Proposal: Hybrid Archetype

That's why the idea is a new AT akin to Widows/Soldiers which have a mix of range and melee attacks and defense sets.

As for combining the attacks, it would just mean having punches with the pistols in hand and no reason the pistols can't be in hand while performing a kick.

That's why I suggested the Gunslinger AT!

It can copy the VEAT style of powers easily.

Hehe... Who is that!?!?
No!

I see. It still sound to me like you want more variety in the Existing VEAT's.. not so much to remake a whole new AT! Sure, animations can be added.. some powers can have 2 different animation styles. You want Dual Handed stances instead of the Grip the Rifle stance! Thats understandable! Hehe.. now i cant stop thinking how silly those MasterMind Minions look, standing still with dual pistols! hehe kinda just want to say to them "There There.. that stance suits u very well" then look to the side and roll my eyes!

Surprisingly No! Read a few posts back about Max Value limit about Fulcrum Shift and Enervating Field! Buffs/Debuss/ etc.. will all have a Max Value based on the players level.

You really, really should endeavour to understand the game before you try to concept major changes to it.

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

I think you misunderstood - I just want the inherent weakness gimmick to be scrapped.

You're right! My mindset, at least when talking about Defense, is how much a defenders Defense will benefit my scrapper/brute/tank! Guilty!

55% total Defense on my Scrapper isnt gonna cut it on an I-Trail!

15% is already the Max Defense from some of those Defender buffs.

So... since this is the Next Generation AT.. only a wee bit more defense should be added to the Max Value limit for +Def. Buff.

So... hypothetically:

level 10 (+Def) = 11 + 1 = 12
level 20 (+Def) = 12 + 2 = 14
level 30 (+Def) = 13 + 3 = 16
level 40 (+Def) = 14 + 4 = 18
level 50 (+Def) = 15 + 5 = 20% Max Defense

These are educated guesses! I leave the Math to the Pros!
All im reading is Why NOT to do it!! Where are the comments for Why Yes!!??
There is 80% Merit to this approach! Yea.. sure it needs work! Positive feedback appreciated!

The Whole point is to make it unappealing to get 2 15% +Def. Buffs. and let players get some other cool powers from that powerset.

So.. Single Target +Def Buffs like Ice Shield would get 60% - 70% (not sure yet) of the Max Defense limit (at lvl 50, Max might be.. lets say 20% ish)

Steamy Mist would get the rest 30% - 40%, since its an AoE, and not as good as a Single target buff.
Maybe just use the Level that power was taken that will determine the Frontloaded +Def. Buff of 60% to it?!?

Nah.. That would be giving up! You shouldnt give up so easily!

Anyways... this might help in the long run!

Any yes.. irony is.. As soon as someone reads the initial part of this thread, they become biased. No one wants to allow for the mechanics to change a bit! Plus.. this doesnt Have to affect the current mechanics of existing ATs. The Max Value limit would only affect this new AT.

My idea is more of a way to pull off what I (and others) want and make it possible.

I will disgaree that such a thing or what your suggesting is a waste of time in the creation department.

Especially in the new market system. They could create it, give it to VIPs for free and have it be a puchasable AT for Preemies.

You're misreading that quote. FFG + Ice shields wasn't the combo TheBruteSquad was pointing to as OP, after all, he only called it 'nice'. But FFG + Empathy heals would be even more powerful, and doesn't even run into the max limit you've proposed.

An idea like this can, in principle, be balanced. But you cannot just tack it onto an existing system and expect everything to work out. You're talking about an incredibly huge revamp, and it doesn't even do anything for existing characters, only new characters using the new AT. If the devs are going to spend a year or more of development on something, I would rather not have to delete characters to use it.
Good question. It's your suggestion, you should be making the case for why it's desirable, not us. Other than extremely overpowered combinations, what are the benefits of this system? What character concepts or playstyles does it make possible that cannot be done under the current system?

> But FFG + Empathy heals would be even more powerful...

Yes, it might! Except that I think players wont take both Single Target heals anymore, since they wont have to heal as much! I'm biased against Empaths, btw! Growing up, most Coin-Op Arcade games i played always let the player heal themselves somehow, with.. a turkey, soda can, burger, etc... When i started with CoH, i really didnt know what to make of Empathy, and ignored it for a very good while, and only very recently did i try out a Pain Domination powerset on a Thugs mastermind. On a mastermind i already knew i would need to BabySit the pets... but that meant also Defenders would need to BabySit players too! I Cant Do That! Well, I can, but I'd get Bored after about 10 minutes!
And, its just outright cheating when you can heal someone from almost No Heath to close to Full Health in 2 clicks anyways! I think people will just get 1 Single Target heal from empathy for this AT! But, its a Defenders prerogative!
It doesnt make sense to get 2 ST Heals, if you're almost never going to use both of them!
Anyways Radiation has been lacking a Single Target heal for a Loooong time! Even an O2 Boost would be better than nothing!

> ..you cannot just tack it onto an existing system and expect everything to work out.

I know. I've been a developer for most of my life! But I've been a Gamer for even longer! I guess it was because of Games I got into development in the 1st place. Of course it will take time! Heh... a pyramid wasnt built in a day!

Anyways, it doesnt have to be All or Nothing! In this case, the Melee Sets, Blast Sets, would be part of the 1st roll-out. We can see how well players receive it. 2nd Phase can be the Support Sets. If it proves to be Too Challenging, they dont have to roll it out anytime soon! Eventually though, players Will Want It, and they can say Its Still On the Drawing Board!

> You're talking about an incredibly huge revamp, and it doesn't even do anything for existing characters, only new characters using the new AT.

Oh.. Good! Less work! Since it doesnt benefit existing ATs, less work is needed, since they dont have to touch them at all!

> If the devs are going to spend a year or more of development on something, I would rather not have to delete characters to use it.

I dont know about you, but.. CoH is a great game and i've spent close to 7 years in it... and gotten great enjoyment! I feel kinda bad that I got to enjoy something sooo good and not really giving back to show my appreciation. So... once in a while... i purchase more character slots or whatever i think i want.. and I do it knowing that its going to secure CoH's future for a good few years longer. Or at least I hope it will!
You can delete characters if you want, but... lets let the developers ballpark the time/effort involved themselves!

This is the eventual AT, and as you can see.. even with VEAT', people will start asking for More VEAT Powers, More, More, More. They will eventually want most of the powers from some of the powersets added to a VEAT. And it wont just be one powerset.. Eventually it will be Most of the powersets! This new AT will Nip that need in the BUDDD!

I did! And was not really sure what those previous posters were talking about, so i didnt say too much!
I still wish there wasnt as much KnockBack though.. in Human form!
If I could I'd allow players to Slot KnockBack enhancements.. and Only Then would it Knock Back.. otherwise.. if there were no KnockBack Enhancements in there, it would just KnockDown.. well, for the Humanform Footstomp at least.

I love Energy Blast, one of my very 1st Blasters! I still get the chills when i remember playing on him! It felt like i was on a roller coaster, waves of excitement would overcome me as I tried to blast the enemies before they could get me! And the visuals and sound Fx made me feel like i was in an actual CGI movie! (Fx, visual or sound, make it a greater experience) And PB's shine in that arena! Some great Fx went into that AT and i still love it for that!

I wont get into some of the powers that I just hate, as far as visual Fx... (ehem.. Sonic Shield.. with its super thick Audio Wave)
I actually had to quit a Synapse once because of a player w/ a Bright White Sonic Shield. Every time I'm just about to jump into an enemy group, i scope out the distant foes to assess the difficulty of there being an adjacent enemy grp close by. And as im looking for the boss in the group, (still looking at a distance, eyes focus for distance changes.. even in a game.) and WHAM.. all of a Sudden theres a Bright White Sonic Wall, i mean Shield, that gets in the way and my Vision is all out of Whack. (As you might or might not know, its very bad to instantly change focus from far to near, etc..) And as I struggle to get some focus back, a Sharp Pain in the back of my eye just hits, like a Dull Needle sticking me! Let me tell you, its not that Pleasant! Its worse than getting a Root canal!
There should be a Slogan for Sonic Shield: "Its GOOD for you, but Painful!"

You paid them back by paying for the subcription

Yeah, while I don't want AT/Powersets to change to KD, I fully admit it's the KB that keeps me not liking to play PBs. :/

See, once you place IO Sets into a PB, you dont need to keep the enemy away from you as much, since your defense is much better. But you cannot slot for -KB into powers that have +KB!

What you mean is a points-based ability purchase system, kind of like the HERO system aka Champions PnP.

This would be *incredibly difficult* to do with the current powers system. It would be easier to do for NPCs because you can err on the side of caution when it comes to building NPC ability. The Architect custom critter system works on a very simplified version of such a system.

But to do this on the player side would require so much limiters and cut-offs you'd just be fielding complaint after complaint about why this power costs this much when it should cost that much, from people who were just wildly guessing. Unless your system was anchored in bedrock, it would be a huge mess to deal with.

I say that as someone who's thought through the entire process from beginning to end, without skipping any steps, with real numbers. Its not impossible, but with our system you either hit the bullseye, or you end up completely broken. There's no middle ground.

> .. kind of like the HERO system aka Champions PnP.

Honestly, i only play CoH! I tried DCUO briefly, but it feels like you're a vaporous cloud! It doesnt ground you much! I did like the audio commentaries, but HATED the 12 GB it took up on my hard drive! >
In CoH.. if anything, those Rectangular Boxes with Text, (you see them show up in the Sewer Trial), can have a Static Picture of the NPC thats saying something, accompany the text. left-hand side or right.. doesnt matter!

> Unless your system was anchored in bedrock, it would be a huge mess to deal with.

Let the Devs figure it out! Thats not your job! Our job is to have fun! Let them earn their paychecks! (hehe.. not like they dont already) They created a whole system without us in the 1st place! Have some faith!


> Its not impossible, ...! There's no middle ground.

Well, theres always room for improvement! PB's were awesome from the start, but players were too jealous of them. So, they were nerfed! Not because they werent good to start with, other players felt inadequate!
I get it! Thats why this Mixed Breed AT wont make other players feel inadequate. it just slightly does things better, IF, and only IF, the player knows what he/she is doing!
This isnt STAPLES! Just becuase u have a certain AT doesnt mean you'll be Ubber! No EASY button 4 u!

What.

What ???? ROFL !!!! BRUAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

Agreed

Being a very experienced Hero System PnP player ( since the first editions almost 20 years ago ), This would be impossible to implement in the current system and even if you made a new system from scratch it would be very easy to be overpowered or totally gimped..