Shoulders and Hips
By
AkuTenshiiZero,
Posted on: 2012-02-16 22:12 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I can agree with this, somewhat. Not having more than one or two male characters, I can't really speak to that. Like most people here, I set my sliders to what looks best to me. Everything that AmazingMOO said about the female form in art may be true, but it's not true in THIS game. My standard slider set up is shoulders up a little from halfway, maybe 60% to the right. Any less than this looks incredibly lame for a superhero character. Physique is a little more than that, maybe 70%. My height slider as a default is set to what the CC says is about 6'6", but it doesn't really appear to be that tall in the game world. Waist is pushed up a little about the same as the shoulder slider. But minimum hip slider, always. Any more results in the worst case of thunder thighs I've ever seen. But because this game doesn't actually adjust the hips, but just the thighs, apparently, this does NOT make my characters look like a man. Leg slider usually to max helps stretch out the huge thigh look the devs seem to like so much. And of course, I'm with the rest of the women with finally deciding that less is more with the chest slider, I usually set it now to maybe 15%.|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
I do that [max shoulders, min waist and hips] will all my toons, male or female. Well, recently I have been leaving the male waist slider alone, so thats not quite true.
I reduce the bust-slider to half-strength or less.... I used to leave it alone, but then I decided smaller was more elegant. |
What I'm saying is what looks good to me, is shoulders wider than halfway and hips minimum. Not because what AmazingMOO says isn't true, but because the game sliders don't really do what he thinks they do.
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I think it means that they generally shouldn't look like they're going to snap in half of their own accord, much less if that Warwolf glances at them. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
Now that I don't understand. Going around with mutant powers for example, means what? They have to look like they're muscled up on steroids?
Personally, I always considered max shoulder sliders to look terrible :/ |
Max shoulders without a physique increase tends to make the shoulders look bizarre and almost disjointed to me, though.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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But that's a comic book hero standard. Even an anime standard.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I think it means that they generally shouldn't look like they're going to snap in half of their own accord, much less if that Warwolf glances at them.
Max shoulders without a physique increase tends to make the shoulders look bizarre and almost disjointed to me, though. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Mmm, yes I do generally increase the physique along side my shoulder/breast/waist adjustment. Of course then I run into clipping problems all over the place, but you take the good with the bad.
BrandX I realize it's a comic book standard, anime standard, whatever, but it still looks really, really stupid to me. I mean where are these women hiding their innards?!
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Same place as Kathie Jung (have no desire to link /that/ image) who was a skinnier waist that's not even possible to recreate in game.|
Originally Posted by Emberly
Mmm, yes I do generally increase the physique along side my shoulder/breast/waist adjustment. Of course then I run into clipping problems all over the place, but you take the good with the bad.
BrandX I realize it's a comic book standard, anime standard, whatever, but it still looks really, really stupid to me. I mean where are these women hiding their innards?! |
My point being, the same place as everyone else.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Same place every other super hides stuff.... Hammer space!
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Originally Posted by Emberly
Mmm, yes I do generally increase the physique along side my shoulder/breast/waist adjustment. Of course then I run into clipping problems all over the place, but you take the good with the bad.
BrandX I realize it's a comic book standard, anime standard, whatever, but it still looks really, really stupid to me. I mean where are these women hiding their innards?! |
I've moved the slider all the way to the left on certain characters to deliberately make them look less human.
The example that sticks in my mind is the plant/human/machine hybrid that wants to turn all flora, fauna, and machina into clones of herself via giant magical blender. This character existed prior to most of the cool android/clockwork features, self-destruct, and even the good "planty" looking costume parts. with just the blast look and some deliberate tweaks to the appearance to make her look slightly "off," I created a character that looked like she did not match the average human.
The best part was that the small tweak there only made her bust look even bigger, so nobody noticed the disturbingly inaccurate proportions until they read my bio and realized what the character was.
you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you <3
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Interresting, putting all the sliders to the left, I never thought made them look less human. I thought it tended to give them a rather young appearance, based on the height they're at.
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Originally Posted by Party_Kake
I've moved the slider all the way to the left on certain characters to deliberately make them look less human.
The example that sticks in my mind is the plant/human/machine hybrid that wants to turn all flora, fauna, and machina into clones of herself via giant magical blender. This character existed prior to most of the cool android/clockwork features, self-destruct, and even the good "planty" looking costume parts. with just the blast look and some deliberate tweaks to the appearance to make her look slightly "off," I created a character that looked like she did not match the average human. The best part was that the small tweak there only made her bust look even bigger, so nobody noticed the disturbingly inaccurate proportions until they read my bio and realized what the character was. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Comic book characters are drawn different classic drawings.
I have somewhere How To Draw Comics The Marvel Way, and I am going to check some details, but I remember that female legs are drawn much longer then in reality, and male shoulders are also much bigger then real ones.
"If you want to win you must not lose."
"Easiest way to turn defeat into a victory is to put on the enemy's uniform"
"Better strategic retreat than dishonorable defeat"
- Il Numero Uno (The Number One)
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On MALE: "Needless to say, we also make the shoulders good and wide, and the hips real narrow. Naturally, as we're soon about to see, the male is drawn much more angular than the female." -How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way|
Originally Posted by CatAstrophy
Comic book characters are drawn different classic drawings.
I have somewhere How To Draw Comics The Marvel Way, and I am going to check some details, but I remember that female legs are drawn much longer then in reality, and male shoulders are also much bigger then real ones. |
On FEMALE: ". . . with her hips much wider in relation to her shoulders than they would be on a male." -How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way
The male figure (Reed Richards) and the female (Sue Storm) both have legs that are 4 heads tall, the characters themselves are about 8 3/4. Sue's torso is smaller, so her legs do appear to be longer.
Looking at a different book, How to Draw Comic Book Heroes and Villains, the males are again more angular. The females have a wider pelvic region and the torso comes in sharply at the waist. There is a lot more focus on the females legs than the males. Males are drawn at 8 heads, legs are 3 1/2. Females are drawn at 9 heads, legs are 4 1/2.
The females just don't look right, IMPO, the legs seem TOO long.
Looking at a third How-To-Draw book /em sunglasses, How to Draw Those Bodacious Bad Babes of Comics, "Good Girls" are drawn at 7 1/2 heads with legs at 3 (looks like a "normal" real-life girl) whereas "Bad Girls" are drawn at 8 1/2 heads with legs at 4 - both share slightly wider-hips than shoulders.
Our costume creator could use some lovin' though, those sliders don't always do what they say they will do!
@War-Nugget
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Originally Posted by Wavicle
CoH players are stupid and incompetent compared to WoW players.
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I let the sliders fall where they may and call it good!
Doom/Batman in 2012
The Resistance has boobs too, and better hair!
The Resistance has boobs too, and better hair!
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There's a very good reason for this. CoH is a comic book world, and if you look at the world of comic books, especially DC, you'll see that wide shoulders narrow hips is the norm. You can't really complain that people are using a fairly standardised superhero styling in a superhero game...
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Originally Posted by AmazingMOO
For example, I can't count the number of female characters I've seen that have very broad shoulders and very narrow hips.
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@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Realistic or not, that's actually something I tend to do and tend to like. Real life's over-rated |
Originally Posted by War-Nugget
The females just don't look right, IMPO, the legs seem TOO long.
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Originally Posted by War-Nugget
Our costume creator could use some lovin' though, those sliders don't always do what they say they will do!
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Unfortunately, while I once enjoyed CoH's graphics, they're just getting more and more dated. It's fine when I go a while without playing a new game, but after spending the last two months plating through some newer titles, coming back to the mittens and blockheads of CoH is pretty tough.
Not that I expect a radical change of graphics at this point, even with it going F2P I don't think it's pulled in enough new people for them to do anything that massive.
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I use it to make the legs and midriff a bit thicker. And I thought it was "physique" rather than "muscle".
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Ain't that the truth. The "muscle" slider is actually a breasts and butt slider
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Possibly.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I use it to make the legs and midriff a bit thicker. And I thought it was "physique" rather than "muscle".
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But it doesn't make the "legs" thicker, it makes the thighs thicker, but leaves the calves, ankles and feet still small, making a larger woman's leg look like sausage funnels, at least to me. That's why I usually use larger boots on any female character that I give a high physique slider value.
And I really don't believe it makes the midriff much thicker, or at least I haven't noticed it doing that. If anything, it makes the midriff look narrower by comparison to the semi-trailer butt of higher values, meaning that I then have to up the waist slider to kingdom come just so the woman in question doesn't look like she's made of two separate people.
Mind you, I'm not saying you're wrong to do what you do, I just wish we had more control over our physique. Mostly, I want bigger arms and possibly hands, bigger lower legs and possibly feet and control of the torso in three dimensions. Or at least two dimensions - sideways and forward/back.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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It makes the calves thicker. It makes the midriff thicker. It even makes the arms slightly thicker. And it makes the feet longer for some reason.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
But it doesn't make the "legs" thicker, it makes the thighs thicker, but leaves the calves, ankles and feet still small, making a larger woman's leg look like sausage funnels, at least to me. That's why I usually use larger boots on any female character that I give a high physique slider value.
And I really don't believe it makes the midriff much thicker, or at least I haven't noticed it doing that. If anything, it makes the midriff look narrower by comparison to the semi-trailer butt of higher values, meaning that I then have to up the waist slider to kingdom come just so the woman in question doesn't look like she's made of two separate people. |
More control and wider range would be appreciated, certainly.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Technically, it makes everything thicker, I just meant that it doesn't make the other body parts thicker by much. I guess it's the classic female ideal for women to have big butts and small torsos, and I'm aware of the biology which dictates a larger pelvis, but some concepts just call for a female character that's more muscular built, and currently... There really is no good way to do that.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
It makes the calves thicker. It makes the midriff thicker. It even makes the arms slightly thicker. And it makes the feet longer for some reason.
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Hence, more control. I'm glad we agree.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I discovered that Matthew Habashy, a "normal man", must be over eight feet tall, because I made a female character who is four feet tall according to the Body creation screen, and when she went to talk to MH in Atlas Park she ended up staring him right in the crotch.|
Originally Posted by NekoNeko
My height slider as a default is set to what the CC says is about 6'6", but it doesn't really appear to be that tall in the game world.
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Originally Posted by CatAstrophy
Comic book characters are drawn different classic drawings.
I have somewhere How To Draw Comics The Marvel Way, and I am going to check some details, but I remember that female legs are drawn much longer then in reality, and male shoulders are also much bigger then real ones. |
As for the way I tweak female bodies in the game, I've had good luck with taking the same approach I've heard recommended for audio EQ: take away, don't add. So I'll often start by choosing the "Heavy" female model, and then using the sliders to reduce from there.
I also like to increase waist size so that there isn't such a large difference between waist and hips. On some of my early female characters, I discovered that the combination of "narrow waist + round butt + long legs" resulted in a very noticeable, aesthetically unappealing "gap" between the thighs when the chacacter is running. Simply making the waist a bit wider mitigates that somewhat.
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Hmmm...on my main I have all at minimum except the shoulders (1/4 inch over minimum) and legs (maxed).
My only real goal was to try to make her 1) look teenish and 2) keep the standard hourglass comicbook figure.
Though I was often told all of my alt characters looked like my main, so I've recently begun changing the sliders (which includes the chest slider) trying to change them up while still looking good (to me anyways).
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I would love the client code people to take another look at the female slider rigging.
Firstly I'm not suggesting the bones themselves be re-rigged that would involve editing every single female mesh item, and we all know that is never going to happen.
But, its obvious that there are "inflate" bones present in the current female rig and there is a _code_ link between a slider value and which inflate bones get triggered and by how much.
I'd like to see the following mapping changes (on the female model) (and I really thing these are possible without significant work)
- Physique: less effect on the thighs and more on the arms, (there are inflaters on the female arm bones right? because at the moment they are barely used) Is there an inflater on the neck? It could do with being used
- Hips: a little less of the leg spacing and add a little of the upper leg/bum inflater
- Shoulders: Given that there probably still needs to be a dedicated "boob" slider I'd suggest that the ribcage inflater (I assume there is one, the male rig has one) be partially tied to the shoulder slider so that the ribcage grows a little to meet the shoulders
Major changes to the CC have been made with the simple addition of a costume token (per costume) even when it breaks existing costumes.
Now if we had carte-blanche to redo the sliders I'd love to see a separate slider per inflater so you could inflate the arms/legs/other separately. But this is (IMHO) more work as it involves more slider values stored per character.
Personally, I always considered max shoulder sliders to look terrible :/
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection