Blaster Issues - Increased Damage Modifier (Ranged and Melee)
By
Another_Fan,
Posted on: 2012-02-27 14:19 in Blasters
Nope. Blasters need the ability to use their attacks before they are defeated. My pet peeves are:
Excessively long animation times on the melee attacks. The damage scale is fine. As a "King of Damage" blaster, I should be able to get 2 or 3 melee attacks in, in the time it takes the mobs to get in 1.
Short ranged long animating tier 3 blasts. These are a guarantee that a mob is going to get to melee range and get a shot in on you. A nice standardization would be 40 feet of range for every second of animation time.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
I personally think their DPS should be higher than any other AT.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Quote:
Agreed. Poor Blasters.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I personally think their DPS should be higher than any other AT.
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Currently on Virtue:
Jinrazuo - Crab Spider
RWZ All-Pylon Solo Run
Just as an fyi, Ill list AT dmg modifiers.
AT/ /Melee/ /Ranged/ /Cap
By melee:
Scrap/ /1.125/ /0.5/ /500%
Dom/ /1.05/ /0.95/ /400%
Blaster/ /1.0/ /1.125/ /500%
Stalker/ /1.0/ /0.6/ /500%
Tanker/ /0.8/ /0.5/ /400%
Brute/ /0.75/ /0.5/ /775%
Corr/ /0.75/ /0.75/ /500%
Def/ /0.55/ /0.65/ /400%
Troller/ /0.55/ /0.55/ /400%
MM/ /0.55/ /0.55/ /400%
By range:
Blaster/ /1.0/ /1.125/ /500%
Dom/ /1.05/ /0.95/ /400%
Corr/ /0.75/ /0.75/ /500%
Def/ /0.55/ /0.65/ /400%
Stalker/ /1.0/ /0.6/ /500%
Troller/ /0.55/ /0.55/ /400%
MM/ /0.55/ /0.55/ /400%
Scrap/ /1.125/ /0.5/ /500%
Tanker/ /0.8/ /0.5/ /400%
Brute/ /0.75/ /0.5/ /775%
If you think their damage modifier should be increased, by how much should it be increased (if at all)?
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I'm not really sure how much of a damage mod increase the game can support, but it'd be nice to get our ranged damage mod to 1.2 or 1.25 at least. I think to 'fix' the AT solely through a damage mod increase would require a much higher one than that though which would likely do horrible things to game balance.|
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Just as an fyi, Ill list AT dmg modifiers.
... If you think their damage modifier should be increased, by how much should it be increased (if at all)? |
As an aside though, it's always kind of bugged me that the melee ATs use their melee damage modifier for their few ranged attacks. I mean, I understand why they changed it over, but why not just bump their ranged damage mods instead.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
Quote:
Zero change. No one else at range is even at 1%. Blasters are by far the king of range unquestionable, as designed.
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Just as an fyi, Ill list AT dmg modifiers.
If you think their damage modifier should be increased, by how much should it be increased (if at all)? |
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
Quote:
As I mentioned just above Scrappers use their melee modifier in place of their ranged one. So they have a 1.125 mod for both melee and range attacks. Stalkers should be using their melee mod for their ranged attacks too. Granted, neither of those ATs are heavy ranged ones.|
Originally Posted by Chyll
Zero change. No one else at range is even at 1%. Blasters are by far the king of range unquestionable, as designed.
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VEATs have both a melee and ranged mod of 1.0 and I believe nova form for khelds bumps their ranged mod effectively above the 1.0 level. I might be slightly mistaken on that last one though.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
Quote:
If blasters are the "king of range" as you so eloquently but it then why I ask why does Psy blast for corruptors and defenders have longer range for their attacks then blasters?
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Originally Posted by Chyll
Zero change. No one else at range is even at 1%. Blasters are by far the king of range unquestionable, as designed.
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"Increased Damage Modifier" is not an issue. "Blaster Issues - Low Damage Modifier" would be the correct title to this thread.
Same goes for most of the other threads you've recently created, which i doubt will help get the devs positive attention.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lucky666
If blasters are the "king of range" as you so eloquently but it then why I ask why does Psy blast for corruptors and defenders have longer range for their attacks then blasters?
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- Range has nothing to do with damage modifiers.
- And, while I do not know the answer to that specific question, one blast set would not change the overall position of the entire AT
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chyll
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So what? you said and I quote
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| Zero change. No one else at range is even at 1%. Blasters are by far the king of range unquestionable, as designed. |
Sorry but no.
Blasters aren't the king of range, they aren't the king of damage. The aren't king of crap. I love blasters have 3 at 50 another at 47 so please don't spit on my cupcake and tell me it's frosting.
Quote:
The OP discussion, and the quoted portion I was refering to was damage scale of the AT with the Ranged Damage type. No other AT comes anywhere close to the damage scale blasters have with Ranged Damage. |
Originally Posted by Lucky666
So what? you said and I quote
So they are the king of range but their attacks don't even have the best range, wut? Sorry but no. Blasters aren't the king of range, they aren't the king of damage. The aren't king of crap. I love blasters have 3 at 50 another at 47 so please don't spit on my cupcake and tell me it's frosting. |
The 'limited' range (in distance) of one blast set does not change the Blasters' undeniable position by the numbers of King of Ranged Damage across the board.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Just as an fyi, Ill list AT dmg modifiers.
AT/ /Melee/ /Ranged/ /Cap By range: Blaster/ /1.0/ /1.125/ /500% Dom/ /1.05/ /0.95/ /400% Corr/ /0.75/ /0.75/ /500% Def/ /0.55/ /0.65/ /400% Stalker/ /1.0/ /0.6/ /500% Troller/ /0.55/ /0.55/ /400% MM/ /0.55/ /0.55/ /400% Scrap/ /1.125/ /0.5/ /500% Tanker/ /0.8/ /0.5/ /400% Brute/ /0.75/ /0.5/ /775% |
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
Quote:
To be fair I imagine Chyll meant that Blasters are the kings of ranged damage not range in general. Specifically stating that no other AT has a ranged damage mod anywhere close to blasters ... which isn't true.|
Originally Posted by Lucky666
So they are the king of range but their attacks don't even have the best range, wut?
Sorry but no. |
Personally I don't see any need to be the king of range (as in distance you attack from) in CoH. I can play my energy/dev blaster from range and all it usually gets me is no buffs (most defenders/controllers/corrupters either run into melee to buff the folks there or their buffs are based off of hitting enemies) and very few heals (since again, heals are off enemies or people go into/near melee to pbaoe heal them there). I'm actually generally much better off fighting with my ranged blasts just on the edge of being in melee range of the enemies.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
Quote:
As I said before, those numbers while technically accurate don't reflect reality. Melee ATs use their melee damage mod for their ranged damage, the list doesn't include VEATs which have a 1.0 damage mod and kheld's nova form uses a 1.2 damage mod (I believe).|
Originally Posted by Chyll
The OP discussion, and the quoted portion I was refering to was damage scale of the AT with the Ranged Damage type. No other AT comes anywhere close to the damage scale blasters have with Ranged Damage.
The 'limited' range (in distance) of one blast set does not change the Blasters' undeniable position by the numbers of King of Ranged Damage across the board. |
Edit: A more accurate list would look something like this:
Code:
Kheld Nova/ 1.2 Blaster/ 1.125 Scrap/ 1.125 Stalker/ 1.0 Soldier/ 1.0 Widow/ 1.0 Dom/ 0.95 Tanker/ 0.8 Corr/ 0.75 Brute/ 0.75 Def/ 0.65 Troller/ 0.55 MM/ 0.55
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
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True, but melee ATs have how many ranged powers?|
Originally Posted by Oliin
As I said before, those numbers while technically accurate don't reflect reality. Melee ATs use their melee damage mod for their ranged damage, the list doesn't include VEATs which have a 1.0 damage mod and kheld's nova form uses a 1.2 damage mod (I believe).
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Khelds... are difficult to fit in the mix due to the special nature of HEATs, but understood.
I'd still say Blasters are in a solid position.
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
Quote:
Not all that many, but some combinations can have 5 or so and all of them have access to at least two. Still you can't really say blasters are king of ranged damage when that scrapper over there does more damage with their blasts than I do with the exact same powers (crits and all).
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Originally Posted by Chyll
True, but melee ATs have how many ranged powers?
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MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
Quote:
Take any target, maintain a range beyond any melee power.|
Originally Posted by Oliin
Not all that many, but some combinations can have 5 or so and all of them have access to at least two. Still you can't really say blasters are king of ranged damage when that scrapper over there does more damage with their blasts than I do with the exact same powers (crits and all).
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Can the average scrapper take the target down faster than the average blaster? Keeping in my that a blaster will not have to wait on any recharge (more power choices), and their higher tier powers will do more base damage.
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
Quote:
This.|
Originally Posted by Chyll
Take any target, maintain a range beyond any melee power.
Can the average scrapper take the target down faster than the average blaster? Keeping in my that a blaster will not have to wait on any recharge (more power choices), and their higher tier powers will do more base damage. |
Also, my blaster can take down a rikti pylon faster than my scrapper, and both are pimped out. Granted, my blaster has to rely on purple inspirations to stay alive, but that's not what this thread is about.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
So 'king of ranged damage' is simply just having more ranged attacks, not actually doing more damage with those same attacks? I always kind of figured it'd be both.
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Originally Posted by Chyll
Take any target, maintain a range beyond any melee power.
Can the average scrapper take the target down faster than the average blaster? Keeping in my that a blaster will not have to wait on any recharge (more power choices), and their higher tier powers will do more base damage. |
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
Quote:
That's fairly impressive. Is that straight from ranged or blapping? I know my tricked-out blaster only does about 160dps from range. Of course it's an energy/dev blaster. I don't think it can come anywhere close to one of the better scrapper builds in terms of dps.
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
Also, my blaster can take down a rikti pylon faster than my scrapper, and both are pimped out. Granted, my blaster has to rely on purple inspirations to stay alive, but that's not what this thread is about.
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MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
Quote:
You have to break down the entire picture, like is always done to computer DPS and attack chains. It isn't anything different, than normal discussions of that ilk, IMO.|
Originally Posted by Oliin
So 'king of ranged damage' is simply just having more ranged attacks, not actually doing more damage with those same attacks? I always kind of figured it'd be both.
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DPS at range: Blasters rule. No one can out damage a blaster in it's natural element.That is all I'm saying. And, by the definition and the design intent of Blasters they are successful as is.
Now, a different, and larger, question is which AT should do the most damage period? A standard DPS chain with no range limitations. Some would say Blasters, others Brutes, some Scrappers, and even some fringe fanatics that say it should be Tankers. I'd say that is more of a philosophical discussion, and the game as implemented seems to indicate where the Devs fall in that spectrum of expectations.
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
Quote:
It IS both, which is what he's saying. |
Originally Posted by Oliin
So 'king of ranged damage' is simply just having more ranged attacks, not actually doing more damage with those same attacks? I always kind of figured it'd be both.
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Ranged DPS is what matters, not ranged DPA.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
Only using ranged attacks, but staying in close range to use Drain Psyche every 35 seconds.|
Originally Posted by Oliin
That's fairly impressive. Is that straight from ranged or blapping? I know my tricked-out blaster only does about 160dps from range. Of course it's an energy/dev blaster. I don't think it can come anywhere close to one of the better scrapper builds in terms of dps.
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I believe the DPS was about 300, which is pretty nice considering I contribute hefty resistance debuffs to the team as well.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
You know, I was just looking at mids. It looks like Dominators actually come extremely close with the single target DPS, or at least they do in the case of Energy Assault/Energy Blast. I actually think an energy Dominator would outdamage my energy Blaster with single target.|
Originally Posted by Chyll
You have to break down the entire picture, like is always done to computer DPS and attack chains. It isn't anything different, than normal discussions of that ilk, IMO.
DPS at range: Blasters rule. No one can out damage a blaster in it's natural element.That is all I'm saying. And, by the definition and the design intent of Blasters they are successful as is. |
I doubt it's the case with all sets, but yeesh that's close. The only single target blast Energy Blast has that does more damage than Energy Assault (according to mids) is Power Bolt.
Edit: Not trying to accuse dominators of doing more damage than blasters. I don't play them often and I'm really not terribly familiar with their secondaries. I was just looking at ranged damage and was a little surprised by energy assault.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
Do blasters need more damage?