Accuracy bonus vs. damage bonus.


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Posted

So Controllers get a damage bonus when the enemy is being held. Why a damage bonus when an accuracy bonus would be much more realistic and useful. What good is a damage bonus when you continually miss your target? Please don't tell me to put accuracy enhancements on the powers because I have some with 3 accuracy enhancements and they miss quite a bit too. If you put your enemy to sleep or immobilize him/her in any way, that's not going to affect their durability but it will make him/her much easier to hit since they can't dodge, block or counter in any way. Just my humble opinion.


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Posted

Actually, I think all mezzed enemies should suffer from -defense.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by eth_Nargy View Post
Actually, I think all mezzed enemies should suffer from -defense.
Even at the lower levels, I have never ever missed enough to warrant more than 2 Accuracy SOs in a power. It sounds more to me like the guy has no clue what he's doing or something.


@ Dr Gemini

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Posted

Hell, he could be mind control and fighting +3 carnies. That would cause some missing. How about some constructive feedback. Also, saying he needs to get to 50 and slot an incarnate power is'nt much help right NOW is it? If every build had acc issues before 50, the game wouldnt be much fun. Obviously, we dont have acc issues with decent slotting.
Still, you are the one who sounds like the troll here Gem.


 

Posted

In case HDR2nd doesn't know - no matter how much accuracy you have your chance to hit an enemy caps at 95%, so you always have a slight chance to miss.

Since most players slot enough accuracy to hit this cap, the extra accuracy you're suggesting would have literally no effect.

Controller attacks like the single target hold and immobilise typically have a built in 20% accuracy bonus, so with 3 SO's you should have an accuracy of 1.2 * 2 = 2.4 Multiply this by your base chance to hit of 75% and you have a chance to hit of 180%, well over the cap.
Even with Dual Origin enhancements in your teens you'd be hitting the cap.
No enhancements at all would give you a 90% chance to hit.

It sounds like you're missing more often though. What level are you and who were you fighting? Some enemies have -To Hit debuffs, like Circle of Thorns ghosts, which can stack up very quickly.
Some of the Banished Pantheon masks combine dark attacks that do -To hit with defence, which makes them very hard to hit. Fortunately they're rare, and we have yellow inspirations.


 

Posted

The game at present is not coded for such complexities (at least not that I know of). For example, take the defense set super reflexes. It gives +def for basically being hard to hit. Now take energy aura; shields that make a person harder to hit by deflection. So why is it that a hold on either one has the same effect?

Clearly, the hold should make the super reflexes player easier to hit since his means of defense (evasion) is reduced. Energy aura, however, does not suffer from such short comings. A deflective field should still be in place right?

So, I guess I halfway agree. A hold, even an immobilize, should hamper defenses that require some sort of elusiveness, dodge ability or whatever. However, given the damage the controllers put out, I would surely miss the +damage.

BTW, controllers don't generally have problems with hitting things. In fact, most arc-types don't have problems hitting things in general. So, what was your opponent? Also, what is the nature of the accuracy enhancements and what level? Generally speaking, by SO level (22), three slotted SO's is enough for anything. If not, build for more global accuracy, pick up the global acc proc. Get tactics, which no controller should be without really.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDR2nd View Post
So Controllers get a damage bonus when the enemy is being held. Why a damage bonus when an accuracy bonus would be much more realistic and useful. What good is a damage bonus when you continually miss your target? Please don't tell me to put accuracy enhancements on the powers because I have some with 3 accuracy enhancements and they miss quite a bit too. If you put your enemy to sleep or immobilize him/her in any way, that's not going to affect their durability but it will make him/her much easier to hit since they can't dodge, block or counter in any way. Just my humble opinion.
Back in the days before Containment, Controllers were horribly slow to solo, and many Controllers didn't ever solo until they got their pets. The damage that most Controllers did was pitiful. Containment fixed this and allowed Controllers to do a somewhat decent amount of damage. That's why Containment was added.

As others have pointed out, Accuracy has an absolute cap of 95%, so all that extra accuracy is mostly wasted.


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Posted

The thing is, it's not a damage bonus. It's 2x base damage that is affected by +Dmg buffs which is far more useful than any accuracy or ToHit bonus will ever be.

Controllers are really a 1.100 ranged damage mod AT vs. any enemy that does not have mez protection. (Blasters are 1.125.)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDR2nd View Post
So Controllers get a damage bonus when the enemy is being held. Why a damage bonus when an accuracy bonus would be much more realistic and useful. What good is a damage bonus when you continually miss your target? Please don't tell me to put accuracy enhancements on the powers because I have some with 3 accuracy enhancements and they miss quite a bit too. If you put your enemy to sleep or immobilize him/her in any way, that's not going to affect their durability but it will make him/her much easier to hit since they can't dodge, block or counter in any way. Just my humble opinion.
Just saying this statement makes absolutely no sense to me. Except in a few rare cases, NPC mobs even at +4 do not walk around with defenses enough to cause any real accuracy issues. And, it is well-known that AoE powers (obviously) have a lower chance to hit which is why they are often slotted with more accuracy.
Even then, I have never ever had accuracy problems as bad as the OP claims to have which leads me to believe he is either trolling or just needs to stop trying to take on +4 Paragon Protectors when they pop their MoG.


@ Dr Gemini

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterD View Post
Still does not make him a troll. Hell, he could be mind control and fighting +3 carnies. That would cause some missing. How about some constructive feedback.
Well, in that case, reducing the difficulty at which he fights would be a good idea. Or how about not fighting the Carnival of Shadows.


 

Posted

Controllers generally have very good accuracy, a single accuracy SO puts you at the accuracy cap for most of their hold abilities, so extra accuracy would not be useful.

As mentioned above containment was added to address an issues controllers had, namely that aside from a few specialized builds, they couldn't solo. They could hold an enemy all day, but killing them took forever, so they literally doubled the damage controllers do agienst controlled target and controllers still are considered slow at solo(for many builds)


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Local_Man View Post
Back in the days before Containment, Controllers were horribly slow to solo, and many Controllers didn't ever solo until they got their pets. The damage that most Controllers did was pitiful. Containment fixed this and allowed Controllers to do a somewhat decent amount of damage. That's why Containment was added.

As others have pointed out, Accuracy has an absolute cap of 95%, so all that extra accuracy is mostly wasted.
Well, that, and the matter that all controller powers across the board for every class/at had their duration's halved and recharge times doubled. This due to some believing that controllers were ruining the game for everyone by taking away all the fun. They killed the fun by being able to perma-hold/stun large groups. I believe caps on how many targets powers could hit were introduced at the same time.

Increasing accuracy does seem far more logical, it would not have balanced out the huge controler nerfs though and would have killed off the class.


 

Posted

Against a +4 enemy, a standard AoE Hold with 2 Accuracy IOs has only about a 57% chance to hit, so the OP is not completely off base. I disagree about switching accuracy and damage though.

[Addendum: Personally, from a design perspective I also think the way Containment was designed to do double damage is extremely flawed. The extra damage dealt should have been double the base damage, so that you don't end up with the ridiculousness of Fire/Kin, which resulted mainly because you are actually doubling the affects of any damage buffs.]


 

Posted

And while foes who are mezzed do not have a -defense debuff placed on them per se ... many toggles/powers do get suppressed when you are mezzed resulting in your defense being lowered. My solo emp/sonic/elec build would drop from around 47% (ranged) to around 32% when attempting to do a RWZ challenge with her. Meant the difference between success vs lvl 53's and failure vs 54's as she'd take a bit too much damage during the downtime of the auras vs the 54's.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDR2nd View Post
So Controllers get a damage bonus when the enemy is being held. Why a damage bonus when an accuracy bonus would be much more realistic and useful. What good is a damage bonus when you continually miss your target? Please don't tell me to put accuracy enhancements on the powers because I have some with 3 accuracy enhancements and they miss quite a bit too. If you put your enemy to sleep or immobilize him/her in any way, that's not going to affect their durability but it will make him/her much easier to hit since they can't dodge, block or counter in any way. Just my humble opinion.
Roll an earth controller, get both the -def and containment damage.


 

Posted

I tend to agree with this post. I mean controllers are really ment to do damage. Increase the controllers accuracy on there powers would be much more effective fir the state of the game. In fact, in my oppinion. The controller set needs a total overhaul. I speak for myself and how i feel. Nothing is worse then being on a team and not feeling I am doing much. Could be just me. My suggestions would be

1- Make at least 2 powers in each control set do better damage. Example (Gravity's Propel and Lift)
2- Take the negative accuracy off the AOE holds like Wormhole and Gravity Distortion Field etc. Why should the controller be hindered for what there suppose to do.
3- Endurance seem to have a big issue on control sets. Again, no clue why. Its not like we we can kill things that fast.
4- Recharge times on AOE holds are way to long. We should atleast be able to keep up with the faster pace of the game. I holds arent even recharge and the rest of my friends already killed a mob.

There arent even real good sets to make us feel powerful. Melee sets get way better IO sets.

Again I am just seeing how the rest of the archetypes playout and feel that some archetypes are just falling to the waste side.

My two cents.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan78 View Post
I tend to agree with this post. I mean controllers are really ment to do damage.
This caught my eye (especially the part I highlighted).

Controllers are NOT a class meant for damage. If you want high damage, go play just about any other class. Controllers are meant to be a support class. Containment was added so that Controllers were not left completely in the dust for soloing.

Quote:
In fact, in my oppinion. The controller set needs a total overhaul. I speak for myself and how i feel. Nothing is worse then being on a team and not feeling I am doing much. Could be just me.
It is definitely you. The fact that you look at your controller for damage means that you are expecting your character to perform a function which is not its forte. Controllers are meant to support a team by "controlling" the enemy's actions. This is why your primary powers have so many effects that hold/immobilize/etc. If you learn to manage your controls well against large groups, you become a fearsome addition to any team. And, combined with your secondary set, you can wield a very powerful package.

Quote:
1- Make at least 2 powers in each control set do better damage. Example (Gravity's Propel and Lift)
2- Take the negative accuracy off the AOE holds like Wormhole and Gravity Distortion Field etc. Why should the controller be hindered for what there suppose to do.
3- Endurance seem to have a big issue on control sets. Again, no clue why. Its not like we we can kill things that fast.
4- Recharge times on AOE holds are way to long. We should atleast be able to keep up with the faster pace of the game. I holds arent even recharge and the rest of my friends already killed a mob.
1. All controller sets have at least THREE powers which inflict direct damage to the enemy. Most controller sets allow you to summon pets which also do damage. Containment further increases the damage you can do to a "controlled" target. You can even take some pretty good attacks in the Epic pools which take advantage of your containment damage. You aren't exactly at a loss for damage - just don't do as much as damage as a blaster sorry.

2. There isn't negative accuracy on AoE powers. AOE powers just have lower base accuracy as part of their nature. In the long run, this "lower accuracy" is a non-issue thanks to IO bonuses and slotting.

3. Endurance is something ALL characters have problems with until you are able to acquire all of your slots and/or make use of IO bonuses. No character is spared the problems of endurance. Not sure why you think controllers should be spared. Oh and AOE powers tend to cost more endurance to use. Maybe you shouldn't be spamming an AOE against 1 target.

4. Again, long recharge times are a part of the game and impact everyone. Also, I might point out that HOLDS are not the only part of your primary. You have a vast array of immobilizes, sleeps, stuns, knockdown, knockback, confusion, slows... just because your AOE hold isn't up doesn't mean you can't contribute. And, those who are able to use their AOE more often means they have slotted enough recharge bonuses into their build to vastly reduce the recharge gap. Stop living in fantasy land and learn how to play your character better. Make use of ALL your tools.

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There arent even real good sets to make us feel powerful. Melee sets get way better IO sets.
Are you kidding me? This statement has to be an absolute joke. Just because a set doesn't sell for 100+ million on the auction house doesn't mean it isn't good.

So, yeah. It really is just you. Sorry.


@ Dr Gemini

Quote:
�If we would come together and be great role models, it would be amazing to see how the next generation turns out.�