Suggestion: STOP ADDING AMBUSHES TO EVERY DAMN MISSION


Agent White

 

Posted

Going to have to agree here. My poor lowbie blaster was constantly running on empty through the First Ward missions. They started out fun enough, but after the ambushes just kept on coming, health and end plummeted, and my inspirations disappeared, there was little I could do but just die and regroup.

I forget which mission it was, but I had multiple groups of mobs on me all the time. I couldn't even get one group down before the next one was on me. With a squishie character who has few options slotting/power wise, maybe still running training IO's, with minimal DO's, this is simply stressful.

I don't mind dying so much for the most part, but I did notice something that'd I'd never run across in this game before. Ambush mobs camping the mission door waiting for me after I got back from the Hosp. This might have been a bug and I didn't take note of the mission name/s, but it was -not- something I was expecting and after having already face-planted due to too many mobs, it was in no way amusing or fun.

One of the missions that really made me want to hurl my keyboard was the new mission involving Col. Duray and the blasted constant ambush spawning of Sky Raider Engineers with their awesome little bubble generators. *Swish swish* (and watch the End bar drop) over and over... so not fun. (Goes hand in hand with that quest where you have to destroy the Dirge of Chaos demon, who spawns in many little to-hit sapping ghosty pals to play with you. /cry )


 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
That's precisely what the problem is. Ambushes, in and of themselves, are not a bad mechanic. They're as legitimate as patrols. However, they seem to be just about the only mechanic the developers consistently use in practically EVERY new mission they make, and not only are too many ambushes too hard to deal with, the system itself begins to drag when it's overused.
Totally agreed.
I loved ambushes like I love patrols, because everyone just standing there in small groups waiting for you to come and punch them always seemed stupid to me. But ambushes need to be used WHERE they make sense, and in a WAY that makes sense.
When I pull that one big lever that shuts down the villain's master device or activates the self destruct of the base, I can see hell breaking loose, tons of baddies rushing at me.
When I find that book in a pile of rubble far down in a cave and there is no good reason how anyone will know, not so much. Especially not again when I find the 2nd, 3rd, 4th book. And if the baddies don't have a story reason or explanation to suddenly pop up right next to me, please try to make sure they don't.
I really liked how things tried hard NOT to spawn in your face in CoX until a while ago.

That said, I wouldn't mind seeing ambushes that run to where you pulled that lever, maybe start looking for you from there, with a chance of NOT finding you when they don't see you now and then.


 

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Originally Posted by BlueRaptor View Post
That said, I wouldn't mind seeing ambushes that run to where you pulled that lever, maybe start looking for you from there, with a chance of NOT finding you when they don't see you now and then.
There are some like that in the game.

SOME home in on you. And *Some* go to where whatever the trigger was. (Stepping down a side corridor to watch an ambush run past was not unusual.)


 

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Originally Posted by Hercules View Post
Yeah, they've overdone it with the ambushes lately. The ones I hate/despise/loath are the cascading ambushes where you're continually hit for the duration of the mission. I can take it with a melee type, but playing with a squishy - it just doesnt work.
I was doing some First Ward content solo with a tank the other day and had to lead a host of characters to certain positions on the map. This was interesting enough except that the characters would engage enemies and because the constant spawn points were very close to the paths I needed to take it became very difficult to lead the characters away. Being a tank I could stand there forever (and it felt like I stood there forever) but my damage wasn't good enough to clear them before the next wave. Extremely annoying.


This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04

 

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I love the ambushes. All of them. A short time ago it seemed they were all done with them and every mission was routine. Bored me to death. I look at every one as a combat lesson in never letting your guard down. You should be expecting them around every corner by now. I hate it when "I" mess up and blow the ambush, not because the game threw out more then I could handle, but because I'm half asleep at the keyboard or distracted by real life. What ever the reason I learn from it and don't let it happen again. AE farms work the same way. People do the same one or two everytime they know what to expect and they come prepared.
My stables are full of Squishy's I usually run solo and I say, "BRING ON THE AMBUSHES!"


 

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Praetoria is level 50 content, scaled down badly.

The story is great. The mob strength and ambushes are not.


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GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Praetoria is level 50 content, scaled down badly.

The story is great. The mob strength and ambushes are not.
Erm, not really. I'd buy that they are level 25-30 content scaled down. Certainly as you apprach the end of Praetoria they are much easier to handle. But there's no way they are scaled down level 50 content, unless you're talking about lolCouncil.


 

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Originally Posted by BlueRaptor View Post
When I pull that one big lever that shuts down the villain's master device or activates the self destruct of the base, I can see hell breaking loose, tons of baddies rushing at me.
When I find that book in a pile of rubble far down in a cave and there is no good reason how anyone will know, not so much. Especially not again when I find the 2nd, 3rd, 4th book. And if the baddies don't have a story reason or explanation to suddenly pop up right next to me, please try to make sure they don't.
This reminds me of a few particularly inept L4D2 campaigns where completely bizarre things would spawn several waves of zombie hordes. See, the original had Zombie Horde events which Valve's developers set to trigger when the players had to make a lot of noise, such as opening an alarmed door, activating a car alarm or detonating loud explosives. However, many player-made campaigns made no such sense, and you'd "alert the horde" by silently pressing a button, breaking a small crate or opening a very regular door.

That's what ambushes in a lot of Praetorian content feel like. "Oh, no, I spoke with with a woman! This must have alerted the ghouls!"

I really liked how things tried hard NOT to spawn in your face in CoX until a while ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRaptor View Post
That said, I wouldn't mind seeing ambushes that run to where you pulled that lever, maybe start looking for you from there, with a chance of NOT finding you when they don't see you now and then.
That's about half-way between shoddy design and a genuine bug. Something at some point happened to cause NPC triggers to fire far too early. The result was that you'd often enter a mission and hear all dialogue from all critters that were tagged to have that. Normally, this is supposed to play when you approach said critter, but this would cause them all to play simultaneously.

In much the same way, the mission to save Ghost Widow from Sister Airlia (aside from being bugged to always spawn a 40+ Ballista in a 35+ arc) would spawn about four Longbow ambushes at the same time, all on top of you. Most of the time, I could burn through my inspiration tray and survive, but Ghost Widow cannot. Because when NPCs fight us, they're awesome. When they have to help us, they suck. I'm sure there's a trope about it, but I can't recall what it's called offhand.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Praetoria is level 50 content, scaled down badly.

The story is great. The mob strength and ambushes are not.
Different strokes. I like that the enemies fight back.


On the subject of ambushes: I'm further along in the First Ward story and have gotten to the part where you are fighting some sort of mind-crazy seers SPOILER ALERT. In addition to the ghouls, I really like that these enemies pick up the pace in their running, *especially* when they are ambushing you. See, the problem I always have with finding ambushes exciting is that they are so obviously tele-graphed and take so long to get to you that I don't actually feel like I'm being ambushed at all. Instead, I feel like my game decided to hit the pause button without me, and now I just have to wait for this high and mighty enemy group to get all their stuff together and come get pummeled by me before I can resume jumping from spawn point to spawn point. Hell, most of the time I don't even wait; I try to figure out where the ambush is by their moving speech bubble and meet them.

When the enemies move *quickly* however, and their spawn points are set relatively close to where the ambush triggers, the effect of actually being ambushed is a lot more authentic. Sure, they still like to announce their presence to the entire world in a decidedly un-ambush-y fashion, but they're biting at my face so quickly that I actually *feel* like they came from nowhere, and that now it's time to fight for my life.

So I don't think it's exactly a matter of ambushes being overused, I think it's a matter of ambushes being utilized poorly. They *can* be exciting, they just generally aren't.


 

Posted

Now, I can't put my finger on it, but over the years have we not complained about something or other that the devs have overused in the past? It always has seemed something that we would run into over and over and over again, yet a few months later we'd all be wondering "What happened to them?"

It's like with a friend of mine, who will latch onto a favorate word that he will overuse, thinking that he's clever for using it. For the longest time it was 'alacrity', and from time to time he'll still use 'penultimate'. He keeps on doing this because he thinks it makes him look smart and savy, when all it does is make him look silly for trying to do so. I keep trying to tell him "Look, I know who you're trying to impress here with that, but trust me, they arn't...and may even be laughing behind your back at that."

That's what's happening here, IMO. The devs are trying to find ways that are new and clever for us, but they are getting old very fast. I'm sure that in a few months we'll see a drop in the number of new missions that are ambush-crazy (but the old ones will still be around, which will become ghost towns, auto-dropped as quickly as possible by players) as the devs find some other way they think will keep our interest.


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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
There are some like that in the game.

SOME home in on you. And *Some* go to where whatever the trigger was. (Stepping down a side corridor to watch an ambush run past was not unusual.)
Neat.
My apologies to the game then.


 

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Originally Posted by Dave_67 View Post
I keep trying to tell him "Look, I know who you're trying to impress here with that, but trust me, they arn't...and may even be laughing behind your back at that."
And apparently, he keeps thinking - and rightly so - "Oh well, haters gonna hate."