Biggest Incarnate Content Issue
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2011-12-20 18:56 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
I've not seen one post by any dev that the content can ONLY be solo'd. In fact I've heard them say the opposite.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The devs?
 |
Link please.
EDIT: Seeing as how they have already confirmed that there will be GMs in the zone, your comment is even more silly.
Since when has the average soloist been able to take on GMS?
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
They've said that Dark Astoria is intended for solo and small team play - that means that most of the content will need to made easy enough for most ATs and builds to solo it.
|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
I've not seen one post by any dev that the content can ONLY be solo'd. In fact I've heard them say the opposite.
Link please. EDIT: Seeing as how they have already confirmed that there will be GMs in the zone, your comment is even more silly. Since when has the average soloist been able to take on GMS? |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
I was too.
|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
For history's sake, I was one of the people who was 100% fine with them releasing the alpha slot without any major content ready to go.
|
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Quote:
Yes, which means you don't have to only solo it.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
They've said that Dark Astoria is intended for solo and small team play - that means that most of the content will need to made easy enough for most ATs and builds to solo it.
|
....
Is this thing on?
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
But it still needs to be soloable.
|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Yes, which means you don't have to only solo it.
|
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I will believe it when I see it; after all, this is the bunch that thinks my level 19 Controller should be able to solo Praetorian Vanessa DeVore - plus about nine decoy clones.
Please prove me wrong! I wait with interest.
Well, after reading through this thread, I guess I now realize that I have totally missed the boat for Incarnates.
When Incarnate content first dropped, I had 4 level 50 characters. I took the two Blasters through to get their Alphas unlocked, and have done a few TFs & MS Raids to get stuff to craft boosts for them, but nothing higher than the second level (whatever that is called). My other level 50s don't even have their Alphas unlocked.
The overwhelming tone of some of the posters in this thread is that because I have not lived and breathed Incarnate raiding for the past few months, for me to try to start it now would be hurting THEIR gameplay in some way and just leeching on my part and rude and insensitive and just plain "wrong".
Thanks, guys, for letting me know that I'm not welcome!
p.s. - Yes, I know that DA revisions will make Incarnate content for soloers and those who prefer small teams.....
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
Dude, big rule on the forums:
Forum goers *****. A lot. Take what they say with a grain of salt, because they are only the most vocal players, they do not -represent- most players. Big, big difference. And it happens some of them are very very vocal whiners that will interject their point into any thread even tangentially related to the topic, sometimes not even that. So don't let it put you off.
Quote:
Uh... no... you're more than welcome on BAF Trials, Lambda Trials, and Keyes Trials. The problem comes in when unlevelshifted and those only +1 levelshifted try to join Underground Trials, TPN Trials, and MoM Trials. So, avoid those three for now until you're at least +2 levelshifted, but feel free to join BAF Trials, Lambda Trials, and Keyes Trials. Believe me, there are far more of those run than the other three, so it shouldn't be an issue.
|
Originally Posted by Ad Astra
Well, after reading through this thread, I guess I now realize that I have totally missed the boat for Incarnates.
When Incarnate content first dropped, I had 4 level 50 characters. I took the two Blasters through to get their Alphas unlocked, and have done a few TFs & MS Raids to get stuff to craft boosts for them, but nothing higher than the second level (whatever that is called). My other level 50s don't even have their Alphas unlocked. The overwhelming tone of some of the posters in this thread is that because I have not lived and breathed Incarnate raiding for the past few months, for me to try to start it now would be hurting THEIR gameplay in some way and just leeching on my part and rude and insensitive and just plain "wrong". Thanks, guys, for letting me know that I'm not welcome! p.s. - Yes, I know that DA revisions will make Incarnate content for soloers and those who prefer small teams..... |
@Celestial Lord and @Celestial Lord Too
Quote:
While true to a point, it's also true that a lot of ingame raid leaders would prefer at least +1s or more on their TPN, MOM, and UG trials.|
Originally Posted by Agent White
Dude, big rule on the forums:
Forum goers *****. A lot. Take what they say with a grain of salt, because they are only the most vocal players, they do not -represent- most players. Big, big difference. And it happens some of them are very very vocal whiners that will interject their point into any thread even tangentially related to the topic, sometimes not even that. So don't let it put you off. |
As Celestial said there are plenty of BAFs, Lambdas, and Keyes for you to do until you get your level shifts.
There is nothing wrong with raid leaders deciding they'd rather have more experienced raid runners for the later trials.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Anyone contributing dps to any trials featuring 54+2 mobs and AVs really needs the higher level shifts or the purple patch sees to it that they are serving very little purpose except perhaps as aggro bait. Support toons, on the other hand, are always welcome because buffs are valuable no matter what. I don't know how many league leaders are being discerning enough to take AT into account when they filter by level shift, but they probably should.
NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller
Quote:
I'm well aware of teams, thanks. Tip missions were were designed with the same team size as DA is being designed for (1 or more players). That doesn't change the fact that tip missions are some of the most boring things to do in the game (my own opinion, ymmv) and I have a feeling after the new factor wears off the DA content will just be the same thing. |
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Who says you need to solo the DA content.
You know there used to be this thing called duos, trios, and 4-8 man teams long ago when COH didn't add 16-24 man leagues It's not either mega leagues or soloing. There is this little thing called uhhhh, teams. GASP!  Mythical I know.  |
As for soloing the DA content, I look at it like this: If there are people on my global that I would run the DA content with, I'd be more likely to form a trial with them instead. The only time I see myself doing DA content is when no one else is on super late at night, which means I'd probably be solo'ing the DA content or at most duoing it occassionally.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord
Uh... no... you're more than welcome on BAF Trials, Lambda Trials, and Keyes Trials.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
While true to a point, it's also true that a lot of ingame raid leaders would prefer at least +1s or more on their TPN, MOM, and UG trials.
As Celestial said there are plenty of BAFs, Lambdas, and Keyes for you to do until you get your level shifts. There is nothing wrong with raid leaders deciding they'd rather have more experienced raid runners for the later trials. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
Anyone contributing dps to any trials featuring 54+2 mobs and AVs really needs the higher level shifts or the purple patch sees to it that they are serving very little purpose except perhaps as aggro bait. Support toons, on the other hand, are always welcome because buffs are valuable no matter what. I don't know how many league leaders are being discerning enough to take AT into account when they filter by level shift, but they probably should.
|
Tyger (50), Mutation-Controller Mind/FF - oldest Mind/FF on Union
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
|
Quote:
Good to know.|
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
I'm well aware of teams, thanks. Tip missions were were designed with the same team size as DA is being designed for (1 or more players). That doesn't change the fact that tip missions are some of the most boring things to do in the game (my own opinion, ymmv) and I have a feeling after the new factor wears off the DA content will just be the same thing.
As for soloing the DA content, I look at it like this: If there are people on my global that I would run the DA content with, I'd be more likely to form a trial with them instead. The only time I see myself doing DA content is when no one else is on super late at night, which means I'd probably be solo'ing the DA content or at most duoing it occassionally. |
But before leagues most teams were 8 max or less.
And tip missions are relatively new. There is plenty of content that can be done that has nothing to do with tips or leagues that the devs can add to DA.
The devs didn't just forget how to make tfs and story arcs and zone events just because they can now make tip missions and trials.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
I find the fact that they have to wonder at all in the first place to be silly.|
Originally Posted by Tyger
And then the devs wonder why there's more BAFs and Lambdas run....
|
Just simply paying attention to the last 3 years (AE fest, DFB, etc) should have been enough to tell anyone how this would go.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
I think you missed the point of this thread. There are plenty of trials for level 50s out there. In fact, the BAF and LAM, which are the ones designed for level 50s, easily comprise over 80% of the total trials run on a great many servers. |
Originally Posted by Ad Astra
The overwhelming tone of some of the posters in this thread is that because I have not lived and breathed Incarnate raiding for the past few months, for me to try to start it now would be hurting THEIR gameplay in some way and just leeching on my part and rude and insensitive and just plain "wrong".
|
The problem is that level 50+3s are also doing these trials disproportionately, and are getting better rewards/time invested in general. The inability of level 50s to contribute against a lebel 54+1 or 54+2 AV is part of what is skewing the reward ratio that pushes people with very experienced and developed Incarnates to spam the easiest trials.
New players are VERY favored by the current system. But feel free to bury your head in the sand if you prefer.
Quote:
Oh good lord.... now its you cant just be +1 levelshifted, you have to be MORE.| The problem comes in when unlevelshifted and those only +1 levelshifted try to join Underground Trials, TPN Trials, and MoM Trials. So, avoid those three for now until you're at least +2 levelshifted[...] |
Must be why I see so many people struggling to fill non-BAF/LAM trial leagues. This whole issue is just getting silly-ridiculous.
The other side of this is that a year from now, when there is tons of Incarnate content to choose from, certain elements of the playerbase will still pick a couple of easy missions and farm them.
Maybe the Devs just figured, "If you can't beat them..."
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
Quote:
I'd say you're partly wrong on this.|
Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
The problem is that level 50+3s are also doing these trials disproportionately, and are getting better rewards/time invested in general. The inability of level 50s to contribute against a level 54+1 or 54+2 AV is part of what is skewing the reward ratio that pushes people with very experienced and developed Incarnates to spam the easiest trials.
|
The one reason I like using my level 50+3s on BAF and Lambda, at its most basic level, is because that is the level where I WANT to fight things. I don't want to get into a peeing contest with +4s. When I play non-incarnate content, I play at +0, straight to level 50, except on a very few select characters. Playing at level 50+3 vs BAF/Lambda/Keyes means that I'm actually feeling close to powerful and not some sidekick battling groups the "real" superhero/villains should be dealing with.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Quote:
Yes, you have to be more for the later trials. But this is a natural consequence of having level shifts, which don't extend during SSK, in the first place. 50+3 heroes begets 54+3 villains which, thanks to the purple patch, begets players who feel useless if they are only 50 or 50+1 because they are useless (unless they are buff-oriented support toons). This isn't a product of player prejudice against newbies or casual players, but a product of the Incarnate system design that puts veteran trial runners in the undesireable position of having to be picky about the characters they recruit into a league.
|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Oh good lord.... now its you cant just be +1 levelshifted, you have to be MORE.
Must be why I see so many people struggling to fill non-BAF/LAM trial leagues. This whole issue is just getting silly-ridiculous. |
NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller
Quote:
Why? Really, what the <censored> is wrong fighting equal level critters if that is what I want to do?|
Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
50+3 heroes begets 54+3 villains which,
|
Why can't we have a version of APEX, Tin Mage, BAF, Lambda, Keyes, Underground, TPN, and MoM where the critters are level 50 (or at most 51), and the AVs are capped at level 54?
What is so wrong with wanting that?
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Quote:
Nothing is wrong with wanting it or even asking for it.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
What is so wrong with wanting that? |
I would not expect to see it before Issue 24 or so, though.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
Quote:
I'd settle for them to remove the level shifts on the critters in UG, TPN, and MoM. That is possible to do in a much shorter time frame.
|
Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
Nothing is wrong with wanting it or even asking for it.
I would not expect to see it before Issue 24 or so, though. |
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Good luck with the level 57 villains. I'm not sure even my +3s want to see them again at this point. The only thing I know is that the MoM and TPN trials are not enjoyable to me. Only now I turned down an invitation to run MoM, because I found UG more fun.
[At least, its more fun if you get a beatable version of the LIWW, which we did.]
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork