Help! Not Enough Buttons! (Fire/Dual Blades)
By
Blackleviathan,
Posted on: 2012-03-16 14:22 in Tankers
Multi Buttoned mouse?
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Err, I do have a good mouse with a few buttons, but it's over there -->>
I do my 'driving' and targeting with my right hand on the NumPad, especially during combat. That's why none of my in-battle powers are on my #4 and #5 Trays... I'd have to 'mouse' to use them.
Mouse is great for click-to-move and Teleport and doors & blinkies, but I'm not going to try to steer with it and you can't Strafe with it, at all! Need strafe to aim the cones. It's another reason why I'm not enjoying DCUO that much.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Quote:
Sands of Mu taking up prime power tray real estate??? *IF* I have it in my tray, it's in alt-5 maybe.|
Originally Posted by Fireheart
1 = Sands of Mu, 2 = Power Slice (aka 'reset combo'), 3 = Nimble Slash, 4 = Ablating Strike, and 5 = Typhoon's Edge.
Alt-1 & Alt-2 are Blackwand and Nemesis Staff for the occasional Ranged attack. Alt-3 = Taunt - It's just too useful to skip, and Alt-4 = Blinding Feint. |
My best suggestion: get the Blackwand and Nemesis Staff out of there. Put them in a keybind. I take one *OR* the other on every toon and use the following keybind:
alt+f "powexecname Nemesis Staff$$powexecname Blackwand"
The bind tries to fire off both, but the character only has one so it fires that one and the rest of the bind does nothing, not even an error message. If you have both powers on every toon, set up two keybinds. Keybinds are ideal for something that is the same ACROSS EVERY CHARACTER.
In the same vein, I have a bind for Recall Friend on every character. If I accidentally hit the bind on a character that doesn't have the power, nothing happens - no error, no animation, nothing at all.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
So, wait, exactly how are your moving, steering, and targeting controls set up? Are you using wasd for movement? Are you using q and e for looking left and right? What is on the numpad? Your setup sounds *extremely* different from mine, so it's hard to suggest new binds without knowing what keys you're already using for what.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
Yeah, I'd move the vet reward attacks out of the hotkeys. 1-5 (and their alt and ctrl variations) are all commonly used powers for me. If I use it semi often and want to find it easy, it goes 6-0 on the first tray. You really shouldn't be using the vet attacks commonly, especially when you have so many combos as it is. I understand using the vet attacks at early levels, but still using them later (especially with a weapon set and all that redraw it causes), I don't see why putting them farther away on the tray and clicking them (or still using the key for them) is hurting anything.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
... Alllright... I guess I'll just have to show you:
Code:
ADD "target_enemy_far" NUMLOCK "nop" NUMPAD0 "target_enemy_near" NUMPAD1 "+left" NUMPAD2 "+down" NUMPAD3 "+right" NUMPAD4 "+turnleft" NUMPAD5 "+backward" NUMPAD6 "+turnright" NUMPAD7 "nop" NUMPAD8 "+forward" NUMPAD9 "nop" NUMPADENTER "target_enemy_next" SUBTRACT "target_enemy_prev"
Seems to me like the best/only choice is to take a page from my Kheldians and make a rotating bind that cycles each combo on a single button. Either by re-mapping the key, or doing a tray-shift. I can set up another floating tray to 'monitor' the attack-timers for all of these attacks.
So, I would push 3 - 3 - 3 for Empower, 4 - 4 - 4 for Attack Vitals, 5 - 5 - 5 for Weaken, and eventually Alt-4 - Alt-4 - Alt-4 for Sweep. 2 would remain 'reset'.
How else could I do it?
Be Well!
Fireheart
Go into keymapping and change keys from numbers to letters.
Every time I make a new toon 9/0 -> Q/E, and ALT+9/0 -> ALT+Q/E.
Quote:
I'm not sure how you mean this...|
Originally Posted by VKhaun
Go into keymapping and change keys from numbers to letters.
Every time I make a new toon 9/0 -> Q/E, and ALT+9/0 -> ALT+Q/E. |
You're saying to map the right half of the power-trays to the top row of letters? Hmm, or even Skip 'Ctrl' and map the third tray to those letters?
Or are you suggesting that I Not control my character with my dextrous right-hand, but try to put All of my controls under my (comparatively) may-as-well-be-a-Brick left-hand?
Be Well!
Fireheart
Quote:
I suggested as my example rebinding 9 and 0, to Q and E respectively. If you can hit 1-6 with your left hand now, you can hit Q and E. With alt modifier you already use that's +4 keys. With CTRL it's +6. |
Originally Posted by Fireheart
I'm not sure how you mean this...
|
I use WASD to move. If you don't that gives you W between QE. Three keys by three modifiers is an entire powerset without doing anything you didn't say you already do. Add in R, which is easier to hit with either modifier than 5, and you've got 4x3=12 new keys.
I don't see how the right hand is relevant unless you're just trying to segway into telling us all about your underground hipster control scheme we've probably never heard of.
Personally, I don't usually go past 4. I'm an action gamer and in most shooters I don't even use numbers to change weapons. I'll switch ONCE with numbers and use a 'last weapon' key if the weapons are too far apart scrolling with the wheel. If when playing an MMO I can't get away with 1-4 and Q/E with modifiersl (6x3=18 buttons) I give up #1 to a rotating macro, occasionally using 5 for unusual skills, but mostly using only the five buttons (including QE, which are rebound 9/0 slot keys -NOT- binds so they also rotate) per bar very carefully chosen.
Bar 1, #1 = Macro to go to bar 2.
Bar 2, #1 = Macro to go to bar 3.
Bar 3, #1 = Macro to go to bar 1.
(Simple Loop)
You can also do this with assassins to do your positional from stealth that you don't use again.
Bar 1, #1 = Macro to go to bar 2.
Bar 2, #1 = Macro to go to bar 3.
Bar 3, #1 = Macro to go to bar 4.
Bar 4, #1 = Macro to go to bar 2.
(Manually click to 1 with your assassin moves, use them, cycle to 2, and now you're looping between your combat bars.)
If that trips you up, you can also loop just two bars using specific buttons.
Ranged and melee bars for example:
Bar 1, #1 = Macro to go to bar 2.
Bar 1, #5 = Most commonly used ranged attack
Bar 2, #1 = Most commonly used melee attack.
Bar 2, #5 = Macro to go to bar 1.
So this way you don't even need to keep track of what bar you're on. If you need a melee attack you double tap 1 and you'll do it, even if you were already on bar 1. If you need a ranged attack you double tap 5 and you'll do it even if your on that bar already. Once you know you're on the right bar, you continue as normal with the other ranged or melee skills on it.
You can set up similar loops for alt+, and ctrl+ bars (3 bar loop, x3, = 9 bars. CoH/V gives you 10 so you'd still have a clicky box) or you can have the macro on the first bar also cycle the top bar, though the command to cycle the alt bar is not known to me the system is robust and I have no doubt it's possible. Combining the cycling of both (or all three) bars will give you more buttons because you only need one key (#1) rather than three to cycle with, but they will limit you to only very specific combinations since they don't cycle independently.
Some games can use shift as an additional modifier, as well as ctrl+alt, ctrl+shift+alt, ctrl+shift, and alt+shift. Because I play shooters these are counter-intuitive to me because mentally I consider shift a sprint or walk key, and a double modifier is not realistic when moving with WASD because it rules out moving in certain directions when you're hitting three keys at a time, but if you're an MMO player with none of these concerns you could get real sophisticated.
Quote:
Clever point - You're right, I could put those Vet-attacks that I consider useful onto Alt-QWE and gain enough prime real estate to fill in the rest of my attacks. I wouldn't use the un-modified letters, since I Do, sometimes, use those when chatting.|
Originally Posted by VKhaun
I suggested as my example rebinding 9 and 0, to Q and E respectively. If you can hit 1-6 with your left hand now, you can hit Q and E. With alt modifier you already use that's +4 keys. With CTRL it's +6.
I use WASD to move. If you don't that gives you W between them. Three keys by three modifiers is an entire powerset without doing anything you didn't say you already do. I don't see how the right hand is relevant unless you're just trying to segway into telling us all about your underground hipster control scheme we've probably never heard of. |
As for WASD, I've never been able to figure out how a person is supposed to use those to move and the Numbers for attacks.
As for my 'hipster control-scheme', it's a barely modified EverQuest layout.
Yes, it's 'old-school', but it works for me.Be Well!
Fireheart
Bump because I'm at work and edited the above post many times.
Apologies to anyone quoting me for a reply during this time.
I am now finished unless I spot a type-o or something minor.
I have no idea why a temp power is in your number 1 slot. Most people are 1,2,3,4 for ST attacks, they could be something like alt 1,2,3,4 for AoEs. Buffs say its a Empath, Clearmind could be C, Fort could be F, G for heal aura, H for Heal Other. You got keys around the Numpad, you would stop to heal someone so you could go /+1 select player 1. I think seeing as you have played the same way since Everquest you might be set in your ways and the only thing that's going to be right is going to have to come from you.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Quote:
When you open a chat box it doesn't fire skills on QE, it types the letters. Just like you can type numbers with the chat line going.|
Originally Posted by Fireheart
I wouldn't use the un-modified letters, since I Do, sometimes, use those when chatting.
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fireheart
As for WASD, I've never been able to figure out how a person is supposed to use those to move and the Numbers for attacks.
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Not because I'm a show off, but because timing is important in games with static spawn locations so early in the round you want to communicate without losing ground, and typing during a fire fight makes the other guy try to do it too, and then you shoot him. XD
Are you only using three trays? I have three stacked in the lower right (kind of like you do), and that's for all the main powers I use all the time. I have two other trays elsewhere for all the extra powers we keep getting in game and that I only use so often, like the Oro Portal, etc. I even have the Incarnate powers in those, since my other trays are usually full with earlier powers that I still use with some frequency. Maybe it's just my background in a lot of FPS games, but I don't really find it problematic to move about and click on things on the screen at the same time.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
You're right, Pilgrim, I simplified the screenshot by only showing the core 3 trays. I actually default to 5 trays, with Booster-Pack, Veteran, Day Job, and Temporary powers that I don't try to use while running or fighting. My Masterminds have started using a 6th tray for purely Pet-related powers and macros, and I'm still figuring out how I want to arrange that.
I think VKhaun's concept of co-opting the Q-row for those Vet-attacks that I still find useful is going to be the winner for me. I can even think of a couple of other items that I wish were more convenient and I could drop those into the 'virtual tray' as well.
New Dawn - Instead of 1 2 3 4, my core buttons are 2 3 4, with my Pinkie on Tab and my thumb on Space. This leaves 1 and 5 as 'conditional' buttons - for instance, my Dark Melee toons balance Sands of Mu in 1 and Shadow Maul in 5, for the old double-flailing cone, AKA 'Ha-Hah! I got you once and now I'll get you again!' Tab is also 'conditional' since it has my crystal/quantum/void targeting macro, for my Kheldians.
You are right, though, that I'm unlikely to make radical changes to my control-scheme. I played EQ for 8 years, before I switched to CoH, and I've played this for another 6 years, so I've become completely habituated. A friend induced me to try DCUO and it's been interesting, but a Constant trial, because DCUO is locked into different controller-scheme - it cannot be controlled with the keyboard.
Thanks for all of your suggestions, I'll try this out and let you know how it goes.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Quote:
Okay, you've got a ton of stuff in the trays that there's no reason to have there:|
Originally Posted by Fireheart
|
Rest, Sprint, Ouro Portal, Pocket D Teleporter, GvsE Jump Pack, etc.
Anything that is common across all characters should be in a keybind to free up tray space.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
I use a control pad. I have no problem reaching all my commands. 
If I found myself lacking tray space and I were wasting some of it on vet attacks/pets or the fortune-telling power, I'd have no trouble sacrificing one or more of them.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Sweet zombie Jesus that's a terrifying mess of powers.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
Quote:
Well, I'm not going to be reaching the right half of these trays with my left hand... well, except, sometimes I manage to contort my way to Alt-0 while I'm in motion, so I can smoothly Jump Jet over a tall object.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Okay, you've got a ton of stuff in the trays that there's no reason to have there:
Rest, Sprint, Ouro Portal, Pocket D Teleporter, GvsE Jump Pack, etc. Anything that is common across all characters should be in a keybind to free up tray space. |
The notion of setting a key-bind for all of the powers that are common to all toons is... sorta what VKhaun was advocating. I can see my way to doing that with several of those powers, but the 9s and 0s are... wanted, just not used in combat. The right half of trays are all toggles, or teleport-clicks - I either need to See them Running, or have them within easy reach. Granted, I don't actually need the 3 teleports on my main trays, but I do need the rest, so I can toggle them up quickly after being de-toggled.
I've been considering tucking a spare tray, vertically, against the right side of the screen, for those common auxiliary powers. I could see re-sorting a lot of common powers off to the side, like that. It might please my Masterminds to clear space in tray 3 for summons and commands.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Starflier
Sweet zombie Jesus that's a terrifying mess of powers.
|
Be Well!
Fireheart
Lol you have a weird control scheme...
But mind is probably weirder. I use the numpad to move as well but then I use the numpad's arrows to move (so Num2 = back, Num4 = turn left, Num6 = turn right, Num8 = forward, Num5 = down flight) and I also use my thumb on the arrow keys as alternate movement keys with left and right arrows being strafe.
Funny that, the scheme provides more key configs. While my left hand uses 1-5 (occasionally 6 too) as well as ALT+1-5, I can also map powers to NumLock, Num/, Num*, Num- and Num+. This could easily be the the part of the tray setting on 6-0, basically splitting the tray between each hand.
Also, pet peeve...I CAN'T STAND A FULL TRAY LIKE THAT!! How can anyone survive...looking at a full tray of 30 powers!?! I have to leave space somewhere on each tray, usually using a space or two to provide visual separation...my travel powers will be in one corner (or all powers controlled by the right hand will be to the right with an empty spot somewhere before the buttons controlled by the left), often used are at the bottom left, lesser used are mid left, then targeted powers like Teleport or summons are at the top left, armors on the lower right, swapped toggles, like Ninja Run/Super Speed or temp toggles like Darkest Night go on the top right controlled by the right hand....meh, it's all rather strange...It took me a while to finally get to the system I use but I need visual space in a tray to help keep things organized. I'd sooner have 6 or 7 trays on screen before I'd fill up a tray like you have there
Quote:
Well, as I noted up-thread, I have a ton of powers in keybinds to free up tray space. Despite that, my main character uses 6 trays. |
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Also, pet peeve...I CAN'T STAND A FULL TRAY LIKE THAT!! How can anyone survive...looking at a full tray of 30 powers!?!
|
Without logging in to check, I would estimate that he has 4 open slots across all six trays. And the main reason for those is so that temp powers in the iTrials have a place to drop so I don't have to search my powers window.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Quote:
That power tray hurts my eyes X_X all your powers are all over the place!!!
|
Originally Posted by Fireheart
... Alllright... I guess I'll just have to show you:
Code:
ADD "target_enemy_far" NUMLOCK "nop" NUMPAD0 "target_enemy_near" NUMPAD1 "+left" NUMPAD2 "+down" NUMPAD3 "+right" NUMPAD4 "+turnleft" NUMPAD5 "+backward" NUMPAD6 "+turnright" NUMPAD7 "nop" NUMPAD8 "+forward" NUMPAD9 "nop" NUMPADENTER "target_enemy_next" SUBTRACT "target_enemy_prev" Seems to me like the best/only choice is to take a page from my Kheldians and make a rotating bind that cycles each combo on a single button. Either by re-mapping the key, or doing a tray-shift. I can set up another floating tray to 'monitor' the attack-timers for all of these attacks. So, I would push 3 - 3 - 3 for Empower, 4 - 4 - 4 for Attack Vitals, 5 - 5 - 5 for Weaken, and eventually Alt-4 - Alt-4 - Alt-4 for Sweep. 2 would remain 'reset'. How else could I do it? Be Well! Fireheart |
VIG0S: 1356 badges in counting
Something for ppl to use
Quote:
Okay, then please show me how you would do it?|
Originally Posted by Blackleviathan
That power tray hurts my eyes X_X all your powers are all over the place!!!
|
Be Well!
Fireheart
the On1 and On2 macros are to turn on toggle powers like shields/defence things... but just in case all those shields n stuff are in the same tray all by each other. Then have two buttons bound to move the main tray with just 1 row showing back and forth between trays 5-9 cause i dont use those much.
and binds to pop Insps.
I keep the attacks together just for more fluid attacking. and like heals all together within the same tray. not sure if you have to stretch out the three stacks each time you log in.. but that would bother me after a while, sry 
i might be the only one that does it like this but i like all my powers layed out infront of me for the most part.
and
VIG0S: 1356 badges in counting
Something for ppl to use
Hello, fellow Tankers, I need help!
So, my Fire/DB Tanker has reached L36 and I've unlocked and slotted the third Combo, Attack Vitals... And there's just not enough Room on my power trays to handle all of these attacks! Not with buttons that I can reach with one hand, at least.
1 = Sands of Mu, 2 = Power Slice (aka 'reset combo'), 3 = Nimble Slash, 4 = Ablating Strike, and 5 = Typhoon's Edge.
Alt-1 & Alt-2 are Blackwand and Nemesis Staff for the occasional Ranged attack.
Alt-3 = Taunt - It's just too useful to skip, and Alt-4 = Blinding Feint.
This set-up allows me to 'waltz' my left hand through the combos at will and it has served me fine for many levels... But now I have a new combo, requiring two new attacks, and.. I'm out of buttons I can reach with one hand!
Sure, there's 6 and Alt-5 and Alt-6... but those are all for the Fire! 6 = Healing Flames, Alt-6 = Consume, and Alt-5 is Buuuurnnn! Yeah, baby!! <cough> Sorry.
Tray 3 can be reached with 'Ctrl' but I dare you to try that with one hand, without tying your fingers into a pretzel!
So, I need a reasonable way to activate my Combos with fewer buttons. Does anyone have a suggestion?
Be Well!
Fireheart