build. Even if you consider them, then dismiss them. But they aren't an insignificant part of the game. For example, I play a fair amount of non-melee types. Which means (other than Doms and VEATs) I can get mezzed a lot and have very little super solid mez-mitigation options. I feel it's silly not to consider BFs vs other options for mez protection. MANY people tell me, just eat a BF and don't bother with Acrobatics, or trying to slot Aegis, etc. That's a viable option, but it's really just a random guess if you don't consider inspirations at all. You have to include them in the build plan if you're choosing not to take a power or slot an IO based on the ability of inspirations to do a serviceable enough job to satisfy your performance objectives. That said, I don't think one choice is always going to be better than any other, but if you fail to even consider an option, your final choice may be flawed and you wouldn't even know it. And basically, your choice would then be the same thing as a guess.
I definitely factor in inspirations when building. I also factor in computer speed and internet connection. For example, stalkers sucked for me before I22 as with high latency, I always got AS interrupted (and lost end for nothing) as the server still considers me to be moving for an extra 1/5th of a second everytime I stop. Likewise, I used to build for more survivability overkill when I used a rig where FPS would drop to single digits.
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If it's a difference between softcapping and getting a little more recharge to have that big attack power come up faster, I go with the recharge and let insp handle the rest as you mention in your first few lines.
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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
I was working on a build in Mids the other day and discussing with a friend and we worked out we could get a couple of abilities to the soft cap quite nicely - but others would be way down.
An alternate slotting gave a far more balanced outcome across most of the relevant Defence types, but was below the cap on all of them but not by much. After some trial and error we both came to the conclusion that the balanced build was undoubtedly the best all round, but not quite there. But it occurred to us that popping a small purple would get us very very near to the cap and a medium/large would take the build well over it. There was also enough resistance in the build that one small purple and one med orange would give a very well balanced and very tough all round character that could stick around in a hot zone for quite a while. That was something I'd not considered before - I normally just go for what Mids tells me and that's it. But then, that's silly, right? I mean, inspirations are there to be chomped, it's their purpose in life and if I can leverage enough balance that one small insp is going to change my life, that's good right? Except, what happens when I don't have one and I'm getting my backside handed to me on a shiny silver platter courtesy of whoknowswhatnastynesswrappedupintheformofanAV? Even if I know the bind to combine three insps into one and pop it, there's no guarantee in a tough fight that I'd have what I need. So that leaves me torn. In an ideal world, of course I'll build everything to the soft cap and beyond... but that's not really doable in the real world. However in general game play, it's a pretty tempting prospect to just bank some purple insps and keep popping them as required and worry about the boss fights on the rare occasions they happen. I'm just curious as to how others solve that conundrum |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
I take insps into account, but not for defense. I take into account that I'll usually have healing, endurance refils and mez protection on all my characters, so I don't have to worry too much about situations getting too out of control.
For instance, on my controller, i swore on the Psi mastery pool for YEARS because "zomg mez protection!" (and also it was before all APPs had AoE attacks). But now? I have soft-capped defenses, and if i DO get mezzed, i just pop a BF. No big deal. Easier than trying to keep up a 90 second power with a 360 second recharge perma =P
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
It's each person's playstyle that define when 'last resort' happens.
Disclaimer: Yes, some people use them 'before' last resort situations. But almost everyone plans to use them at or before the last resort option to cover what build and skill can't.
I completely see what you're saying... but I'm not sure if your notion is slightly off the main topic here. I mean sure, Insps are part of the game, so to ignore them or not use them is almost impossible - it'd be like a blaster not using their T1 & T2 primaries at all.
I'm more interested in knowing if people actively factor the use of insps when designing a build. Do players think "yeps that's one small purp off the cap, that works" (as some clearly have done in this thread, or do they go for the best build evah(tm) and take no account of insps in that build? What I take from your posts are generally the latter.
Thelonious Monk