Best Buff's?


Amy_Amp

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
Force Bubble / Hurricane spammers are very much the same people as the Must Herd tankers they mock ...
Stop right there. I did NOT say I spam Force Bubble. I did not say I spam hurricane. I said it is used in certain situations. I said I turn it on and I turn it off. Don't catastrophize using repel/kb powers with your elitist polarization of the topic. It isn't binary. Because I have Force Bubble does NOT mean I use it all the time.


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BurningChick View Post
Ahhhhh ...

You can't attack my argument, so you attack me instead.

Nice
First of all, you are playing devil's advocate.

Second of all I am replying to your misstatement:

Quote:
Those sweet spots for FB in tight corners just don't happen all that often. And, over the course of a mission, will result in ... well, not much overall protection.
If you don't look for opportunities, they will never happen. That is lack of imagination.


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psylenz View Post
If you don't look for opportunities, they will never happen. That is lack of imagination.
Nope -- I spent the first few weeks of I5 trying to creatively use FF's Final Three. Hovered over mobs to minimize KB. Practiced playing billiards with Force Bolt. Tried, as Statesman once suggested, to use Repulsion Bomb (the ally-targetted version) to save teammates from unwanted melee attention. Used Repulsion Field more effectively than Repulsion Bomb to save teammates from melee. Pulsed Force Bubble to push mobs into debuffs. Ran missions with FB always on. Used it selectively to clump mobs in convenient geometry. Tried to track the difference in mitigation before and after FB got a KB component (minimal -- on solo spawns, I'd see something get KBed once every 3 or 4 spawns). You name it. I'm neither stupid nor all that lazy.
What I will say is ...

Maneuvers is more effective at reducing incoming damage on one's teammates than Force Bubble, Repulsion Field, Detention Field, and Repulsion Bomb combined through over 99% of the game's content. FF's design is fundamentally, if not fatally, flawed.

Keeping mobs at range for the ghetto damage debuff of 20ish % (30 if you have the end to consistently bounce mobs with Repulsion Field) isn't good enough to deal with the hassles inherent with KB and 50' worth of repel. Especially when you consider that a passive, pool toggle /halves/ incoming damage for your teammates.

That said, I'm not saying that Force Bubble isn't fun -- it's one of the game's coolest powers. It's just not one of the game's most useful. And if you want use KB and repel? I'm not going to stop you. And, frankly, I won't ***** about it in-game, either. You pay your $15, just like me. I might part ways with you earlier than otherwise, but you know that some players will do that anyway.

As for the comparison between Force Bubble and Hurricane? At least Hurricane has a heavy -ToHit debuff to go along with the repel. All FB has is a token KB component that, in my experience, fires too irregularly to be of much use.


 

Posted

That's fair enough. I can't stand repulsion myself for the end drain, although I understand it did get a buff to its end cost. Repulsion field is 99.9% worthless while running force bubble. How many upper tier powers of any other set cancel each other out?

I just shudder when words like always and never are bandied about regarding certain powers, which is not what you have said. I don't think you are stupid or lazy by any stretch. It is being reflected in real-life when decisions by leaders are ALL or NOTHING - another matter for another day.

To emphasize what Nihilii said: the team should adapt to each other and not 'always' to one pattern or 'never' to another. The developers should have instituted an in-game voice communication package, just so everyone in team or league can hear "in place, please" or "taking them to the wall". Who knows, maybe with the influx of Free 2 Play players, we will see some exotic tactics that work as well as fail.

Edit: Devil's advocate again - do bubblers skip maneuvers?


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

 

Posted

A couple more things, then ...

If there's an influx of new players, I will guarantee that they won't be looking for creative uses of Force Bubble -- they'll be asking how to max out healing. It's gonna' be tank'n'spank.

If teams started requiring voice chat, I'd quit -- hate it, hate it, hate it.

I rarely see FF defenders, so no idea how many take maneuvers or not. But ... it's a shame if they don't.

Repulsion Field's buff, IIRC, reduced the cost of running the toggle, not the end cost of hitting a mob. FWIW, not even Vig reduces THAT cost.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BurningChick View Post
A couple more things, then ...

If there's an influx of new players, I will guarantee that they won't be looking for creative uses of Force Bubble -- they'll be asking how to max out healing. It's gonna' be tank'n'spank.
...

That's one approach. I hope some new players have open minds to innovation - empaths and tanks be damned. At levels 1-30 forcefields trump any healer set.


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

 

Posted

Depend on what team size we're talking about. Empathy excels at small teams (4 or less) but really isn't very good on larger groups(5 or more) like Thermal is.

That said for mitigation...

Teams size =< 4:
1. Empathy
2. Kin
3. Cold
4. FF
5. Thermal
6. Sonic

Teams size >= 5:
1. Cold
2. FF
3. Thermal
4. Kin
5. Sonic
6. Empathy

excluded Dark Miasma, Storm Summoning, and Rad simply because they are so very middle ground all around.

Play what you think is fun though in the end.

EDIT: Oh and obligatory Cold >FF. You know to stay on topic apparently.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psylenz View Post
Repulsion field is 99.9% worthless while running force bubble. How many upper tier powers of any other set cancel each other out?
Frozen Aura and Moment of Glory pre-2008 come to mind, but look what happened to those. (Except for /Ice blasters. Lolblasters.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski View Post
excluded Dark Miasma, Storm Summoning, and Rad simply because HTML lists cannot contain the awesomeness
Fixt.

Also, this thread makes Trick Arrow sad and it needs a hug.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski View Post
Depend on what team size we're talking about. Empathy excels at small teams (4 or less) but really isn't very good on larger groups(5 or more) like Thermal is.

That said for mitigation...
First off, welcome back!

Now, I can't really agree with placing Empathy that low for mitigation. On large teams, Empaths with a recharge build can keep Fortitude on 6-7 people at once. On leagues they have RA's and Healing Aura, and their other tools remain viable in those split-off situations, and for when someone gets spiked by an AV.

Empathy is a mitigation focused set, so if you're placing it that low on a mitigation list then something's wrong.


Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
First off, welcome back!

Now, I can't really agree with placing Empathy that low for mitigation. On large teams, Empaths with a recharge build can keep Fortitude on 6-7 people at once. On leagues they have RA's and Healing Aura, and their other tools remain viable in those split-off situations, and for when someone gets spiked by an AV.

Empathy is a mitigation focused set, so if you're placing it that low on a mitigation list then something's wrong.
You're not going to be keeping fort on that many with just SOs, best you can hope for is 4 at most. Even then the focus on empathy built around supporting individuals, you're not going to be effectively keep an 8 man team alive without additional tank/support mitigation. Thermal doesn't have that problem because its shields scale to any team size, which makes it easier to heal on an 8 man team than it would on an empath. Which is the point, empathy is a great set but it doesn't scale well with larger team sizes as other sets.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski View Post
You're not going to be keeping fort on that many with just SOs, best you can hope for is 4 at most.
Well, leaving IO's out of the picture isn't really fair to Empathy.

Quote:
Even then the focus on empathy built around supporting individuals, you're not going to be effectively keep an 8 man team alive without additional tank/support mitigation. Thermal doesn't have that problem because its shields scale to any team size, which makes it easier to heal on an 8 man team than it would on an empath. Which is the point, empathy is a great set but it doesn't scale well with larger team sizes as other sets.
Let's assume an 8 man team, with both Empathy and Thermal on +3 SO's.

-Thermal Shields will give +31.5% resistance against everything but Psi, Toxic, Fire(which is double), and Cold(which is half), to 7 people.

-Fortitude will give +23.6% defense against everything to 4 people.

Due to the fact that defense reduces incoming damage by twice as much as resistance does(Of course, depending on the team composition YMMV), and that it reduces the chance of being hit by debuffs, I'd say Fortitude and Thermal shields are quite even at the SO level on a full team. With wise use of Fortitude I'd say it's better.

Then you add the other buffs Empathy offers and it wins over Thermal for mitigation by quite a large margin.


Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

Which is the best buffing set?

Depends.. On what your team size and make-up is, and what you'll be facing. And if you're solo or not (which I guess is just restating 'what is your team size').

But, if you forced me to answer, I guess I'd say Empathy, if you could healing as a buff. If so, it's the only 'Buff (tm)' set. ALL of empathy is a Buff. No utility powers, no debuffs, nothing but buffs. All other def sets have some powers that that do other things. So to to even consider other sets without considering the other things they bring to the table isn't a comparison that is really worth much, in my opinion.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
Well, leaving IO's out of the picture isn't really fair to Empathy.
Excluding IOs in any argument about sets is totally fair since they only balance sets around SOs.



Quote:
Let's assume an 8 man team, with both Empathy and Thermal on +3 SO's.

-Thermal Shields will give +31.5% resistance against everything but Psi, Toxic, Fire(which is double), and Cold(which is half), to 7 people.

-Fortitude will give +23.6% defense against everything to 4 people.

Due to the fact that defense reduces incoming damage by twice as much as resistance does(Of course, depending on the team composition YMMV), and that it reduces the chance of being hit by debuffs, I'd say Fortitude and Thermal shields are quite even at the SO level on a full team. With wise use of Fortitude I'd say it's better.

Then you add the other buffs Empathy offers and it wins over Thermal for mitigation by quite a large margin.
Funny how you are ignoring the other 3 teammates that going entirely unprotected by the empath, but are protected by the Thermal. Empathy is less effective once you go past that 5 player team size, a fact that is blatantly obvious on 16+ man Trials. Also resistance yields itself more suitable for a healing set since damage doesn't nearly spike as hard when even +Def fails, saying Def is doubly effective shows a gross lack of understanding of how Thermal works.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski View Post
Funny how you are ignoring the other 3 teammates that going entirely unprotected by the empath, but are protected by the Thermal.
I didn't, I listed it. Fortitude being a more powerful protective buff simply makes up for it.

Quote:
Empathy is less effective once you go past that 5 player team size, a fact that is blatantly obvious on 16+ man Trials.
It does get less effective, but it's not nearly as dramatic as you make it out to be, especially on an 8-man team.

Quote:
Also resistance yields itself more suitable for a healing set since damage doesn't nearly spike as hard when even +Def fails, saying Def is doubly effective shows a gross lack of understanding of how Thermal works.
Defense is doubly effective because of how the defense mechanics work. Since enemies start off with a 50% chance to hit, any percentage you get from defense buffs up to the softcap will reduce damage taken by twice of what a resistance buff percentage would.

Resistance might let you deal with spikes more effectively, but defense lets you deal with less spikes. Assuming resistance gets double values, neither has a superior synergy with heals.


Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

I think Sonic has some of the best buffs. Defense is a lot easier to come by than resistance, and Sonic gives out 35% extra resistance to almost everything before slotting, and to the entire team (or as much of it as will fit in the dispersion bubble, anyway) without any need for recharge bonuses. On top of that, it's giving out the most critical status protections to everyone in the dispersion field too... and is if that wasn't enough, you can anchor on a team-mate a -30% damage resistance aura with a 15 radius. That's just brutal, and it never expires. It can do the single target mez protection boosts, and while it's not something you're going to typically desire, it can anchor a knockback aura on a team-mate should the need arise, which is a weird and unusual buffing capability.

Sonic pays for it in other ways, but it's really got a strong set of slightly unusual buffs.


 

Posted

The best buffer is the one you need at the time. Kind of a loaded answer but that's really how it boils down in this game.

Kinetics is a very good buff set unless there are three of them. And then it might still be a very good one if all of them are decide to split off into separate groups.

Force Field is kind of lackluster in normal high level content but IMO for incarnate trials or exemping it is the one set I'd give 5 stars to after the AoE shield change. I've been hard on the set recently, but the defense it gives to say, a Lambda team, is very noticeable and perfect for that situation (including endurance drain resistance). Hands down when I am playing any of my Dominators it is the FF'er with Power Boost who completely turns my survivability into an assured thing.

Thermal, IMO, brings the most to a Keyes trial.

Time has some of the best personal buffs in the game and is very formidable as well.


 

Posted

I can't speak for time with experience, but it appears to be mixed buff and debuff, and all the good stuff stacks with teammates buffing. It looks like it will be a fun ride. I did get to test out lowbie land with time juncture and it was amazing on my lowbie Time M/Rad defender.


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.