Quote:
Ok... which one is it then? He started by saying "Using Assassin Strike out of hide is still interruptible. It is the only way of dealing that massive scale 7 damage and inflicting demoralize."|
Originally Posted by BrandX
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And then he said "The out of hide Assassin Strike should benefit all secondary sets relatively equally as it isn't interruptible.".
T_T
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
I'm pretty sure, while in the hidden status, you get the scale 7, inflict demoralize attack.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Ok... which one is it then? He started by saying "Using Assassin Strike out of hide is still interruptible. It is the only way of dealing that massive scale 7 damage and inflicting demoralize."
And then he said "The out of hide Assassin Strike should benefit all secondary sets relatively equally as it isn't interruptible.". T_T |
While in the unhidden status, you get a superior damage level attack.
My guess is that it loses the demoralize effect, and is purely a OMG damage attack, since outside of demoralize, Assassin Strikes have no secondary effect.
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Quote:
But scale 7 is only 140ish damage. That is lower than what the current AS does from hidden isn't it? |
Originally Posted by BrandX
I'm pretty sure, while in the hidden status, you get the scale 7, inflict demoralize attack.
While in the unhidden status, you get a superior damage level attack. My guess is that it loses the demoralize effect, and is purely a OMG damage attack, since outside of demoralize, Assassin Strikes have no secondary effect. |
I am under the impression that when using AS "outside" of hidden, you get index 7 + demoralize.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Demoralize only works while Hidden now, so this isn't really a change as far as Demoralize goes. As for Synapse's comments, I think he just misspoke earlier. The context around all this seems pretty clear. The change is to make AS uninterruptible with a shortened animation when not used in the Hidden state (i.e. either from Hide or after Placate).
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Quote:
Blah, I am not sure why I am so confused. This sentence "With the discussed changes they'll still be able to use the Assassin's Strike power and if they stack enough Assassin's Focus they'll be able to deal pretty massive damage very quickly"... it sounds like Focus can shorten activation time or Focus just gives you burst damage through critical Assassin Strike? |
Originally Posted by Zem
Demoralize only works while Hidden now, so this isn't really a change as far as Demoralize goes. As for Synapse's comments, I think he just misspoke earlier. The context around all this seems pretty clear. The change is to make AS uninterruptible with a shortened animation when not used in the Hidden state (i.e. either from Hide or after Placate).
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In short:
Assassin Strike OUT OF HIDDEN status:
1. Damage scale 7 (140ish damage)
2. UNinterruptable
Assassin Strike DURING HIDDEN status:
1. Higher damage than index 7
2. Demoralize
3. Interruptable
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
No. Currently Assassin Strike is scale 7 WHILE hidden. That's scale 2.5 base damage plus scale 4.5 critical. |
Originally Posted by Jibikao
But scale 7 is only 140ish damage. That is lower than what the current AS does from hidden isn't it?
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The 140 you're thinking of is the current normal base damage of Assassin Strike (scale 2.5). Also called the "Waylay" portion (if you read the combat log). For a level 50 Stalker, 1.0 melee damage scale = 55.61 damage.
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Quote:
*shrug* Going by mids right now Assassin Strike (StJ) deals roughly 323 (slotted up with lvl 33 ToD) when unhidden. In hidden status it does 835 with the same slotting.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
But scale 7 is only 140ish damage. That is lower than what the current AS does from hidden isn't it?
I am under the impression that when using AS "outside" of hidden, you get index 7 + demoralize. |
And I'm not sure, but I think while hidden AS has a chance to do more damage than that (I THINK not sure).
Either way, that 835 is more damage than using Crushing Impact while hidden (lvl 1 and 2). Not to much more though.
Some of this will all have to wait till more details are known. But if they can give Stalkers a truely superior damage attack available at level 6, without changing the RCH or END COST, people can start making that part of their attack strings (it may be costly on the END)
And personally, that's really all I wanted out of my Stalker. DPS equal to Scrappers/Brutes without the worry about being interrupted (and with softcapped defenses, I was often interrupted when hitting placate -> AS in the middle of tough single target fights).
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Quote:
I am looking at mids and it shows 20ish brawl base damage. I just did a simple 20 x 7. LOL Ok, I got it now. |
Originally Posted by Zem
No. Currently Assassin Strike is scale 7 WHILE hidden. That's scale 2.5 base damage plus scale 4.5 critical.
The 140 you're thinking of is the current normal base damage of Assassin Strike (scale 2.5). Also called the "Waylay" portion (if you read the combat log). For a level 50 Stalker, 1.0 melee damage scale = 55.61 damage. |
So basically the new Assassin Strike will have no change during Hidden then? It is still 7 index and interruptable.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
Yeah, hopefully the new Assassin Strike out of hidden + Focus can increase overall dps to match Brute/Scrapper on his own.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
And personally, that's really all I wanted out of my Stalker. DPS equal to Scrappers/Brutes without the worry about being interrupted (and with softcapped defenses, I was often interrupted when hitting placate -> AS in the middle of tough single target fights).
|
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
Oh, is that what you're getting at...|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Blah, I am not sure why I am so confused. This sentence "With the discussed changes they'll still be able to use the Assassin's Strike power and if they stack enough Assassin's Focus they'll be able to deal pretty massive damage very quickly"... it sounds like Focus can shorten activation time or Focus just gives you burst damage through critical Assassin Strike?
In short: Assassin Strike OUT OF HIDDEN status: 1. Damage scale 7 (140ish damage) 2. UNinterruptable Assassin Strike DURING HIDDEN status: 1. Higher damage than index 7 2. Demoralize 3. Interruptable |
Well, if AS can get an animation time of 1.056-1.542 (arcana time) when not in hidden status...it looks like to me, it's normal damage for being used outside of Hide (as of on Live) would put it at superior level damage.
304.4 (unhidden)
802.6 (hidden)
*99.08 DMG enhancement with StJ AS*
Still an awesome opener (and used as one whenever the chance appears) but then afterwards one can switch to beat em up mode and not have to worry about going back into hide state.
And if they do make the new AT Specific IOs, Assassin Strike would be where I put that chance for Hidden status Proc. *nod*
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Quote:
All I ever wanted personally.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Yeah, hopefully the new Assassin Strike out of hidden + Focus can increase overall dps to match Brute/Scrapper on his own.
|
I did feel my KM/WP Stalker was less survivable than my DB/WP with equal slotting, which didn't bother, but the feel of lower damage? Meh. And all I wanted was equal to, not looking to surpass at all.
Of course, I freely admit, I play my Stalkers like Scrappers with a stealth power.
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Yeah, this is my guess....
Assassin Strike when NOT hidden:
1. Scale 2.5 damage
2. Uninteruptible with shortened animation time.
3. Scale 2.5 random critical at Stalker's current random crit chance PLUS an unspecified bonus %-chance due to Assassin's Focus.
Assassin Strike when Hidden (same as it is now):
1. Scale 2.5 damage.
2. Interruptible with current animation time.
3. Scale 4.5 critical.
4. Demoralize.
Remember that "superior" is less than "extreme". 
Not that they are totally consistent with the terminology since it is just the text description in most powers. Eagle's Claw is scale 2.92 and is called "superior" while Total Focus is scale 3.56 and is called "extreme". So scale 2.5 (the current base damage of Assassin Strike) seems right in line with a "superior" damage attack.
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Quote:
Which is good, because that's pretty much how they are designed.
|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Of course, I freely admit, I play my Stalkers like Scrappers with a stealth power.
|
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Quote:
Well, I don't know how others or the majority or what the Stalker "pros" consider the best tactics with Stalkers.|
Originally Posted by Zem
Which is good, because that's pretty much how they are designed.
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I just know back at release of CoV with my EM/SR to my KM/WP that's how I played them. I like Stalkers for the concept of stealthy types. But that didnt mean I didn't want them to be less than fighters
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Quote:
I hope it's not too hard to create two separate activation time for the same power. It sounds "buggy" to me but we'll see. |
Originally Posted by Zem
Yeah, this is my guess....
Assassin Strike when NOT hidden: 1. Scale 2.5 damage 2. Uninteruptible with shortened animation time. 3. Scale 2.5 random critical at Stalker's current random crit chance PLUS an unspecified bonus %-chance due to Assassin's Focus. Assassin Strike when Hidden (same as it is now): 1. Scale 2.5 damage. 2. Interruptible with current animation time. 3. Scale 4.5 critical. 4. Demoralize. Remember that "superior" is less than "extreme". Not that they are totally consistent with the terminology since it is just the text description in most powers. Eagle's Claw is scale 2.92 and is called "superior" while Total Focus is scale 3.56 and is called "extreme". So scale 2.5 (the current base damage of Assassin Strike) seems right in line with a "superior" damage attack. |
If AS-out-of-hidden has faster animation time, it needs to have better DPA than the current "heavy hitter" like Eagle Claw and Midnight Grasp. Sets like Spines will enjoy this change the most since its ST sucks hard. I know I rarely open the battle with BU + AS on my lvl 50 Spines but it's nice to have a melee attack that is better than Impale.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
That mechanic is kinda what Titan Weapons is all about. |
Originally Posted by Jibikao
I hope it's not too hard to create two separate activation time for the same power. It sounds "buggy" to me but we'll see.
If AS-out-of-hidden has faster animation time, it needs to have better DPA than the current "heavy hitter" like Eagle Claw and Midnight Grasp. Sets like Spines will enjoy this change the most since its ST sucks hard. I know I rarely open the battle with BU + AS on my lvl 50 Spines but it's nice to have a melee attack that is better than Impale. |
1 attack, 2 different animation times.
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Quote:
If the design goal can't increase Stalker's DPS to match or surpass Brute/Scrapper, then it defeats the purpose. The current Stalker can surpass some Brutes but not all of them since their fury increases secondary damage.
|
Originally Posted by BrandX
All I ever wanted personally.
I did feel my KM/WP Stalker was less survivable than my DB/WP with equal slotting, which didn't bother, but the feel of lower damage? Meh. And all I wanted was equal to, not looking to surpass at all. Of course, I freely admit, I play my Stalkers like Scrappers with a stealth power. |
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
That was my point. All I wanted myself was more damage. These changes do that, while looking to keep it different than higher damage mod. Could be interresting and fun. Could be the same thing but different.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
If the design goal can't increase Stalker's DPS to match or surpass Brute/Scrapper, then it defeats the purpose. The current Stalker can surpass some Brutes but not all of them since their fury increases secondary damage.
|
Either way I look forward to seeing these changes hopefully going through.
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Quote:
So you hit with certain attacks to gain a "buff" (Momentum) so the other attacks activate faster.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
That mechanic is kinda what Titan Weapons is all about.
1 attack, 2 different animation times. |
Could this Assassin Focus be the "Momentum" that speeds up Assassin Strike?
I mean you need to gain some kind of "buff" icon to shorten the activation time right? I don't think you can have an attack that has two separate activation time without any buff since getting back in "Hidden Status" (a buff?) actually reverts back to the old activation time.
Maybe the whole Stalker AT feels like Titan Weapon afterall... LOL
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
Actually, it's possible it can be two completely different powers if I'm reading CoD right (which by the way is updated... yay!) There's a line item to "redirect" to a different power. It looks like it can have different everything.. not just animation time.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
That mechanic is kinda what Titan Weapons is all about.
1 attack, 2 different animation times. |
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Quote:
I figured it'd be the Hidden Status that speeds it up or slows it down (for different amounts of damage and effects).
|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
So you hit with certain attacks to gain a "buff" (Momentum) so the other attacks activate faster.
Could this Assassin Focus be the "Momentum" that speeds up Assassin Strike? I mean you need to gain some kind of "buff" icon to shorten the activation time right? |
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My understanding of TW is if your "momentum" rate is > 1, then you get the faster animations, with each power granting "momentum" exclusively for five seconds without being able to overlap. If by porting that same mechanic to stalkers, they just replaced "momentum" with the k meter (commonly referred to as "hidden"), so that you use the interruption animations whether you are hidden or just after a placate, but the faster animation if your k meter is < 1.
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On balancing the different AS powers, I like them different. but would be open to it being balanced.
Still for me the key is not only to beat the brutes and scrappers in single-target damage, but any change means we need to beat them by enough that our lack of AoE is not a weakness to the team. In my mind I want to see AS 1-shotting bosses from hide with buildup, and killing lieuts without buildup (obviously will vary from boss-to-boss based on resistances, slotting, etc). And the other attacks need to have enough increase that we aren't a 1-trick pony.
As for the HP, I would have preferred that they tweak the powers to give us something instead of the +hp. Make it different. Some resist all, a heal over time, something. Just going the +hp further blurs the difference between us and scrappers and in the long run I think that's a bad thing.
Quote:
Just wanted to throw this back out because I wanted to be clear I Wasn't asking to give stalkers AoE, I was saying that I want the single target damage to be high enough to make it competitive with AoE-heavy characters.
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
Well, you get no sympathy from me with regards to AoEs in MA or EM (really, those sets are mediocre to poor for AoE for *any* AT...and for DM, well, Soul Drain is indeed a loss, but Dark Consumption isn't much to cry about for AoE or utility....claws is another story, but yeah, you want AoE then pick an AoE set)
. |
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Quote:
But if you are back to "hidden status", then you are back to the old AS with index 7 + demoralize? |
Originally Posted by BrandX
I figured it'd be the Hidden Status that speeds it up or slows it down (for different amounts of damage and effects).
|
I guess when you are out of hidden, you still get a "buff" icon which suppresses stealth.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Link
There you go.
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