Best Buff's?

Far as buff's go, who is the best at it? empathy, force fields, thermal, cold. You tell me and why they are better than the other AT's out there far as defenders go.

define buffs a bit more:
Single Targhet Buffs or teambuffs

because Empathy has the best STbuff in the whole game with Adrenalin Boost and one of the best ST buffs with Fortitude

on the other hand FF cold Thermal or Sonic have great Teambuff potential
you forgot VEATS for thier double stacking leadership buffs paired with Mindlink for forts/widows which will give good defnumbers too

EDIT: May the battle begin

I'll say Empathy. Adrenaline Boost is too awesome. Not to mention Fort and auras.

Thermal defenders will be great aswell, if you're willing to wait a while longer.

Yeah, I dont see a whole lot of people making bubble defenders anymore, are they viewed as a weak buff now? Its been some years since I really played the game but bubbles I thought were very good. Has something changed or is there just better buffs/debuffs for defenders to play as rather than playing a force field defender?

I would like to play a bubble defender but if their not that good compared to emp. cold and thermal and ect. convince me otherwise I would like to hear why or why not bubbles are the way to go.

Kin/

Speed boost
ID
Transfusion
Transference
Fulcrum Shift

For mass Buffing...it's Kin/

How about the one that removes unnecessary apostrophes. I think that one is overpowered.

Serious Answer: Traps. It's got everything you need. Buffs and - more importantly - Debuffs.

I definitely think some parameters need to be established to best answer this.

Best buffs for a single target? As mentioned before that has to be Empathy, due to AB.

For a small team it may still be Empathy, at least a high-recharge Emp that can Fort everybody and have the RAs up frequently.

For a large team a mega recharge Emp can still be a great buffer. There are Emps that can Fort 7 teammates, though it takes a heckuva investment.

As far as FF compared to the other sets... a lot's been said over the years, passionately at times. FF brings tons of a defense, which is a very good thing. However, it really doesn't bring anything else (some kb, repel and a decent aoe knockdown attack) and those other things it brings don't "force multiply" team damage, whether through +dmg or -res. Further, at the high end a lot of builds (not all, by any means, not even a majority) have created a lot of +Def for themselves. Add to that the other sets that bring +Def (Traps, VEATS, Cold for example) and it's quite possible you'll find your +Def redundant.

My own experience, from leveling up a FF Def years ago, was that from level 12-40ish I was any team's "I win" button. Then I became the "who cares" button.

I remember a quote that goes something like this: "Empaths can turn several people into Jesus, one person into God, and everyone else into the twelve apostles."

That said, I'm thinking Time Manipulation will be a really good buffer. It can softcap and give a recharge boost to everyone including its user, can buff the damage+recharge+regen of a few people, and it has heals and debuffs on top of that.

And if you prefer offensive buffs over defensive ones, Kinetics all the way.

You know ...

It occurs to me that people with free accounts will LOVE FF.

No IOs. No Incarnate powers.

If there's an influx of freebie accounts, we'll be seeing fewer lowbie 'trollers and MMs. And, if you take those ATs out of the picture ... well, having a bubbler around will seem like a good idea.

Burning chick is right. Force field is very over powered currently. You can give everyone higher defense then most tanks sets have normally. The numbers probably wont be downgraded for quite some time....currently I'd say for buffs alone- Forcefield 1st then kinetics 2nd and Empathy 3rd.

Time manipulation seems to be taking one of the main spots whenever we get it though. Oh how interesting.

In short, FF has the best +def. The question is, how much do you really need? How much do you really need for end game stuff with over 50% of the player base playing level 50s? Cold more than fills in the need for +def and brings in multiple debuffs as well. The early game of CoH focused on power sets that did one thing, but it did it really well. CoV hit and suddenly the devs had to move past that and started to add in more balanced sets and more balanced ATs as well. Pretty much any new set these days will be more of a hybrid set than anything. Some of the single focused sets still win out. FF, IMO, lost out the most. FF still has uses(bad PuGs, Hardcore(deletion upon death)), but that's about it.

Note, I'm not saying the hybrid sets, or even CoV ATs are by default better. They just tend to do a number of things decently versus a few things the best.

While I think it may have been close before, the changes to some of the ST buffs to affect people in a general area around the target push Kinetics over the top.

There is going to be at least some bias in my looks at the two sets, but bare with me. I am only going to compare what I think are the two best more-or-less pure buffing sets, Kinetics and Empathy.

Adrenaline Boost is the single baddest ST buff in the land, no question, and Empathy as a set is pretty badA at buffing in general, but with Speed Boost providing half of the recharge buff of AB permanently, Transfusion, Increase Density and Transference working on green, blue and status bars (the Trans powers do require a target, but they also debuff that target), Kin's average level of buff per teammate is higher. To be fair, Regen and Recovery Auras are awesome, and specifically built for it, you can get to a pretty good uptime.

500/
(1[base]+1.25[Slotting + Spiritual Alpha]+.7[Hasten]+1.15[100% Global Recharge from IO slotting without going Super Purple or destroying my Ice Blasting for it]) equals about 120s, so 75% uptime.

The Transes have pretty good frequency without needing to dedicate for it if one chooses not to.

Empathy has Resurrect, Fortitude and the straight Heal powers, Kinetics has Fulcrum Shift. I can see the appeal Empathy has (I have an IO'ed Empathy Defender and he kicks tail), and it is probably closer to Cleric sets of other games, but the power to drive your entire team to the game's damage cap (or close) in a decently sized spawn... it is just something else.

Oh, and the movement buffs from Speed Boost and Inertial Reduction.

My Emp/Ice/Mace Defender (Softcap lets me go leaner than normal on breakfrees without Clarion) and my Fire/Emp/Fire Controller rock, but my Kin/Dark/Mace Defender and Fire/Kin/Earth Controller win the day for me.

Edited to add: There are some compelling arguments for the ease versus power of FF. Never thought of it that way. I do not mind being ridiculously active in providing mitigation, but for people who prefer to get their buffing out of the way early, FF and Emp are great.

In a duo, an emp is probably the best support. He can make one person literally invincible with amazing buffs and timely healing. But if that person is already invincible, an emp won't do as much as a kin would.

As far as pure offense goes, nothing beats a kin. The ability to keep an entire team at the damage cap and speed boosted for an entire mission just can't be beat by anything else.

If you're making a team of random AT's, and you only get to have one buff/debuff set on the whole team, I'm pretty sure most people would pick kin......unless it's a weak team that needs a lot of support just to stay alive. But these days those are rare, and the biggest value comes from those who can help the team steamroll faster.

Emp for single targets.

Time for medium to large teams (being able to basically power boost heal over half a team, plus provide +recharge, +recovery, and +def to everyone will be very nice)

FF if all you need is defense

For the soloist, defender Traps has a version of Dispersion Bubble that, over time, costs less endurance to run AND has higher base def. So, outside of PFF, bubblers can't even lay claim to having the best +def self buff available in a defender primary.


Is that true?

To respond to the statement above, I just wanted to start this thread to read people's input on the defender power-set's to learn how things have changed over the years that I was out. I want to know what people think about thermal, cold, empathy, kinetics, etc. Just learning about the defender powersets and what not, and yes the tanker's as well for defense cause willpower and shield are all new to me, and wanting to learn how things have changed when I made that thread.

Playing as a bubbler is fun to me, I just want to know why I dont see many bubbler "Defenders" anymore, I usually see more bubblers as a secondary on controllers or MM's it seems, but not as a defender. Didn't know if anything changed over the years when I was out. Didn't know if bubbles got nerfed or something.

What would blend well with a secondary to bubbles?

I'd rather have a Kin on my team over an Empath.

I play two defender bubblers, I think the best pairing is sonic blast. I also play a controller bubbler, and a Mastermind bubbler. No, it is NOT true about FF having less self-defense, if you remember to click Personal Forcefield when it gets really hairy.

Kinetics vs. Empathy: You can strip down your comparison of only buffs to empathy buffs, it is narrow-minded to do so since many of the buff activations are indeed also formidable debuffs. Damage debuff, endurance drain, recharge and speed debuffs can and do provide survivability to solo and teamed kinetics. Empaths cannot fort themselves, cannot increase their own speed. Empaths also have no -regen in their primary. Adrenalin Boost IS the best single target buff, but fulcrum shift is a damage capper for the team, along with a hefty debuff.

Some notes from test server:

A lot of Time powers are lookalikes to famous great buffs and debuffs existing in other sets. It also features a combo system that makes its buffs and debuffs more effective on certain targets. This makes Time look awesome on paper: 1/2 empathy plus 1/2 rad plus 1/2 storm plus critical heals and debuffs on demand equals godly.

In practice, the Time version of these powers often have double the recharges of their lookalikes in other sets, and/or greatly reduced effectiveness. Also, the extra numbers added by its combo system are small. 1/10 empathy plus 1/10 rad plus 1/10 storm plus better heals on 1 teammate at a time and marginally better debuffs on 1 enemy at a time equals meh. Conventional wisdom on the test server is that Time is okay for soloing, though it needs changes if it's going to be on the same level, soloing or teaming, as the other debuff sets.

Also, anyone who gets Grav/Time to level 50 without powerleveling, I will buy you a beer if you're ever in town. And then have you committed. Have a nice day.