Regen! A discussion.

I think since they added -regen resist to fast healing a while back, why not add -recovery resists to quick recovery? Same mechanic, simple fix there...

Then boost resilience to where at ED cap (55-56% enhanced) you are somewhere around 20-25% resistances.

Regen is technically a resist set, but the inherent resists are very low...

I love the way regen plays, especially in normal content...in Incarnate content, I think it needs some sort of layered defense to prevent cascading defensive failure

I don't really get the requests for -recovery resist. Why should Regen get that? Just because it has Quick Recovery?

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth, so to speak, if Regen was given that, but I've never looked at Regen and thought "hey, why isn't this here?"

Ok, regen is not a defense set to be sure...I've always seen it as a resist set with a unique format for resists...however, let me point these out...

(1) Incarnate content softcap is 59%...of the primary melee sets, you cannot possibly achieve this except on the sword sets and even then only to melee with parry/divine avalanche...regen has no layered mitigation like say...invuln/DA/any of the auras/shield/SR. It is essentially based on the premise that you should heal more than an enemy can damage you...agreed? So, in order to create your own layered mitigation you use pool powers to buff your defenses and resistances and create your own survival tools. I am completely fine with this...however, in end game content, the problem becomes that the few weaknesses that regen has are the most commonly exploited weaknesses at that level. Psionics/recovery debuff/exotic damage types/etc are all extremely common in incarnate trials. In order to provide some assistance, recovery debuff resistance (not even an enormous amount, say 35-45%, fast healing is over 50% to -regen) would allow regens to maintain their layered mitigation that we had to create ourselves in order to make the set more rounded. I am not asking for 100% resistance just "some" help...when your toggles drop...and it's not exceptionally often, but often enough...your proverbial goose is cooked.

(2) a small boost to resilience (say something like a total gain of 10% over current levels with IO's @ ED cap) would be another way to adapt to these exotic damage types that are common in incarnate trials. I am not saying I would prefer both, but one or the other would be nice, if I had my pick, personally I would prefer -recovery resists, but either solution is just a small step up to keep you from faceplanting... I am not asking to make IH a toggle again, though I miss those days, rebirth is pretty close to it as I see it...I just think that either of these 2 small fixes would put regen in a "better" position to be more iTrial adept...

-my 2 cents

People talk about all these horrible things that happen to Regen in the end game, and, frankly, I get by most easily with my Regens than anything other melees I have. I have never been worried about any of the debuffs the IDF lay out except for -def and -recovery, and it's not as if Regen uniquely labors under that. I have never been significantly recharge debuffed by anything in an iTrial at all except for Antimatter laying Lingering Radiation on me. And Regen is one of the powersets that cares least about exotic damage types out there.

The biggest danger to Regen in the end game is plain old high burst damage, which was its weakness even back in the days of perma-IH.

I say this as someone with over 1000 iTrials under his belt and 3 level 50 Regens that are tricked out with iStuff.

recharge debuffs are not a concern to me...never have been...

-def is a pain in the *** but frankly, that isn't really something all that exotic since it occurs early in content and frequently in various forms to varying strengths of effect and dealing with it is just part of playing the game...

-recovery is more exotic, and resists to it would be beneficial...very beneficial...

My point is this, while /regen is well prepared for most things in end game...the thing that it is supposed to be better than anything else at...i.e. regeneration...is not that much better than some other sets can achieve UNTIL you hit the destiny slot and take rebirth as IH is down as often as it is up at best case scenario...in incarnate content, you survive while your tools are available to you...however, if you're not softcapped to incarnate levels, and your resists are only average at best...then your regeneration ability needs to be either magnified or supplemented in some way...

Now, I am not saying it needs a drastic overhaul...I am not even saying that some small minor boost to a power wouldn't increase the layered mitigation if applied in the right spot...however...I am saying that if you have to burn all your survival tools quickly against an AV say, like the hami avatar in the UGT for example...then you have a serious gap of vulnerability where even layered mitigation will only go so far...

Now, for -recovery, with malta sappers, you can set out looking for those...but when you have GROUPS of end sapping enemies instead of single NPC's then you have no choice but to watch as your toggles drop if you are the unlucky target while you try to slay them all before they can drain you...

Burst damage is and always has been an achilles heel of sorts to regen, but that's been given tools that can be used like DP which when perma negates the majority of alphas anyway...that's a non issue.

This is coming from someone who's favorite character is a 50+3 claws/regen scrapper with many iTrials under my belt and a build that cost into the billions...and I still play him and enjoy him several times a week. I have just observed in my time, that there are some minor things that if tweaked would increase the capability of the set to be less peak and valley type...i.e. vulnerable or godmode. This is not the case in lower content as you generally are able to overcome the issues with your mitigation tools and powers inherent in the set. In incarnate content it is though, I accept that AV's will always have a way to make you faceplant, and so my thoughts are -recovery would be far more useful.

Could just put IH to 270 second recharge!

Makes it permable without turning it back into a toggle.

Every Regen should be able to regen from death. (like a troll?)

So code Fast Healing to not "stop" upon death.

after a few second's you'll stand up with 1 health, and recover/regenerate like normal.


Revive would still be a safer rez, but it may need to be reworked if there was a regen rez.

I've deleted a few regen's, before and after WP came out. It just doesn't seem fun to me.

One thing I LOVED about WP and Regen was the fact you didn't have to take Fitness!!!

To be honest..Regeneration, as is, could almost be downgraded to a Power Pool.

WP stabbed Regen in the leg while Auto Fitness threw lemon juice in his eye's.

Come on now, regen isn't _that_ bad. WP and inherent fitness definitely overlap Regen, but it just needs some love to make it more competitive.

It actually works ok on Brutes currently; just moving some numbers around a little and / or adding some auto debuff resistance would probably be enough to address the issues.


Anyway, the current studio has been pretty good about periodically reassessing sets that are sub-par and making intelligent realignments. It may not happen in a time frame that we like, but it does happen, and I'm confident that eventually Regen will get a pick me up.

Those of you who continue to insist that Regen is 'broken' or a clearly inferior set just clearly haven't played it. Or at least, haven't played it enough. Or, at the risk of sounding completely arrogant, haven't played it right.

I feel like I am in godmode just about all the time on my DM/Regen. I'm not even done putting together the purple sets in my build (though I do have all T4 incarnates), and can easily solo +2/3 x5/6. Well, maybe not easily, but consistently.

At the risk of spoiling the 'Squeaky Wheel' principal of the forums, I will go ahead and say it: Regen is fine. I'd happily accept some -recharge resist, but otherwise I have no problem with the way the set is built or how it works.

If you have doubts, come find me (or other good /regen scrappers) ingame...we'll be the Scrappers in trials off solo-ing IDF packs and Weapon Caches...

EDIT: Not that other ATs or Scrapper Builds can't do the same, but the ability to successfully do those things is just one example of Regen being on par with other sets in ingame content.

The counter argument is that _any_ melee armor set can be made awesome with the right IO's and Regen is no exception to this. Also, Dark Melee offers a lot of mitigation between to-hit debuffs and a healing attack. Many other attack sets offer less mitigation than DM.

So, I agree with you that a tricked out incarnate Regen is amazing, because all tricked out incarnate melee characters are some degree of awesome.

It's the non-tricked out leveling Regen characters who tend to not compare well to other sets, particularly in the critical "am I going to get frustrated, delete this toon, and remake it with a different secondary" earlier stage of the game.

Personally, I won't play regen on a scrapper anymore. I will consider playing it on a brute, though thus far out of 5 attempts I deleted 3 of them, and 1 was on beta and got level bumped past the painful levels so doesn't really count.

From direct experience I think Regen works well w/ StJ on a Brute, but so does WP. Both are playable for me...but I leveled the Stj/WP to 50 while the Regen mirror was left behind...so...take that for what little its worth.

All I can say is Regen for Stalkers will be amazing once the new issue launches. Anyways, I think Regen needs to have some of its key powers with reduced recharge lengths and it is fine as is.

I like that Regen requires proactive approach or even reactive based on what I do rather than just toggling on the shields and relying on sheer RNG.

On the other hand, I just leveled up a SJ/Regen brute and found the durability to be fine even as I invested fewer slots into the secondary than I do with almost any other set. Until the last levels it was something like:

Fast healing: 1
Recon: 5
QR: 2
DP: 5
Integration: 2
IH: 3
Resilience: 1
MoG: 2

Eventually fast healing, IH and MoG got one additional slot each. So for much less investment than a set like SR requires, I was getting performance at least as good. Nothing else out of the ordinary was done to make the character work.

The one thing I had to do, which I do on every character, is evaluate the appropriateness of my difficulty settings for the content I was about to run. First Ward? Leave that on x2. Malta or carnies? Okay on x5, but bringing lucks is helpful. Council or freaks? x8, please! Seems about normal to me.

I don't have an issue per se with regen...it is still my favorite melee secondary by far...but if I was going to tweak anything...I would add recovery debuff resistances. My regen is still my favorite toon...but under extreme circumstances in itrials...toggles dropping at random when your end bar is just sapped is the most frustrating thing because you would be survivable had your defenses not fallen.

I have tried the new regen and it is better than the I8 version of same. Having said that, it still lacks some of the extra things like -recovery resist along with a lot of other things which for me= not as fun as say my WP toons.

I think it is something that is going to remain popular for some(pvp) and not as popular as some of the "easier" sets to manage.

I must be playing regen wrong then... I've felt completely safe and havent cared about what type of mob I am fighting or what type of damage I am getting hit with... I just heal it all back >_>

I'd like to see some of the sets regen come earlier in the set and outside of Instant Healing, so that it actually has comparable baseline regen to Willpower..
If IH had 200% regen lopped off (putting it at 600%, 200% of which is enhanceable), this could then be redistributed:
Integration goes back to having all of its regen enhanceable instead of just 50%, that would give an extra 100% regen once fully slotted.
Reconstruction gives 50% regen for 30s - fully slotted that would be 100% regen available roughly permanently. With massive recharge it could be double-stacked.

Some numbers for comparison*:
Willpower (with 1 enemy in range): 200% unslotted, ~400% slotted
Current Regen (without IH): 225% slotted, ~350% slotted

Willpower (with 10 enemies in range): 425% unslotted, ~850% slotted
Current Regen (with IH): 1025% unslotted, ~1350% slotted

If Integration fully benefitted from enhancements: ~450% slotted (Willpower has the same with 2 enemies in range)
If Reconstruction also granted 50% for 30s: ~550% slotted (Willpower has the same with 4 enemies in range)
Regen with IH would be the same, ~1350% slotted.
With sufficient recharge to keep Reconstruction's regen double-stacked (involves interrupting your attack chain every 15s) and IH running: ~1450% slotted.

I'd also like to see Instant Healing grant some extra regen debuff resistance, even if it's just equal to what Fast Healing grants.

I like the sound of some of the ideas already mentioned too, such as adding some regen to Revive, and slow resistance to... something.

* all of these numbers ignore Fitness/Health, which both sets get anyway.

When testing regen for brutes on beta before it got proliferated, running on SOs, I honestly felt it had to be the squishiest set out there.

...that is, if you play brutes as a tank like it is categorized to be. Even with tough, you are taking a massive amount of damage and debuffs, which the set doesn't try to mitigate or avoid.

I have a feeling that the set won't get a good rework until it comes to tankers.

For those of you calling out for recharge resistance, I wouldn't hold your breath - I am pretty sure that is by design as the main weakness of the set. I don't think they are right in thinking that though - I think with massive recharge buffs that regen should be nearly unkillable, like most sets can with enough investment.