The only slow attacks in KM are concentrated strike, which is so utterly worth it, and the ranged attacks. From what I've seen most people skip the latter. I did myself and never missed them. Burst is slowish but compared to other pbaoes it isn't half bad. The three basic single target attacks are actually quite fast considering their DPA. If the set seems slow to you, I wonder if you're leaning too heavily on focused burst and repulsing torrent?
Same here. I took my old KM scrapper off the shelf this weekend to do itrials. I quickly learned not to use Concentrated Strike on anything less than a boss because of the corpse-blasting issue. Very annoying. After a few runs, I put the character back on the shelf for exactly this reason.
Incidentally, I can only imagine how bad energy melee players have it since two of their heavy-hitting ST attacks have ridiculously long animations, too. Ouch.
Yeah KM has fairly quick, fluid animating attacks. CS has a longish(2.83s) cast time but man that thing hits like a truck. I've rarely done any corpse blasting with KM. As long as I can keep the PS buff up I really don't care if I occasionally corpse blast something.
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I have focused burst, but typically only use it on runners or at ranged, never when I'm actually at melee.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
The only slow attacks in KM are concentrated strike, which is so utterly worth it, and the ranged attacks. From what I've seen most people skip the latter. I did myself and never missed them. Burst is slowish but compared to other pbaoes it isn't half bad. The three basic single target attacks are actually quite fast considering their DPA. If the set seems slow to you, I wonder if you're leaning too heavily on focused burst and repulsing torrent?
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I don't have quick strike or repulsing torrent in my build. I use body blow, smashing blow, and concetrated strike with burst when appropriate.
I really like that concentrated strike can recharge power siphon, but at the same time if it doesn't get a chance to deal damage it doesn't get a chance to do so. That's actually where I started to become disenamored with the set, when I noticed this happening repeatedly.
KM/Shield here, and the only time I've had a problem with bashing things already dead was in a pretty stellar team on a large map where we were killing to fast that even tabbing and swinging nobody could be sure the target would still be there when the blow landed (i.e., I hit dead targets but then so did other people).
Under construction
I got a Km/Sd to 50 when the set first came out, IO'd it to the max then deleted it shortly after. It is a good set for sure, but I wouldn't rank it as high as dm/sd or fm/sd
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Was that directed at me or just a passing comment?|
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
I got a Km/Sd to 50 when the set first came out, IO'd it to the max then deleted it shortly after. It is a good set for sure, but I wouldn't rank it as high as dm/sd or fm/sd
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FM/SD clearly churns out lots of nice, AE damage and having a heal and endurance siphon is a nice plus for DM/SD. That said, I am quite happy with KM paired up with SD and would not change it if I could (which I suppose I could by making another character). My KM/SD has probably become my favorite character (though I have to say the EM/Nin Stalker has charms).
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Was just a passing comment. I played it just briefly maxxed out and didn't like it as much as fire melee (which has better ST and AE dmg) or dark melee (which has better ST dmg and healing) in terms of performance. Also I always felt the KM attacks looked weird when paired with shield but that has nothing to do with it's performance, KM combos with SD very well mechanicly.
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Originally Posted by Erratic
Was that directed at me or just a passing comment?
FM/SD clearly churns out lots of nice, AE damage and having a heal and endurance siphon is a nice plus for DM/SD. That said, I am quite happy with KM paired up with SD and would not change it if I could (which I suppose I could by making another character). My KM/SD has probably become my favorite character (though I have to say the EM/Nin Stalker has charms). |
Fire had best do more damage as that's its raison d'être. DM is debuffing the chances of its user taking damage and KM is debuffing the damage done to its user.
Checking out DPA in Mids, I can't say that I find DM to be all that different from KM. Shadow Punch and Quick Strike are identical. Smite is about 25% better than Body Blow. Shadow Maul is roughly 57% of Smashing Blow (but Shadow Maul is a cone, so when you hit 2 you've pulled slightly ahead and if you hit more than two all the better. Finally there is Midnight Grasp which a bit more than 16% up on Concentrated Strike (however Concentrated Strike both has a higher base accuracy and has a chance to reset Power Siphon).
I suspect Siphon Power comes into play more often for KM than Soul Drain does for DM.
Under construction
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Shouldn't really be using Shadow Punch in a top end chain and definitely not Shadow Maul. KM's attack chain is alot more complicated than DM's iirc, but I forget what it is off the top of my head. I mostly say what I say because the best rikti pylon times (i19) for DM/SD (fully saturated AAO and SD) were about 40 dps higher (which is alot) than the best times for KM/SD (again fully saturated AAO), again IIRC, I'm not gonna dig through that thread to find it, I haven't really kept up with the thread cause now everyone just posts meaningless times of how fast their lore pets can kill the pylon. |
Originally Posted by Erratic
Fire had best do more damage as that's its raison d'être. DM is debuffing the chances of its user taking damage and KM is debuffing the damage done to its user.
Checking out DPA in Mids, I can't say that I find DM to be all that different from KM. Shadow Punch and Quick Strike are identical. Smite is about 25% better than Body Blow. Shadow Maul is roughly 57% of Smashing Blow (but Shadow Maul is a cone, so when you hit 2 you've pulled slightly ahead and if you hit more than two all the better. Finally there is Midnight Grasp which a bit more than 16% up on Concentrated Strike (however Concentrated Strike both has a higher base accuracy and has a chance to reset Power Siphon). I suspect Siphon Power comes into play more often for KM than Soul Drain does for DM. |
KM's dmg debuff is better than DM's acc debuff though (because you should be softcapped already anyways), but DM has Siphon Life healing.
But yeah, they are pretty similar, DM just pulls ahead a bit in ST dmg and SL sexyness.
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Granted, that healing is something that I have on occassion missed when playing my KM/SD as opposed to my DM/INV. On balance though I (perhaps irrationally) end up giggling to myself more often when I use Burst than I lament not having a heal.
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
KM's dmg debuff is better than DM's acc debuff though (because you should be softcapped already anyways), but DM has Siphon Life healing.
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Under construction
Focused Burst is way too good to skip, but Repulsing Torrent is skippable easily in my opinion.
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I checked out KM's animations in the chargen screen, and I can't fathom why anyone would ever want to play that set.
It's not fighting, it's interpretive dance. I was hard pressed to find any of those "attacks" which looked like they would actually threaten anyone.
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LOL at anyone that says why KM.
To the OP, try KM/EA and I think you will enjoy it. Nice synergy between them.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Originally Posted by Matuse
I checked out KM's animations in the chargen screen, and I can't fathom why anyone would ever want to play that set.
It's not fighting, it's interpretive dance. I was hard pressed to find any of those "attacks" which looked like they would actually threaten anyone. |
Because slamming your hand foward into someone's chest wouldn't actually harm them of course.
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None of them actually look like they do that.| Because slamming your hand foward into someone's chest wouldn't actually harm them of course. |
Every one of the animations is this bizarre little hand twirl like a stage magician pulling a rabbit out of a hat, and then pointing towards the bad guy.
They would be far more appropriate as a blast attack of some kind. They look nothing like melee of any sort.
Great Wall of Prophecy, reveal to us God's will that we may blindly obey.
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As silly as it may look...its a pretty hard hitting set. In PvP, CS hits for like Stalker AS damage without any of the hiding stuff.
Is the damage output over the top in PvE as well or just another wacky PvP mechanic?
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
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CS hits for the same damage as the 'big boys' (KO Blow, Seismic Smash, Total Focus). I think the only attacks that hit for more are Energy Transfer and CU from Street Justice with combo level (don't have StJ to check and I dunno how to see combo damage in Mids). From all those you can only have CU on scrappers, so CS is at least second place.|
Originally Posted by CrazyJerseyan
As silly as it may look...its a pretty hard hitting set. In PvP, CS hits for like Stalker AS damage without any of the hiding stuff.
Is the damage output over the top in PvE as well or just another wacky PvP mechanic? |
But on scrappers CS doesn't crit, it refreshes Power Siphon. The other KM attacks are kinda normal with the rech/end formula. It's a solid set, I haven't played to 50 only because of personal taste (disliked the animations).
And it's not slow, Burst has the same cast time as Whirling Sword and Focused Burst is 2 seconds, faster than Impale at 2.43. Only CS is slowish at 2.83 but still way faster than the 3.3 secs of Thunder Strike, One Thousand Cuts, Total Focus... It's a tiny bit slower than the new Energy Transfer, not bad for a set with one ST hard hitter.
The PvP thing in CS just shows how much PvP is borked - only the scrapper version does ZOMG damage, while the Stalker, Tanker and Brute versions of CS do similar damage in PvP and PvE, God knows why.
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Gotcha and thanks, always wondered if it was ZOMFG!!! in PvE as well.|
Originally Posted by Kioshi
CS hits for the same damage as the 'big boys' (KO Blow, Seismic Smash, Total Focus). I think the only attacks that hit for more are Energy Transfer and CU from Street Justice with combo level (don't have StJ to check and I dunno how to see combo damage in Mids). From all those you can only have CU on scrappers, so CS is at least second place.
But on scrappers CS doesn't crit, it refreshes Power Siphon. The other KM attacks are kinda normal with the rech/end formula. It's a solid set, I haven't played to 50 only because of personal taste (disliked the animations). And it's not slow, Burst has the same cast time as Whirling Sword and Focused Burst is 2 seconds, faster than Impale at 2.43. Only CS is slowish at 2.83 but still way faster than the 3.3 secs of Thunder Strike, One Thousand Cuts, Total Focus... It's a tiny bit slower than the new Energy Transfer, not bad for a set with one ST hard hitter. The PvP thing in CS just shows how much PvP is borked - only the scrapper version does ZOMG damage, while the Stalker, Tanker and Brute versions of CS do similar damage in PvP and PvE, God knows why. |
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"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
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Lol you're saying that just because you gave me cancer on the other thread |
Originally Posted by CrazyJerseyan
Gotcha and thanks, always wondered if it was ZOMFG!!! in PvE as well.
Youre Sexy and You Know It |
Anyway look at how borked it is, from city of data:
Scrapper CS:
PVE: 62.56 Smashing damage + 160.16 Energy damage
PVP: 188.88 Smashing damage + 252.34 Energy damage = 441.22
Now the closest to Scrapper, Stalker CS:
PVE: 55.61 Smashing damage + 142.36 Energy damage
PVP: 50.24 Smashing damage + 129.2 Energy damage
Stalker CS actually does LESS damage in PvP than PvE.
And just to compare, Stalker AS in PvP from Hidden:
97.32 Smashing damage + 41.71 Energy damage + 250.25 Energy damage = 389.28
Really weird right? More damage than AS, yes. And if you take another ST long cast time attack like Eagle's Claw, the closest to CS I could find in activation time that Scrappers have, it does more damage than the PvE version but not by a huge margin (funnily enough, Eagle's Claw on Scrappers/Tankers does 50% more dmg on PvP, on Stalkers the PvP version does like 20 damage less than PvE, so PvP is messed up on a lot of powers, but more on CS).
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It may be because my KM character is carrying a shield, but that is what I see quite often.
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Originally Posted by Matuse
None of them actually look like they do that.
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Under construction
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Its always nice to look at the actual #s and thanks. Yeah, its one of the many powers that Ive seen ppl screaming for a nerf since KM came out. Im not much for playing FOTM/OP toons but have been on the opposite end of KMs and been 2-3 shotted while playing Stalkers and my ranged characters. Im not one for broad nerfs considering the current state of PvP, but it seems like anyone that is competitive would only take KM for Scrappers with the other primaries being an afterthought. A little wacky since the devs wanted a greater variety in PvP but there are sets like KM that do so much more damage than their conterparts.|
Originally Posted by Kioshi
Lol you're saying that just because you gave me cancer on the other thread
Anyway look at how borked it is, from city of data: Scrapper CS: PVE: 62.56 Smashing damage + 160.16 Energy damage PVP: 188.88 Smashing damage + 252.34 Energy damage = 441.22 Now the closest to Scrapper, Stalker CS: PVE: 55.61 Smashing damage + 142.36 Energy damage PVP: 50.24 Smashing damage + 129.2 Energy damage Stalker CS actually does LESS damage in PvP than PvE. And just to compare, Stalker AS in PvP from Hidden: 97.32 Smashing damage + 41.71 Energy damage + 250.25 Energy damage = 389.28 Really weird right? More damage than AS, yes. And if you take another ST long cast time attack like Eagle's Claw, the closest to CS I could find in activation time that Scrappers have, it does more damage than the PvE version but not by a huge margin (funnily enough, Eagle's Claw on Scrappers/Tankers does 50% more dmg on PvP, on Stalkers the PvP version does like 20 damage less than PvE, so PvP is messed up on a lot of powers, but more on CS). |
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"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
So, I created a KM/Regen scrapper and I really liked the animations and even the odd sound of KM. The biggest thing that I got really sick of was the fact that half the time I'd attack my target would be dead before I actually got to deal damage to it.
Now, maybe this isn't as much of a problem as I was thinking it was when I was playing the character, but I'm thinking of remaking this character as a KM/EA.
Do you players of kinetic melee character find the corpse bashing to be extremely frequent and/or annoying? Or have you not noticed this as a problem at all?