A SR Scrapper's Quest to the Soft Cap
I am the 99%. Occupy the World.
Minister of Infinity's Secret Police, Official Mooch of dUmb and League, Official Purveyor of Free Straws, the Most Interesting Man in the World.
http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
If you can softcap your SR without using defense set bonuses, it means you can focus your slotting on other things, like Regen, recharge, and max HP.
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With IO sets on the other hand you can remove either maneuvre or CJ (depending on your play style) from your build (admitedly on defense powers alone there was 31 slots on my old build but they had 5 LoTG recharge and 4 red fortunes to get %5 recharges which makes a total of %57.5 recharge bonus) Thanks to new enhancement boosters however my build got a change now I only need weave from pool powers to softcap my toon with only 29 slots spend of defense powers only two more slot than SO's i free up two powers and got all of my recharge bonuses in addition to any other bonuses i got from IO's (each red fortune also gives %2 damage buff and i have two slots of LoTG on passives which gives %10 regen)
Its possible to make SR softcapped with SO's but other than being cheap, it doesn't have any other advantage.
Either I'm misunderstanding your post ... or perhaps you are reading a bit more into ClawsandEffect's post than I am. I don't think he is trying to say an SO build is in any way 'better' than an IO set build. Merely because you can soft cap so easily (such as in an SO only build) that in an IO set build it is possible to soft cap with few, if any, set bonuses aimed at +defense and therefore all set bonuses can be used for other things (such as +regen, +max health, +recharge, what have you) to otherwise improve the build. My own Claws/SR build being essentially just that ... I've only the two +3% defense uniques (Steadfast and Glad) the rest of her positional defense is entirely from her power choices no set bonuses involved. My main thrust for my build was for set bonuses all aimed at gaining more +regen, +max health and not +defense (no 6-slotted GSFC, ToD or Mako's for example). I could do that because I do not need to use sets to gain +defense which is essentially what you do if you are doing an SO build.
Am I correct in assuming that you get the extra defense from the Steadfast IO whether Tough is toggled on or not?
I only regret that I have but one life to waste playing computer games.
Live fast, die young... and leave a flesh-eating corpse!
Am I correct in assuming that you get the extra defense from the Steadfast IO whether Tough is toggled on or not?
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The Glad being a pvp IO is more like a purple IO set bonus ... it's in play all the time regardless again of whether Tough is active or available.
EDIT: A couple helpful links for sorting this sort of thing out:
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Exemplar...n_Enhancements
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Table_of_Special_IOs
Actually this is not true. Last time I tried to softcap SR with SO's alone it required weave, combat jump and maneuvre all at least 3 slotted with defense including all SR power being 3 slotted with defense SO's it makes a total of 27 slots put on nothing but defense no other bonuses.
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With generic IOs, the Steadfast, CJ, Weave and Maneuvers, you can softcap all positions with only 12 added slots, 22 total. I think that's pretty reasonable if you're on a tight budget. You could take every power from your primary, six-slot all the attacks plus one from an epic pool, and still have several slots left over.
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
I had always hated scrappers. I thought they were ridiculously over-powered. My first toon was, of course, a blaster. It became tiresome and tedious, and the disappointment was earth-shattering when my toon, Mr. Clarke, ended up face down after planning a fight for 5 minutes.
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The best comics are still 10�!
My City of Heroes Blog Freedom Feature Article: "Going Rageless?"
If you only read one guide this year, make it this one.
Super Reflexes: the Golden Fox of power sets!
WARNING: I bold names.
PB should have 2 recharge reductions in it so it is Perma. If a SR scrapper's toggles get knocked off, he goes down quick. I have Gaussian's Synchronized fire control on my Focus Chi (6-Slotted).
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Holds only drop toggles that affect foes, as in damage auras and such. The toggles from Reflexes won't drop when held or stunned. But this is beside the point.
With a few IO sets with recharge bonuses, a second slot in Practiced Brawler is a waste. I don't remember the actual number that PB needs to be perma, but it's low.
I won't be a part of your system!
With a few IO sets with recharge bonuses, a second slot in Practiced Brawler is a waste. I don't remember the actual number that PB needs to be perma, but it's low.
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With procs and set bonuses, it's possible to softcap an SR without investing any additional slots into Focused Fighting, Focused Senses, Agile, Weave etc. I wouldn't recommend it because the DDR would bite but I almost find it difficult not to hit 45% in 3 positions.
Holds only drop toggles that affect foes, as in damage auras and such. The toggles from Reflexes won't drop when held or stunned. But this is beside the point.
With a few IO sets with recharge bonuses, a second slot in Practiced Brawler is a waste. I don't remember the actual number that PB needs to be perma, but it's low. |
As for PB 2 SO's (or common IO's) are sufficient for perma-PB so you'd need about the equivalent amounts (33%+33%) globally to to make up for it. Which is why with 97.5% global recharge mine has only a single slot with a level 50 Endred enhancement. Thinking about it I probably don't even have to worry much until exemped below level 15 (which is to say just about never, even Posi has one at level 15 in part 1) when I would lose benefit of Quickness. I'd be sitting around 60% global recharge --> 40% from Purple sets plus Quickness (and at level 22 all my LotG +recharge would kick in as well putting me back at 97.5%). This is also for a scrapper ... Brutes don't get Quickness until level 35. Note also that because those are global bonuses from sets they are uneffected by exemplar scaling, which if you were just using common IO's or SO recharges in PB those would get scaled in value while exemped particularly to low levels.
The problem when you get mezzed isn't so much that the toggles turn off ... they will keep running while you are mezzed, it's that they become suppressed when you're mezzed and you will lose the +defense value they provide until your status state wears off. So in the case of my FF I will lose about 21% off my melee defense (plus Weave, CJ, and Maneuvers all also suppress). Worse in some ways I'll lose the DDR from all my toggles as well ... about 63% of my 95% or so, cascade failure of what my remaining +defense is becomes a real threat. On the other hand that's why I always carry 2 or 3 breakfree, pop one and problem solved as all my toggles immediately start functioning again if I do find myself mezzed.
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I won't be a part of your system!
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
I wasn't aware that the toggles were suppressed. That does make a difference. Although, I can't remember the last time I was mezzed under normal circumstances.
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With a clicky Mez protection I prefer some overlap, in case I'm attacking when it recharges. |
I wouldn't do it with SOs myself; I was just pointing out that it was possible.
With generic IOs, the Steadfast, CJ, Weave and Maneuvers, you can softcap all positions with only 12 added slots, 22 total. I think that's pretty reasonable if you're on a tight budget. You could take every power from your primary, six-slot all the attacks plus one from an epic pool, and still have several slots left over. |
So, the comment about soft-capping with SO's and you being a "sad panda" (WTF!?) because I used IO sets to hit the soft cap added exactly what to the discussion, other than trying to make me sound like a jackass? See?
Okay, so.... Look, fellas, egregious errors (you gotta be effing kidding me) aside, keep in mind that I don't have a PC, I have an iMac and do not have access to Mids. So, I worked out most of my Def Set bonuses on a newspaper at work on breaks. Pardon me if the way I journeyed to the soft cap wasn't the way you would have all chosen, but I got there nonetheless.
Kane Black has incredible survivability and with my Alpha Cardiac slotted, I rarely glance at endurance. I'm sure all of you can find flaws in what I achieved, but this is CoH, not CoP(erfection). So sue me.
So, my question about the def sets and slots I have chosen, is why don't I want the bonuses that the IO sets I have chosen provide? If I give up my 6 slot defenses and their associated IO sets, I lose considerable bonuses, just to receive bonuses in other areas. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
I would love to see your ideas on how I should have built/slotted my toon, but keep in mind that I don't have Mids. If you wouldn't mind typing it out, I would love to see your ideas.
Thanks,
Clarke
This comes down to largely how much overlap one is comfortable with. Sounds like you do as I do and click the power rather than put it on auto. I don't like it interrupting whatever I'm in the middle of doing to hit PB. I'll just wait till I'm moving to the next spawn or other more convenient moment. And as noted above usually the worst that happens if I delay too long is I get bounced around (probably making teammates check my build wondering if the idiot scrapper has his mez protection ).
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I think you're mixing me and Aneko up. I was the one who said that using reactives and kincombats makes me a sad panda. I said that because those sets are typically used for typed defense bonuses, not positional like SR uses. I certainly didn't mean to imply that using IO sets was a mistake, and if that's how I came across that was entirely my error in communication and I apologize. My own SR characters use IOs extensively, just not those particular sets.
That said, the fact that you planned you build without Mids is really quite the accomplishment and no joke; I would never have the patience to do that so hats off to you. I will happily send you a PM with a build using other sets, and yes I will ensure that you don't need Mids to see it
Sorry about the miscommunication, it's gotten both of us on edge and life's too short for that.
edit: here is my El Cheapo MA/SR build, from a character I no longer play. Cost was real low and the build treated me fine (I quit playing it because I can't stand the EC animation ). This build has overcapped defenses, 77.5% global recharge, net 3.73 end recovery, and can EC every ~5 seconds/DT every ~6 seconds. Lots of room for improvement but I was unwilling to throw money at a cahracter I didn't enjoy. The overcapped defenses are an artefact from when I didn't understand how DDR worked and thought that Cims would trash me; turns out that just doesn't happen with SR
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Violet Fluid: Level 50 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Martial Arts
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Medicine
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Storm Kick
- (A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
- (3) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance
- (3) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge
- (11) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
- (25) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (36) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (15) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (17) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (23) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (15) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (17) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (31) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage
- (5) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance
- (5) Touch of Death - Damage/Recharge
- (13) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (31) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (36) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)
- (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
- (7) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
- (7) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
- (46) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
- (46) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
- (46) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up
- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
- (9) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
- (9) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
- (13) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (31) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (37) Kinetic Crash - Recharge/Endurance
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (11) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
- (19) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
- (19) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
- (23) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (25) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (36) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Run Speed IO
- (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (39) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (39) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (39) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage
- (27) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Endurance
- (27) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Recharge
- (29) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Recharge
- (29) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (34) Kinetic Crash - Recharge/Endurance
- (A) Gift of the Ancients - Defense/Endurance
- (45) Gift of the Ancients - Defense
- (45) Gift of the Ancients - Run Speed +7.5%
- (50) Gift of the Ancients - Defense/Recharge
- (A) Gift of the Ancients - Run Speed +7.5%
- (40) Gift of the Ancients - Defense
- (43) Gift of the Ancients - Defense/Endurance
- (43) Gift of the Ancients - Defense/Recharge
- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
- (33) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
- (33) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
- (33) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (34) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (34) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (37) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (37) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (40) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Gift of the Ancients - Run Speed +7.5%
- (40) Gift of the Ancients - Defense
- (42) Gift of the Ancients - Defense/Endurance
- (43) Gift of the Ancients - Defense/Recharge
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (42) Recharge Reduction IO
- (42) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Empty
- (A) Doctored Wounds - Heal
- (48) Doctored Wounds - Recharge
- (48) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance
- (48) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
- (50) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
- (50) Interrupt Reduction IO
- (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
Level 2: Swift
- (A) Run Speed IO
- (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (45) Miracle - +Recovery
- (A) Jumping IO
- (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
- (21) Performance Shifter - EndMod
- (21) Endurance Modification IO
- (A) Empty
Level 1: Sprint
- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
- 8% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 8% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 8% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 8% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 8% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 8% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 8% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 8% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 6.13% Defense(Smashing)
- 6.13% Defense(Lethal)
- 5.81% Defense(Fire)
- 5.81% Defense(Cold)
- 6.13% Defense(Energy)
- 6.13% Defense(Negative)
- 3% Defense(Psionic)
- 9.25% Defense(Melee)
- 9.25% Defense(Ranged)
- 8.63% Defense(AoE)
- 5.4% Max End
- 4% Enhancement(Heal)
- 66% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 57.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 10% FlySpeed
- 140.6 HP (10.5%) HitPoints
- 10% JumpHeight
- 10% JumpSpeed
- MezResist(Held) 6.05%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 12.65%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
- 8.5% (0.14 End/sec) Recovery
- 50% (2.79 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 8.76% Resistance(Fire)
- 1.26% Resistance(Cold)
- 3.13% Resistance(Negative)
- 5% Resistance(Psionic)
- 32.5% RunSpeed
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
I just wanted to take a minute and thank all of you with constructive input. I greatly appreciate it.
Okay, dumb question time...
The base Defense Rate of all of /SR toggles is 13.88. If I slotted the 4 pieces of Red Fortune (50's of course) that modify defense on Focused Senses, are these defensive bonuses calculated individually against the 13.88% base rate?
If so, then it should modify the base defensive value of FS from 13.88 to 23.55. I'm working blind here, sorry if the math is way off. If I then added a fifth piece of Red Fortune to FS I receive a set bonus of 2.5% to Ranged Defense. Is this set bonus also figured against the base rate of 13.88%? Or is it added intuitively to the modified value of 23.55? Or...I dunno, maybe I'm really far off on the mechanics.
Okay, dumb question time...
The base Defense Rate of all of /SR toggles is 13.88. If I slotted the 4 pieces of Red Fortune (50's of course) that modify defense on Focused Senses, are these defensive bonuses calculated individually against the 13.88% base rate? If so, then it should modify the base defensive value of FS from 13.88 to 23.55. I'm working blind here, sorry if the math is way off. If I then added a fifth piece of Red Fortune to FS I receive a set bonus of 2.5% to Ranged Defense. Is this set bonus also figured against the base rate of 13.88%? Or is it added intuitively to the modified value of 23.55? Or...I dunno, maybe I'm really far off on the mechanics. |
Then the set bonuses are added directly to your actual defense number, that 21.45%. In this case that would add 2.5 to 21.45 to produce 23.95 defense.
If you're doing it in your head, not with Mids', sum up the defense from each enhanced power that grants defense, then add each relevant set bonus to that total. You'll need to do this separately for each position (melee, ranged, AoE).
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Thanks a ton, to you and everyone else.
I hit the cap and did it on a reasonable budget this time. I will post my specs soon... Now to watch some football!!!!
Actually this is not true. Last time I tried to softcap SR with SO's alone it required weave, combat jump and maneuvre all at least 3 slotted with defense including all SR power being 3 slotted with defense SO's it makes a total of 27 slots put on nothing but defense no other bonuses. This makes around 1/4th of actual slots. This also means although you can fit LoTG's in the build somewhere you can't get recharge bonuses from red fortunes.
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If your endurance is under control, you don't need more than 3 or 4 LotGs in your SR toggles. Anything more than that is wasted slotting.
So, take Weave and add 2 slots to it. Take Maneuvers and add 2 slots. Now, since you have 3-4 slots in your toggles instead of 6, you've saved 6-9 slots total.....and only put 4 slots in 2 extra powers, thus giving you a net savings of 2-5 slots to use somewhere else.
Softcapping without relying on defense bonuses from sets like Mako's Bite and Touch of Death actually SAVES you slots in the long run, even though it costs you a couple more picks. Since you're probablt going to take Tough anyway for added survivability and a place to put a STeadfast Res/Def, you already have that pool started. Maneuvers opens up Leadership, which lets you take Tactics for a place to slot Gaussian's for another 2.5% defense bonus to all positions.
Believe it or not, I know what I'm talking about here. If you can softcap an SR without relying on 6 slotting attack powers for defense bonuses, you can spend those slots on OTHER set bonuses, and your character will be stronger for it.
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Posting this here instead of making a new thread.
Yes its over the soft cap but not enough over it IMO I would like it to be 50 in Melee Rangeed and AOE. For the iTrials. I just don't know what else I can do to achieve that.
Also my MA is only level 30 and I still don't know what attacks I should keep and what attacks are completely superfluousness.
Feedback would be rocking awesome.
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I was not trying to imply that you implied that you disagreed, because the resulting implication would have implied that I take such implications too seriously.