Electric Melee / Shield
Dew Et.
Spines / Fire also works - you don't even have to push buttons to AoE the things, you just need to, like, be.
And if you push buttons, you can AoE them three times over.
Spines, elec, claws/fire, dark, elec
Fire, elec/sd
Pick whatever flavor appeals best to you. Sd is nice to keep the mobs close for your aoe's.
Electric is fun for the gimmicky (and powerful) El/SD but I prefer having more consistent AOE. I'd look at maybe Fire or the like.
This is coming from someone that has a 50 IO'd out El/ED btw 
I love my Fire/Shield, and have pretty good AoE, but Fire Sword Circle, Shield Charge and Fire Ball are probably not as good as it gets. Surely Electric/Shield has better AoE?
I haven't looked too hard, but I was hoping to find a point of comparison on YouTube. It certainly appears that my Fire/Shield kills +3x8 Council faster (40 seconds per spawn including travel time) than a random Electric/Shield kills +1x8 (?) Council (60 seconds per spawn including travel time). I do have the alpha slot level Shift (no other incarnate powers though). Who knows what sort of build a random Scrapper on YouTube is running, though, plus their mobs seemed scattered more than mine. For what it's worth:
Fire/ShieldAnyone have a good example of good kill speed on Council with an Electric/Shield? A Spines/Fire? Other?
Electric/Shield
Mind you, I have no idea if we're talking about AoE while leveling, AoE on SOs at 50, AoE fully IO'd and incarnated, or what.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
I made a spines/dark before spines/fire was an option. Lots of AoE there. Even the self-heal is an AoE attack.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
Moving outside of Scrappers, I've seen a Super Strength/Fire Brute just destroy my Fire/Shield for spawn kill speed. I think they're generally acknowledged as outliers. Might be worth a look.
My Electric/Fire Scrapper had great burst AoE damage for leveling. This duo'd well with a Tanker to keep me alive and grab big groups for maximum damage. I kind of blinked and we were 50. I suspect it would suck solo, though.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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The only viable farmer from those secondaries is SD. The others on a scrapper will just cause all of the enemies to scatter. All of them are excellent on Brutes however.|
Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
Spines, elec, claws/fire, dark, elec
Fire, elec/sd Pick whatever flavor appeals best to you. Sd is nice to keep the mobs close for your aoe's. |
To farm on a scrapper you really only have 3 secondary options; Shield, Willpower and Invulnerability. Anything else and you will spend all your time chasing runners, which will reduce your kill speed tremendously.
I have had a pet project to see if I could make a /DA scrapper work by locking enemies in place with Cloak of Fear so they don't run, but I keep getting sidetracked by other projects.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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I don't know about suck, it might be hard to get it survivable solo pre-IOs but I bet you could get a decent chunk of defense in there. Combined with Healing Flames and the resistance from fire, that should keep you alive long enough for massive AoE damage to kill the spawn.|
Originally Posted by Werner
Moving outside of Scrappers, I've seen a Super Strength/Fire Brute just destroy my Fire/Shield for spawn kill speed. I think they're generally acknowledged as outliers. Might be worth a look.
My Electric/Fire Scrapper had great burst AoE damage for leveling. This duo'd well with a Tanker to keep me alive and grab big groups for maximum damage. I kind of blinked and we were 50. I suspect it would suck solo, though. |
That said, SS/Fire Brutes are the currently acknowledged uber AoE/farming engines of destruction. They have an enormous damage bonus, Footstomp, and Fiery Embrace. Put together, it makes them insane. So much so, that I personally refuse to make one. But it may be within the OPs interests ; )
@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian
AOE everything? Titanic Weapons/yourmama. Seriously.
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Hew in drag baby
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Titan/Fire Brute will be a monster, especially with a yummy base 10% melee bonus to get you going on mitigation.
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Originally Posted by OneFrigidWitch
AOE everything? Titanic Weapons/yourmama. Seriously.
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Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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I guess I miss-read the op when he said he wanted strong aoe scrapper sets for farming.|
Originally Posted by Moonlighter
The only viable farmer from those secondaries is SD. The others on a scrapper will just cause all of the enemies to scatter. All of them are excellent on Brutes however.
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No doubt that the aggro shields are great for keeping the mobs together, but really, I have never been left feeling that my spines/fire scrapper is crap for farming. Maybe not optimal, but never left in the dust either. Also, if you are sitting at +2's the spawn won't have a chance to scatter. +4's are a different story.
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Maybe the Spines slow helps with that?|
Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
I guess I miss-read the op when he said he wanted strong aoe scrapper sets for farming.
No doubt that the aggro shields are great for keeping the mobs together, but really, I have never been left feeling that my spines/fire scrapper is crap for farming. Maybe not optimal, but never left in the dust either. Also, if you are sitting at +2's the spawn won't have a chance to scatter. +4's are a different story. |
I know I rerolled my Katana/Fire scrapper because it took me two to three times as long to clear a map because everything immediately runs when I hit Lotus Drops, never mind Burn. It was really a useless character. I don't even want to talk about the time I was trying to finish my Freak Tank badge solo with my MA/SR scrapper back in the day before I realized I should just run a TF.
On a happier note I am having a lot of fun on my Broadsword/Fire Brute.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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It does.
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Originally Posted by Moonlighter
Maybe the Spines slow helps with that?
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Culex's resistance guide
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I've never timed myself but undoubtedly it would be slower. Elec/Shield excels at burst damage - a full buffed Lightning Rod is really a wonder to behold. But outside of that burst it doesn't have a lot of AOE potential. It has chain lightning (not exactly a wonder at AOE) and jacob's ladder (nice, but a relatively short cone), and then it relies on attacks from it's secondary or APP/PPP. For all the crazy damage that Lightning Rod does at the start, it doesn't have particularly good sustained DPS.
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Originally Posted by Werner
Anyone have a good example of good kill speed on Council with an Electric/Shield? A Spines/Fire? Other?
Mind you, I have no idea if we're talking about AoE while leveling, AoE on SOs at 50, AoE fully IO'd and incarnated, or what. |
Spines/EA is nice for AoE. It has a Taunt/Slow aura that boosts your recharge that has great synergy with quills and helps the other AoEs recharge faster. The taunt will keep mobs from scattering everywhere, which is the problem with Fire on a scrapper. I shelved mine though, I couldn't put up with the lack of good ST damage.
I'll agree with Titan Weapons when it comes out, but when mature, War Mace has some really decent AOE. Plus you are STRONG. You can be STRONG and PRETTY or STRONG and BASHY.
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If we're talking top end builds fighting uplevel x8, though, that burst damage can be done on every single spawn, just like I was doing Shield Charge on every spawn. I'll agree that Thunder Strike isn't as good as Fire Sword Circle due to the smaller radius (7' vs. 10'), though. I'm betting that's a problem in practice. Still, I'd think one nice Lightning Rod per spawn would more than make up for it.|
Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
I've never timed myself but undoubtedly it would be slower. Elec/Shield excels at burst damage - a full buffed Lightning Rod is really a wonder to behold. But outside of that burst it doesn't have a lot of AOE potential. It has chain lightning (not exactly a wonder at AOE) and jacob's ladder (nice, but a relatively short cone), and then it relies on attacks from it's secondary or APP/PPP. For all the crazy damage that Lightning Rod does at the start, it doesn't have particularly good sustained DPS.
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But yeah, now I'm thinking they'd have similar performance.
Maybe, though, Electric could do better at lower level crowds? Stagger the two big hitters, Shield Charge one group, Lightning Rod the other. Use Ball Lightning or Fire Ball in combination with Thunder Strike to do the remaining AoE. Maybe don't even pause to finish off whatever's left - just head to the next group and nuke it with whatever AoEs are up. Nuke, move, nuke, move. If something catches up, they'll go down. If they don't catch up, it wouldn't be worth the time to finish them off.
I'm just theorizing, though.
And I can see wanting better sustained output for an ambush farm, say. I'm counting travel time in the mix here, giving attacks a chance to recharge.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
90 second recharge on Lightning Rod means it's up roughly every 25-30 seconds. Maybe I'm used to my SS/FA but having Footstomp every 5 - 6 seconds and having a whole spawn cleared out by the time the second footstomp hits, but clearing a spawn in 30 seconds is slow.
Maybe if you are fighting much higher levelled enemies things might be different but I always found the twice a minute "boom" to not quite be as good as consistent reliable damage.
Spines/Fire is good but the mobs running may get annoying.
I have a lot of fun on my MA/Fire toon tricked out for tons of recharge. In my very brief experience of farming AE tickets, I was hitting my ticket max (on a 1500 max map) in 2 minutes (just as the 2nd set of +defense insperations wears off, so that's not an exagerated estimate). I really don't know what SS/FA brutes do in that scenario, but that felt very fast.
Granted my survivability isn't rock solid like a lot of scrapper forumites would prefer, but I do jump into 4x8 spawns solo all the time using shadow meld... the trick is that if i don't kill everything in 15 seconds (I usually do) I may have to scramble for a few seconds while shadowmeld recharges or use my self rez to get back into the fight.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
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Anybody used the spring attack to add a port 3rd nuke to this combo? I always wanted to try that.
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Originally Posted by Werner
If we're talking top end builds fighting uplevel x8, though, that burst damage can be done on every single spawn, just like I was doing Shield Charge on every spawn. I'll agree that Thunder Strike isn't as good as Fire Sword Circle due to the smaller radius (7' vs. 10'), though. I'm betting that's a problem in practice. Still, I'd think one nice Lightning Rod per spawn would more than make up for it.
But yeah, now I'm thinking they'd have similar performance. Maybe, though, Electric could do better at lower level crowds? Stagger the two big hitters, Shield Charge one group, Lightning Rod the other. Use Ball Lightning or Fire Ball in combination with Thunder Strike to do the remaining AoE. Maybe don't even pause to finish off whatever's left - just head to the next group and nuke it with whatever AoEs are up. Nuke, move, nuke, move. If something catches up, they'll go down. If they don't catch up, it wouldn't be worth the time to finish them off. I'm just theorizing, though. And I can see wanting better sustained output for an ambush farm, say. I'm counting travel time in the mix here, giving attacks a chance to recharge. |
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
Spring Attack does as much damage as Footstomp in the tiny radius right around the impact point. In the bigger radius (which isn't as big as Shield Charge ; I'd estimate it at 15 feet, but not sure), it does about the same damage as the weakest AoEs.
That is to say, not much of a mini-nuke. More like mini-AoE, considering the recharge. 
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That's about it, my ss/fire which went for ZOMG recharge usually cap tickets before the first Rage Crash, Rage lasts 120 secs. That's why I don't think the nerf to ambush will affect him much, it takes him like 1.5 ambush to cap, now it'll be like, two? I'm not a frequent farmer either so I'm sure I'm not the fastest.|
Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
I have a lot of fun on my MA/Fire toon tricked out for tons of recharge. In my very brief experience of farming AE tickets, I was hitting my ticket max (on a 1500 max map) in 2 minutes (just as the 2nd set of +defense insperations wears off, so that's not an exagerated estimate). I really don't know what SS/FA brutes do in that scenario, but that felt very fast
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The nerf will affect the lowbie farming thingie - although capping tickets with a claws/damage aura on a level 1 farm is pretty fast, you depend on killing a lot more mobs since they're lowbies - it's fast because you one-shot them with Spin, my SS/Fire doesn't one-shot mobs but since they're 54s he has to kill far less of them to cap.
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I leveled Elec/SD and Fire/SD both to 50 because I couldn't make up my mind between them. I don't Farm or hunt AV's etc. 'cause it bores me to tears, so my experience is from team/TF general play with moderately priced builds softcapped to all positions. I finally retired the elec/sd and kept the fire; reason being while elec is awesome, it wasn't able to keep pumping out consistent AoE like fire can. Having super-awesome aoe attacks is cool, but if they're recharging and I'm stuck using plinky little elec attacks... I am so not happy. Fire is better for consistent gameplay.
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Originally Posted by Werner
I love my Fire/Shield, and have pretty good AoE, but Fire Sword Circle, Shield Charge and Fire Ball are probably not as good as it gets. Surely Electric/Shield has better AoE?
I haven't looked too hard, but I was hoping to find a point of comparison on YouTube. It certainly appears that my Fire/Shield kills +3x8 Council faster (40 seconds per spawn including travel time) than a random Electric/Shield kills +1x8 (?) Council (60 seconds per spawn including travel time). I do have the alpha slot level Shift (no other incarnate powers though). Who knows what sort of build a random Scrapper on YouTube is running, though, plus their mobs seemed scattered more than mine. For what it's worth: Fire/ShieldAnyone have a good example of good kill speed on Council with an Electric/Shield? A Spines/Fire? Other? Mind you, I have no idea if we're talking about AoE while leveling, AoE on SOs at 50, AoE fully IO'd and incarnated, or what. |
Which primary best suits this goal?