New Tanker Inherent: Anger -- Thoughts?


Aett_Thorn

 

Posted

So I had this idea pop into my head today... would be REALLY interesting.

What if Tankers had inverse fury?

Call it:

ANGER

Power Description: The Tanker LOVES to be the center of attention, when he is not he is mad, so mad that his attacks will hit MUCH harder until he regains that aggro.

The Tanker has a bar that is just like Fury, only its filled up. When its filled up it gives a huge damage boost. NOTE: For this to work the Tanker damage cap would have to be raised an additional 200%.

At full bar, the buff gives 200% more damage.

*HOWEVER* as the Tanker is attacked the bar begins to deplete, very fast the more attacks made against the Tanker. Even if the Tanker is tanking a single opponent the bar will begin decreasing, if the Tanker aggros a group he will only have the damage bonus for the first few attacks and after that the bar will be nearly depleted.

If the Tanker is not being attacked the bar begins to refill at a steady rate.

What does this accomplish?

This gives the Tanker:

  • Burst Damage: For initial Attacks the Tanker will deal huge burst damage
  • Increase Sustained DPS when not being attacked. This allows multiple Tankers that aren't tanking to deal much more damage.
  • Keep Tanker DPS at the same level when being attacked. Thus, a Tanker even being attacked by one opponent will see the bar begin to deplete.
  • Increase Threat Generated. If the Tanker wants to grab the attention of an enemy, his attacks will deal tremendous damage and pull threat.
  • The mechanics will also prevent the Tanker from being some sort of Uber Farmer because once he has aggro the bar depletes.


 

Posted

I'd buy that for a dollar.


"Everybody wants to change the world, but nobody wants to change themselves." -Tolstoy

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimus View Post
So I had this idea pop into my head today... would be REALLY interesting.

What if Tankers had inverse fury?

Call it:

ANGER

Power Description: The Tanker LOVES to be the center of attention, when he is not he is mad, so mad that his attacks will hit MUCH harder until he regains that aggro.

The Tanker has a bar that is just like Fury, only its filled up. When its filled up it gives a huge damage boost. NOTE: For this to work the Tanker damage cap would have to be raised an additional 200%.

At full bar, the buff gives 200% more damage.

*HOWEVER* as the Tanker is attacked the bar begins to deplete, very fast the more attacks made against the Tanker. Even if the Tanker is tanking a single opponent the bar will begin decreasing, if the Tanker aggros a group he will only have the damage bonus for the first few attacks and after that the bar will be nearly depleted.

If the Tanker is not being attacked the bar begins to refill at a steady rate.

What does this accomplish?

This gives the Tanker:
  • Burst Damage: For initial Attacks the Tanker will deal huge burst damage
  • Increase Sustained DPS when not being attacked. This allows multiple Tankers that aren't tanking to deal much more damage.
  • Keep Tanker DPS at the same level when being attacked. Thus, a Tanker even being attacked by one opponent will see the bar begin to deplete.
  • Increase Threat Generated. If the Tanker wants to grab the attention of an enemy, his attacks will deal tremendous damage and pull threat.
  • The mechanics will also prevent the Tanker from being some sort of Uber Farmer because once he has aggro the bar depletes.
I suggested a very similar mechanic for Stalkers, on the premise (that the devs acknowledged) that Stalkers are supposed to be burst damage specialists. If you make Tankers burst damage specialists, where does that leave Stalkers (and Blasters for that matter).

Also, if the buff starts at +200%, that means with no aggro Tankers will outdamage both Scrappers and Brutes at any level of team damage buff.


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Posted

yes please.

my double stacked rage IO'd inv/SS tank would love to TP into a crowd and two shot them with footstomp/fireball.

or in other words, what Arcana said above.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
I suggested a very similar mechanic for Stalkers, on the premise (that the devs acknowledged) that Stalkers are supposed to be burst damage specialists. If you make Tankers burst damage specialists, where does that leave Stalkers (and Blasters for that matter).

Also, if the buff starts at +200%, that means with no aggro Tankers will outdamage both Scrappers and Brutes at any level of team damage buff.
I don't think Stalkers fit that anymore considering the changes coming to them.

Also, the idea behind it Arcana is that if you are the only Tanker hitting a mob with such a high damage attack is going to pull threat meaning that after the first attack or two YOU will be targeted. The exception would be having another Tanker or two on the the team. Even then you could pull threat.

Edit: Also a Stalker would still be better in some ways, they can still control their burst via hide and Placate. A tanker would have a hard time controlling dropping their aggro.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldagore View Post
yes please.

my double stacked rage IO'd inv/SS tank would love to TP into a crowd and two shot them with footstomp/fireball.

or in other words, what Arcana said above.
Thing is that wouldn't happen, the second you got aggro (FS has a 2.67 animation time) that bar would be nearly depleted. That is unless someone took the entire alpha strike first.


 

Posted

@Arcana, Also if that number is too high it can be adjusted. The mechanic here is the main focus.


 

Posted

Rewarding Tankers for not having aggro seems like a bad idea.


 

Posted

...you have a lot of random posts with a bunch of different suggestions.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vox Populi View Post
Rewarding Tankers for not having aggro seems like a bad idea.
You say half empty, I say half full.

I see it as a way of doing Burst Threat or sacrificing defenses (Taunt Aura) for more damage.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vox Populi View Post
Rewarding Tankers for not having aggro seems like a bad idea.
Also how is it any different then rewarding a Brute for tanking? According to everyone here, they aren't Tanks.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimus View Post
You say half empty, I say half full.

I see it as a way of doing Burst Threat or sacrificing defenses (Taunt Aura) for more damage.
I see a lot of Tanks standing back and waiting for the Brute to go in first.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimus View Post
Thing is that wouldn't happen, the second you got aggro (FS has a 2.67 animation time) that bar would be nearly depleted. That is unless someone took the entire alpha strike first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vox Populi View Post
I see a lot of Tanks standing back and waiting for the Brute to go in first.
Or a Dom, for that matter.

What's to stop you from just waiting for crowd control to make foe retaliation 0 then going to town without worrying about your Anger depleting?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
Or a Dom, for that matter.

What's to stop you from just waiting for crowd control to make foe retaliation 0 then going to town without worrying about your Anger depleting?
Whats to stop a Controller + Scrapper, Brute, or Blaster from doing the same thing?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vox Populi View Post
I see a lot of Tanks standing back and waiting for the Brute to go in first.
Sure why not? Some Brutes go in first regardless if there is a Tank there and they are WAY more squishy.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimus View Post
@Arcana, Also if that number is too high it can be adjusted. The mechanic here is the main focus.
Right, but if the number isn't high, it won't cause more Threat generated. Doesn't that mean it would HAVE to put their damage higher than Brutes or Scrappers to generate more Threat in this way?


*sigh* I'm...with Arcana on this one.

It really does put out Stalkers, and in a situation like a BAF where a large group of Tankers can be beating down an AV, the Tankers will be doing more damage combined than all the remaining ATs.

6 Tankers, 5 of them are always not going to have aggro, right?
Then throw debuffs into the mix...yeah, not going to fly.


.


 

Posted

I think one key thing people are forgetting here is Gauntlet. A Tanker's attacks do AOE threat, multiple that by this new damage mechanic and a couple of hits and the spawn will be focused on you.

Yes you could theoretically have a really good Brute Taunt the group, maintain aggro and then do that... or you could just play Tank and invite a Blaster and do the same thing much easier?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimus View Post
Sure why not? Some Brutes go in first regardless if there is a Tank there and they are WAY more squishy.
It does happen sometimes, but if it becomes the most damage-efficient way of doing things, it will happen all the time. You might as well rename Brutes to Tankers, and Tankers to Stalkers. So I guess Stalkers will have to become Brutes.


 

Posted

I posted my toughts in the considated thread. Comes down to it feels like Tankers are penalyzind for fulfilling their design intent.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane View Post
Right, but if the number isn't high, it won't cause more Threat generated. Doesn't that mean it would HAVE to put their damage higher than Brutes or Scrappers to generate more Threat in this way?


*sigh* I'm...with Arcana on this one.

It really does put out Stalkers, and in a situation like a BAF where a large group of Tankers can be beating down an AV, the Tankers will be doing more damage combined than all the remaining ATs.

6 Tankers, 5 of them are always not going to have aggro, right?
Then throw debuffs into the mix...yeah, not going to fly.


.
Lets look at this and see:

A Scrapper is 1.2, or 2.4 with 100% enhancement value.

A Tank is .8, 1.6 with enhancement value, or 3.2 with this buff fully saturated. Ok they are doing Scrapper level damage here. Could easily decrease the value to 150% maybe 175%.

Brute is .75 with Full Fury (200%) and 100% enhancement value they are 300.

*******

This assumes no outside buffs, at the damage cap (Which you say you reach pretty easily by the way Johnny Butane)

A Tanker would be at 5 X .8 = 400

Brute would be .75 X 7.75

Scrapper would be 1.2 X 5 = 6.0

*****

Also regarding to Stalkers, remember the incoming changes to them. They are getting the Assassin Strike changes among others added. They will still be the burst kings by building those charges a la WOW Rogues.


 

Posted

Why do Tankers need any increase in damage? Everything dies already.


If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------

The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

 

Posted

I'm going to have to give a big thumbs down for this, it's effectively penalizing the tanker for doing his job and controlling aggro. This just sounds like a really bad idea... we have enough bad tanker players already who don't try to manage aggro, why on earth should we encourage bad play?


COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimus View Post
Whats to stop a Controller + Scrapper, Brute, or Blaster from doing the same thing?
Nothing, but that's a viable self preservation tactic. Doing that with Anger + crowd control is gaming an exploitable inherent to do more damage.

I don't suppose there's anything wrong with it, but are you admitting that's what you want for Tankers? To go from the guy that tries to herd as many foes to the guy that hangs back and lets the squishies put themselves in danger instead? It's less a 'team preservation tactic' and more a 'selfish want to be the star' and that mentality is something I don't take too kindly of, on a Tanker, a Brute, a Scrapper, a Dom or whatever.

I'm just looking to see if this concept is desirable for the AT...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimus View Post
Brute is .75 with Full Fury (200%) and 100% enhancement value they are 300.
"Full" fury is practically impossible for Brutes to sustain with the new Fury mechanics. 80% fury (+160%) is closer to about the best you can sustain. You can burst above that briefly, but its very difficult to hold it for any length of time.

Some additional potential problems with this mechanics as devised:

1. It heavily skews towards sets with powers like Shield Charge and Lightning Rod, sets that don't really need help relative to the others. See also: Spring attack.

2. It strangely makes Placate and Confuse a Tanker offensive weapon. In particular, it might interact unpredictably with Cognitive Interface.

3. Its unclear if Afraid breaks or suppresses aggro, or just overrides it with a flee. If it breaks or suppresses aggro, see Burn.


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