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It depends on your definition of "dynamic." I believe the procs are very likely to adjust to the power they are slotted into, but I believe those are static calculations done based on the power definition and not the actual live performance of the power with buffs.|
Originally Posted by Codewalker
This part suggests that it's both. Not only does the proc chance vary based on activation / recharge, but there's a hard limit that would presumable limit the proc's usefulness in AoE attacks.
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I could be wrong there, but that's my current suspicion.
Also, either Clockwork 01 is mistaken about how the procs work, or someone is going to have a very interesting time writing text descriptions for them. If Clockwork 01 is correct, the maximum proc rate is dependent upon what power the proc is slotted into. But that would mean any attempt to say "this enhancement procs about X times per minute" would be misleading.
I don't know how the new proc system was implemented, but I do know all attuned procs have an implied PPM baked into them that seems to match the text description. Whether that is used as a PPM limit or used to calculate an on-the-fly limit is a different matter, and one difficult at the moment to test.
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Based on the reports from other threads, it seems the answer to how PPM works is: It doesn't.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I don't know how the new proc system was implemented, but I do know all attuned procs have an implied PPM baked into them that seems to match the text description. Whether that is used as a PPM limit or used to calculate an on-the-fly limit is a different matter, and one difficult at the moment to test.
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All of the ATO procs are set to 0% chance, but with a PPM value in the power. I assumed that the PPM would override the chance, but since people are saying that the ATO procs aren't going off at all, that would seem to not be the case.
The only one that has been reported as working is the Stalker's chance to enter "hidden" state, and that one is set to 20% chance on the non-superior version only.
Brute's Fury, Scrapper's Strike, and Kheldian's Grace, and Command of the Mastermind should work since those are implemented as set bonuses.
Looks like this may have just been changed to be a chance to grant 5 or 7 Fury...
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Based in part on the discussions surrounding the previous version, Arbiter Hawk changed the proc. If its currently set to grant 5 points of Fury for the rare version and 7 for the very rare version, that is what I believe Arbiter Hawk intended.|
Originally Posted by Codewalker
Looks like this may have just been changed to be a chance to grant 5 or 7 Fury...
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I am way behind on "looking" at it, so I don't have revised calculations for its net effect based on PPM, but it should be far better than the previous version regardless.
Incidentally, Arbiter Hawk also told me that the proc PPM is *supposed* to be working and works in his tests, so either we had an outstandingly out of date build or something else goofy is happening. People who observed the procs not working at all should retest with the current beta build carefully to see if they are working now, and post the results of tests that suggest procs with proc per minute ratings are not working.
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Update: Definitely test the PPM per the above, but I'd hold off on any in-depth performance testing just yet. The old effect of the Brute ATO hasn't been removed yet, so if you slot it (and if the procs are working now), you'll get BOTH.
I'm betting this build was pushed out in a hurry so that Darkness Control could be tested, so I'm sure that little bug will be squashed soon.
Wow I did not realize they changed this and I had just now sent Synapse a long PM about this. I just never saw a patch note or anything about it.
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Would be a sweet proc if they kept both, logging into Beta now to check it out.
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Originally Posted by Codewalker
Update: Definitely test the PPM per the above, but I'd hold off on any in-depth performance testing just yet. The old effect of the Brute ATO hasn't been removed yet, so if you slot it (and if the procs are working now), you'll get BOTH.
I'm betting this build was pushed out in a hurry so that Darkness Control could be tested, so I'm sure that little bug will be squashed soon. |
Ok this proc is now massively broken, you go from about 30 fury to 100 fury instantly. Slot it into an AOE and it will add 7 fury per foe it hits... kind of cool though
This is pretty sweet, I can maintain 100 fury easily when its broken like this haha.
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The patch that just want to Test yesterday includes this change as well as removes the old effect. I don't know if you can actually test it there (read: get ATOs on Test), however.
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Originally Posted by Ultimus
Would be a sweet proc if they kept both, logging into Beta now to check it out.
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That suggests the PPM is way too high. In-combat decay is 0.75/sec I believe, which means a 7 fury per proc ATIO must proc less than six times per minute or it will allow a brute to peg fury.
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Originally Posted by Ultimus
Ok this proc is now massively broken, you go from about 30 fury to 100 fury instantly. Slot it into an AOE and it will add 7 fury per foe it hits... kind of cool though
This is pretty sweet, I can maintain 100 fury easily when its broken like this haha. |
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Yeah I bet that's gonna get loved tenderly-I mean adjusted soon.
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Originally Posted by Ultimus
Ok this proc is now massively broken, you go from about 30 fury to 100 fury instantly. Slot it into an AOE and it will add 7 fury per foe it hits... kind of cool though
This is pretty sweet, I can maintain 100 fury easily when its broken like this haha. |
And Synapse is looking into fixing it now, it is suppose to proc only once per cast, not per target. Based on this, I am guessing there would be no benefit in slotting it into an AOE then? (Which is how it should be)
I also hate to suggest this but the Brute ATO set bonuses might need to be swapped in reverse order. Right now it gives: (this is with the catalyst)
2) 3% Health
3) 5% S/L 2.5% Melee
4) 4% DMG
5) 10% Recharge
6) 2.52% S/L Resistance
What does this mean? In my opinion, you would see a better benefit slotting two powers with 3 catalyst Brute IO's for 6% health, 10% Smashing/Lethal Defense then doing the above. (These bonuses would work all the way exemplared down too)
Thoughts on this?
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So, reversed - 10% recharge for 3 slots, or 20% recharge for 3 slots each in two powers?|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
I also hate to suggest this but the Brute ATO set bonuses might need to be swapped in reverse order. Right now it gives: (this is with the catalyst)
2) 3% Health 3) 5% S/L 2.5% Melee 4) 4% DMG 5) 10% Recharge 6) 2.52% S/L Resistance What does this mean? In my opinion, you would see a better benefit slotting two powers with 3 catalyst Brute IO's for 6% health, 10% Smashing/Lethal Defense then doing the above. (These bonuses would work all the way exemplared down too) Thoughts on this? |
Not gonna happen.
I guess I may not be clear on what you specifically envision when you say "swapped in reverse order," and think that any discussion of a modification like this probably needs to be in the beta feedback forums rather than the general AT forums regardless.
(I also don't think S/L defense is hard enough to come by as it is for brutes to make this something I'd worry much about.)
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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Why do you think Frankenslotting should automatically be worse (not that I'm conceding that its worse in all cases)?|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
I also hate to suggest this but the Brute ATO set bonuses might need to be swapped in reverse order. Right now it gives: (this is with the catalyst)
2) 3% Health 3) 5% S/L 2.5% Melee 4) 4% DMG 5) 10% Recharge 6) 2.52% S/L Resistance What does this mean? In my opinion, you would see a better benefit slotting two powers with 3 catalyst Brute IO's for 6% health, 10% Smashing/Lethal Defense then doing the above. (These bonuses would work all the way exemplared down too) Thoughts on this? |
The devs have datamined that players *love* slotting recharge, and recharge bonuses. That appears to be the most valuable bonus, as voted on by the players with their in-game actions. So allowing high order recharge to sit very low, and be potentially stackable, seems less likely even if you think Frankenslotting should be in some manner less optimal.
My own opinion is the two strongest bonuses are the s/l defense and the recharge, and one exists within the first three slots, and one exists above that. So you get an early big buff, and a later one if you slot more of the set.
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This is a good point. |
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
This is amusing.
The arguably most over-powered AT in the game gets less of a boost than other AT's - Big Deal. I am not a nerf herder and don't want brutes lowered - but my god man they are getting boosted even though they are at the top edge of balanced. In some ways they are unbalanced. Stalkers and Tankers just are at the far other end of balance and they get a better boost. This is called FAIR - balancing AT's in an MMO you would think it never happened before - in a related note Regen is due to be nerfed again............. |
I would have been VERY surprised if Brutes got an ATO proc that increased anything significantly.
The AT is a little overpowered already. It's perfectly fair that the ATs that are already borderline overpowered don't get as much of a boost as some of the others. Scrappers go from 5% crit chance to 6% crit chance and that's being seen as far better than what brutes get?
And for the record, Stalkers are getting shafted again. How? They are getting changed to be able to use Assassin Strike as a Superior damage regular attack when not in Hide, and their ATO will put them in Hide when it procs. So, you'll run through your attack chain and instead of the fast Superior AS you thought you were going to use, the proc fires and you get the 4 second interruptible AS instead.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
It seems like the stalker set was conceived of as being invariably slotted into AS itself. Obviously that isn't actually required in any way, but it is the best way to avoid the behavior you suggest, Claws. That way instead of breaking the new mechanic it builds upon it and gives you bonus criticals whether you fire a slow AS or a fast one.
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^^^ This.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
It seems like the stalker set was conceived of as being invariably slotted into AS itself. Obviously that isn't actually required in any way, but it is the best way to avoid the behavior you suggest, Claws. That way instead of breaking the new mechanic it builds upon it and gives you bonus criticals whether you fire a slow AS or a fast one.
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You can ESPECIALLY split-slot the ATO in a stalker. Even 1,2,3 slotting across three powers has a good place there, with the proc ALWAYS going into AS.
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The devs disagree with you as we stated earlier up the proc was changed to proc 7 fury. I was hitting full fury on test. It rocks now it can be like a 40% damage increase at times.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
This is a good point.
I would have been VERY surprised if Brutes got an ATO proc that increased anything significantly. The AT is a little overpowered already. It's perfectly fair that the ATs that are already borderline overpowered don't get as much of a boost as some of the others. Scrappers go from 5% crit chance to 6% crit chance and that's being seen as far better than what brutes get? And for the record, Stalkers are getting shafted again. How? They are getting changed to be able to use Assassin Strike as a Superior damage regular attack when not in Hide, and their ATO will put them in Hide when it procs. So, you'll run through your attack chain and instead of the fast Superior AS you thought you were going to use, the proc fires and you get the 4 second interruptible AS instead. |
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I don't think I would point to what is clearly aberrant behavior as proof of what the devs are or are not thinking.
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Originally Posted by Ultimus
The devs disagree with you as we stated earlier up the proc was changed to proc 7 fury. I was hitting full fury on test. It rocks now it can be like a 40% damage increase at times.
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...Hmm. I tried putting the proc into AS and it was putting me into hide every time, and I was following up by Concentrated Strike'ing to pop Build Up. Repeat every 10 seconds as needed for perma Build Up.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
And for the record, Stalkers are getting shafted again. How? They are getting changed to be able to use Assassin Strike as a Superior damage regular attack when not in Hide, and their ATO will put them in Hide when it procs. So, you'll run through your attack chain and instead of the fast Superior AS you thought you were going to use, the proc fires and you get the 4 second interruptible AS instead.
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Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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From what's been reported, however, it sounds like they may not be working at all.