Revamped Knife Melee Suggestion

If you saw my post a few months back, I made a suggestion for a very basic Knife Melee set. I've worked on it a little, but I've only done a Scrapper version, so here it is. Keep in mind, I have no idea how the math works for the game, so all of the these were done in my head.

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Combat Knife
Whereas most heroes would rather carry a Broadsword or a Katana, you find your skills in a Combat Knife. You may not do amazing damage at first, but Combat Knife has access to
Poison to increase its effectiveness.

|Slice| Melee range Single target minor lethal damage
Makes a quick Slice at your target. This attack has a fast recharge.
Recharge: Very fast

Damage at level 1, unenhanced: 6ish. Recharge: 1s

|Lethal Stab| Single target moderate lethal damage, +Special
Your cunning allows you to pinpoint your target's weakpoint and deliver a Lethal Stab. A successful hit will leave your target vulnerable, granting you
a bonus to your Critical Hit chance for a small amount of time.
Recharge: Fast

Damage at level 1, unenhanced: 12. Crit chance bonus: +3% Recharge: 2.20s

|Lightning Stab| Melee cone minor lethal damage, moderate DoT(lethal), foe -def(all)
Mastery of your knife allows you to strike the enemies in front of you with blinding speed, effectively lowering
their defense to all damage. All foes are left with many wounds, causing them to bleed, dealing moderate lethal damage over time.
Recharge: Moderate

Damage at level 1, unenhanced: I was thinking 10, and the DoT bumping that up to about 15. Defense debuff: 5%
Recharge: 5s

|Apply Poison| Self +Special
You tip your Combat Knife with a special blend of poison only known to you. While Apply Poison is active, all Combat Knife
attacks will do an additional minor Toxic DoT and lower your target's resistance to all damage by a small amount. Recharge: Slow

This would work like Fiery Embrace, but not as intense. Adds just a small toxic DoT to attacks and a hard -5% resistance debuff
to all attacks which would be stackable and last about 5 seconds per application. Duration: 15s Recharge: 1 min 30s


|Throw Knife| Medium range Single target moderate lethal damage, moderate DoT(toxic), -def(all), +Special
Throws a single poison-tipped knife at your target, dealing minor damage. Pinpoint accuracy lowers the target's defense. If Apply
Poison is active, Throw Knife will also add a speed debuff. Recharge: Slow

Damage at level 1, unenhanced: Including the DoT, about 23. Defense Debuff (lethal): 10%
Speed Debuff: Don't know how to calculate these, but I wanna say "no worse than Quills". Recharge: 5s

|Confront| Ranged, Foe Taunt
Challenges a foe to attack you. Useful to pull a villain off an ally who finds themselves in over their head.
A To Hit check required to Taunt enemy players, but is not needed against critter targets. Recharge: Fast

|Blade Dance| Single Target moderate DoT(lethal), -def(all) Self +Special
Your agility allows you to perform a Blade Dance with your knife, greatly wounding your target and lowering their defense
to all damage. Blade Dance also leaves you in a perfect form, raising the Critical Hit chance of your next attack. Recharge: Moderate

Damage at level 1, unenhanced: 15 Defense debuff (all): 5% Bonus Crit Chance: 10% (for the next attack)
Recharge: 10s

|Increased Cunning| PBAoE -def(all), Self +to hit
Your Increased Cunning allows you to pinpoint your enemies' strengths and weaknesses, increasing your accuracy and lowering the defense to all
damage of everyone around you for a short period of time. Recharge: Very Long

Defense debuff (All): 15% To Hit Buff: 10% Recharge: 1 min 30s

|Cutthroat| Self Teleport, Single Target High Lethal damage, foe -def(all)
Focuses all of your skill and speed into a very lethal manuever, rushing into an area undetected, cutting your target in several vital areas, dealing High Lethal damage and greatly lowering
their defense to all attacks. Recharge: Long

Damage at level 1, unenhanced: 20 Defense Debuff(all): 10% Recharge: 1 min

EDIT: Updated the set to make it more unique. Added Apply Poisons, bumped damage just a bit, and made Cutthroat a very unique "Alpha" power.

Just curious, doesn't Dual Blades work for Knife Melee?

Cool idea, but now I am emotionally addicted to the Knife/Sword & Pistol concept!

I don't like it on several principals:

-It's just a knife. Why would it do -res while Katana, BS or even Claws doesn't. That aspect of the set doesn't make sense to me.

-A teleporting attack? Really? Almost seems like that's added in just to make it different not to mention rushing in with a knife isn't the best use of it. A placate/hidden stab would be far more appropriate.

-Knives aren't very showy. In fact, that's how they're supposed to be. You'd be looking at a set that isn't going to appeal to many based on look and yet conceptually, it shouldn't be more effective than an actual sword in combat...so the set would look plain and it wouldn't appeal to power-gamers.

All in all, I'm not dissing a knife set. One of my main villains is a knife 'thrower' and this set may fit him better. But I'd prefer sets I can't already kinda-duplicate. Spines works as a knife throw/stab set too (if a heck of a lot slower) and be more effective at the same time.

Here's a thought experiment for you, folks: Look through the existing sets in the game and try to think of a single one that has a bladed weapon held in an reverse grip in the hand. Let me know if you find any, because I can't think of a single one. I thought Assassin's Blade might have been that, but I'm pretty sure it's still held proper in the left hand.

Personally, I've always been a fan of single knife melee with combat knife held in reverse grip. I don't know if it's the Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones game that did this to me or what, but I simply love the concept as a general thing. Honestly, I don't actually like the set mechanics presented all that much, but I LOOOVE the idea behind them. Neither Dual Blades nor Broadsword nor Katana works for Knife Melee. They're all long weapons, whereas knives are not. Oh, sure, you could use small knives for Dual Blades, but aside from "knives" being plural, the set still works like you're using long blades and it still uses a forward grip.

To my eyes, the graphics alone would sell this set.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I think there is room for it to be done well, I also think that it would be fairly easy to distinguish the set. Think lots of nimble, fluid single knife cuts and actions. We are talking mobile, and yes flashy, knife slicing action. Though you'd have the option to have the non-flashy dry version. Personally I'd see more than 1 attack in the set hitting multiple times for multiple ticks of damage and I think bleeding would be thematically appropriate DOT damage for specific attacks as well. As 2 powers within the set I of course foresee a knife throw, but I think cone or PBAOE knife throwing flurry is not out of the question.

However I believe something like this would be far below other sets priority wise for them simply because other sets would appeal to a wider audience.

*Surfaces many hours later*

DAMNIT, SAM! Don't link me to TvTropes!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I think the fact that the set has -resist in it, to not be a real problem, Leo.

Really, look at Street Justice. Has an attack with -Resist. Yet Martial Arts and Super Strength don't. What makes Street Justice's hitting do -Resists compared to a well trained Martial Artist who would likely learn pressure points over a bar room brawler?

Why can BRaodsword and Katana users Parry, and not a Claws or Dual Blade user, when you can in fact parry with such weapons.

Now you're talkin.

That concept is intruiging, unique and usable for different concepts over claws or another bladed set...Something like Tipped Knife, with the concept of using foe specific toxins applied to the weapon.

You could even give it a swap ammo-esque gimmick in that it has 2 (or three) of these BU powers but using one makes the others expire and start recharging (so you could ever only use one). One could be 'Acid Tipped' that eats a foes armor (-res/-def), 'Poison Tipped' that swaps part of your lethal dmg for toxic, debuffs regen and a chance of toxic DoT. Maybe these powers can have a longer duration (15-20sec) but a smaller buff (30-40% dmg) to go along with their effects.

That's something different at least...

I want a Knife Manipulation/Assault set so damn bad. Gun/Bow + Knife = a Blaster concept I'd want to play.

Different poisons would be nice but a word of caution on that. Poison, though thematically appropriate for knives, would hurt as many concepts as it helps .

I think a knife set would be more focused on fast ST attacks. Knives really don't have enough range to justify all of those AoEs. Also, I think it really makes much more sense as a stalker set instead of a scrapper one.

I do like the crit bonuses though. I think it's an idea that would go quite well with this concept.