Tells & Freedom: How Frees could use it without RMT hell
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2011-10-09 16:52 in Suggestions and Ideas
Yeah, free players should ABSOLUTELY be able to respond to tells.
This feature would greatly help those who use the "tell" feature to build teams.
I have no problems with your two idea. Or even another one some one suggested about allowing Free players to tell Helpers. I just figure the Devs have already thought of those ideas. I know they have heard your ideas, because they were mentioned in the Beta forums before I21 launched.
At this point, I figure either there are technical reasons they can't do those things, or it is something they are looking at for future implementation, or it is someplace in the pipeline already. And even if it is the last option, that could mean it would take up to a year before it gets to us.
Justice Blues, Tech/Tank, Inv/SS
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Fighting The Future Trilogy
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Originally Posted by Oneirohero
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Uhm just an FYI, the Friends channel already works that way server wide. Free players can talk to anyone on their /friends list as long as the people they are talking to have them on their /friends list as well.
That being said I have no objection if the devs could expand friend channel access to include global friends.
Several easy fixes that are in OTHER F2P games.
Name of player is in a different color/font. Quick visual you know that they are free. Extend this to the results in search.
Allow a 30 sec. window for a Free player to respond to a direct tell.
Free Chat channel; which works as following.
1) VIP have to choose to see it, so if they dont want to see it the VIPs are already opted out.
2) Timer: 2 minutes delay between messeges (10 messeges max in 1 hour)
This should be fine for posting lft lftf, or asking a general question.
3) 10 strikes you are out. If 10 different VIPs report a free account of spamming then its silenced. (or lower or higher number. IDC 10 was just a number)
4) Channel auto silenced in RMT zones (Market, AE, trainer, Stations.)
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I do not think "RMT" means what you think it means...
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Originally Posted by GPBunny
4) Channel auto silenced in RMT zones (Market, AE, trainer, Stations.)
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Friend channel, while an okay workaround, is not personal or private communication, tells are. Additionally you just said that in order for it to work, both parties must have each other on their friends list to work and if either of you switches to a different character you have to re-add each other over again.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
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Uhm just an FYI, the Friends channel already works that way server wide. Free players can talk to anyone on their /friends list as long as the people they are talking to have them on their /friends list as well. That being said I have no objection if the devs could expand friend channel access to include global friends. |
I would feel better if it's 'in the pipeline', because I do know that UI is apparently a big deal in Paragon Studios, which is why we have Pocket D's Null the Gull to provide us with some power-buff management options, because it was either an NPC or nothing at all. I would expect something like extra rules on how tells are dealt with to be a similar issue.
Even a non-obliged 'We've heard you' from a redname would be confidence boosting, even if said message had no inkling of consideration to actually put those ideas into effect. But no doubt they can't really say anything because if they even do make an honest post there'll be some guy yelling, "YOU HEARD IT HERE FOLKS!" and set off a rumour faster than a power without an animation-time.
Home server: Victory
Characters on: Victory & Virtue
My first 50(0)! 18/11/11
@Oneirohero
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Originally Posted by GPBunny
Free Chat channel; which works as following.
1) VIP have to choose to see it, so if they dont want to see it the VIPs are already opted out. |
Just want to point out that we can already opt out of listening to specific channels by editing our chat box. This is one of the first things I do on every character.
I have one tab set up to display what I feel are my most important communications channels.
My second tab has the channels that provide me with in game messages that I want to keep track of.
My third tab has the less important chat channels that I rarely pay attention to.
RMT = Real Money Transfer. You know the spammers that sit in Market and say for $$$$ you can get power leveled or billion inf.
They tend to hang in markets, ae, by trainers or by the trains... you know where people are in amass. since the local chat is short range.
What did you think RMT was?
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Odd definition of what personal and private means. The only people that can see a player on friends channel are the people that have them on their friends list, and they can't respond unless they are also on that players friends list. That's pretty personal and private. |
Originally Posted by Oneirohero
Friend channel, while an okay workaround, is not personal or private communication, tells are. Additionally you just said that in order for it to work, both parties must have each other on their friends list to work and if either of you switches to a different character you have to re-add each other over again.
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Furthermore expanding the friends channel to include global friends would eliminate the need to add individual characters to the friends list because global friends automatically puts you on each others global friends lists and that list spans every server.
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Very good of you. But the suggestion wasn't to opt OUT but to opt IN. And since the idea was a NEW free chat not what you already have. See this way VIPs DON'T have to do anything unless they wish to see it. Your way is that everyone that pays has to opt OUT and set things up.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Just want to point out that we can already opt out of listening to specific channels by editing our chat box. This is one of the first things I do on every character.
I have one tab set up to display what I feel are my most important communications channels. My second tab has the channels that provide me with in game messages that I want to keep track of. My third tab has the less important chat channels that I rarely pay attention to. |
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I understand what it is, but now in better context, understand what you meant by "RMT Zones." |
Originally Posted by GPBunny
RMT = Real Money Transfer. You know the spammers that sit in Market and say for $$$$ you can get power leveled or billion inf.
They tend to hang in markets, ae, by trainers or by the trains... you know where people are in amass. since the local chat is short range. What did you think RMT was? |
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Newsflash bunny. That isn't my suggestion. What you quoted and deliberately misinterpreted is what I do with the current system that the devs have had in the game for the past 8 years. We've always had the ability to opt out of channels|
Originally Posted by GPBunny
Very good of you. But the suggestion wasn't to opt OUT but to opt IN. And since the idea was a NEW free chat not what you already have. See this way VIPs DON'T have to do anything unless they wish to see it. Your way is that everyone that pays has to opt OUT and set things up.
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My suggestion is to expand the friends channel to include global friends that way F2Pers can talk to anyone that agreed to be friends with them regardless of what character and server they are on.
It's not private communication if you and your friends words can be heard by all each others friends, of which they wouldn't want their chat interface cluttered with random friends talking or discussing topics only the two in question should hear.
Tells are srs business and I know I'm not the only one who thinks so either. I'll say if something like AE can be unlocked in two stages (First access to play, then ability to create). Then tells would do well with a similar unlocking stage. (First access to reply, then to send tells)
Home server: Victory
Characters on: Victory & Virtue
My first 50(0)! 18/11/11
@Oneirohero
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Originally Posted by Obsidius
I do not think "RMT" means what you think it means...
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| I understand what it is, but now in better context, understand what you meant by "RMT Zones." |
An RMTer isn't going to be spamming in Crey's Folly, because there's no one there to hear them.
They tend to flock to the areas where they know people will be gathering, so they can spam in local chat and annoy as many people as possible at once.
Example: The most common place to find an RMT spammer was (or is) in Atlas Park near Ms. Liberty. Everyone in the zone will have to enter that general area at some point, so if they keep spamming in local they'll hit everyone eventually. Auction houses are another hotspot.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Back to the OP's idea:
I'd be happy with having #1 implemented. Being able to reply to tells would be a rather effective way to converse. Heck, it would alleviate frustration on both sides-- if I send tells to someone that can't reply back, how do *I* know that they're trying to chat to me and not ignoring me?
#2, I see as less urgent.
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F2P players not being able to respond to tells from VIPs is a major inconvenience for VIP players in my book. So I too heartily endorse the ability to respond.|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
I'd be happy with having #1 implemented. Being able to reply to tells would be a rather effective way to converse. Heck, it would alleviate frustration on both sides-- if I send tells to someone that can't reply back, how do *I* know that they're trying to chat to me and not ignoring me?
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However, I know that adding this ability would be non-trivial -- either a new command would have to be added with significant restrictions on its usability, or the system would have to remember people who sent F2P players a tell during the current session and then allow the F2P player to send tells to those people. Allowing only tells to the most recent person would be ugly and very inconvenient, because you can't control when you get tells, and you can get tells from multiple people, all of whom deserve responses.
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I wasn't talking about your suggestion but mine in the post above.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Newsflash bunny. That isn't my suggestion. What you quoted and deliberately misinterpreted is what I do with the current system that the devs have had in the game for the past 8 years. We've always had the ability to opt out of channels
My suggestion is to expand the friends channel to include global friends that way F2Pers can talk to anyone that agreed to be friends with them regardless of what character and server they are on. |
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Sorry but I must point out that any communication that is restricted is private regardless if it's between two people, ten people, or more. What makes it private is the fact that it is being restricted from the general public.|
Originally Posted by Oneirohero
It's not private communication if you and your friends words can be heard by all each others friends, of which they wouldn't want their chat interface cluttered with random friends talking or discussing topics only the two in question should hear.
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| Tells are srs business and I know I'm not the only one who thinks so either. |
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This one shines in my book, and should be applied outside of public channels as well. Simple and easy: |
Originally Posted by GPBunny
3) 10 strikes you are out. If 10 different VIPs report a free account of spamming then its silenced. (or lower or higher number. IDC 10 was just a number)
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If a free account get reported as a spammer by over 5-10 VIP's, it loses its premium-level chat privileges for the day.
If you wanted to make it more complex:
Free account starts with access to: Broadcast, Tells, Help, Local
1. If 2 spam reports = no Broadcast for the day
2. If 5 spam reports = no Tells for the day
3. If 20 spam reports = no Help for the day
4. If 50 spam reports = no Local for the day
And a weekly count:
If over 100 spam reports = no Broadcast/Tells/Help/Local chat next week
And a monthly count:
If over 200 spam reports = no Broadcast/Tells/Help/Local chat next month
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
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Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Sorry but I giving power to players to silence or whatever another person asking for it to be abused.
There are a few ways that this can be solved...
#1 When someone sends a tell it costs inf
#2 tells can only be sent/received by those in need of help/helpers
#3 Paid access either in game with inf OR from the market with real money
There is a final solution, but it would never happen... Follow the EvE Online model and have it so game time as well as inf real cash can be converted back and forth and traded. ie take their market away.
Can't freebies already /reply? They used to be able to. It uses a different function than "/t <name>, message" which is what freebies are blocked from. Did they take /reply away? 
I don't have any free accounts and don't have the time before going back to work to create a new one to test it.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Yes they have been able to reply to tells using the / command but I heard it wasn't intended for them to be able to do it so it's possible the devs have fixed what they see as a bug.
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
Can't freebies already /reply? They used to be able to. It uses a different function than "/t <name>, message" which is what freebies are blocked from. Did they take /reply away?
I don't have any free accounts and don't have the time before going back to work to create a new one to test it. |
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How can it be abused if it takes multiple VIP's to silence a free player?
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Originally Posted by Durakken
Sorry but I giving power to players to silence or whatever another person asking for it to be abused.
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
tried the /r with a free player yesterday, still working!
And yes, if people add someone to a global friends list, that should be reason enough to open the Tell feature to them.
Adding as a regular friend is easy, at least a global request has to be approved by both parties involved. That way free/premium/VIP can talk to their free/premium/VIP global friends.
Heads up Devs, NOT all Free players are total nitwits!
Sure we'll get the occasional Pl00b, AcPl00b, WooB and RMT'er, but the good new players far outweigh this suggestion i made.
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Hello folks, a short a sweet suggestion this time.
Apparently the reason free players can't use tells is because of RMT spammers and other nefarious deeds, that's cool and I respect that. However VIPs and Premiums can't immediately tell if someone is a free player and can be confusing. Additionally the small 'this player cannot respond to tells' message seems to have disappeared back when they were just trial accounts.
So how about this solution, which comes in two parts:
- Free-players can respond to tells: If a player with tell-permissions sends a message to a free player, the free player is given one chance to respond on a 1:1 basis. RMTers can't get their ads out this way unless an unfortunate player speaks to them, and then they may only do it once.
- Free-players may freely send tells to Global friends: You're not likely to befriend someone selling you powerlevelling services for $9.99. So why not let them be able to talk to you if they have your 'blessing', and even allow them to send tells to other free players who are on their friend list?
If both ideas were put in place, there would be no unsolicited spam via tells because only those with privileges (VIP or Premium) would be able to give free players the ability to send tells to them. And also allows players to freely and privately communicate with each other and to discourage the use of blind-invites (which happens when the polite system of tells is blocked!)Home server: Victory
Characters on: Victory & Virtue
My first 50(0)! 18/11/11
@Oneirohero