I think that there three kinds of players. Those who play the market, those who don't and those who do and complain about it. The third group is thankfully small and it shrank by 1 a few months ago.
23X was matching me for a while. I should match another billyun and see if he or she will match my matching.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
I don't play the market (much) to me it is the most dishonerable and more importantly: boring, way to make inf.
I make enough to IO the characters I need to but I never have such a massive surplus because once you have everything you need, the excess has no value. Using your time to earn more without need is a significant waste of $15 a month unless you actually enjoy it (which I doubt). If you do enjoy it, why? It is just because you enjoy taking inf from the needy?
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I'm sorry, could you start over? I was off kicking kittens and evicting my grandmother from her hovel, and missed what you were talking about.
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Originally Posted by Giant2005
I don't play the market (much) to me it is the most dishonerable and more importantly: boring, way to make inf.
I make enough to IO the characters I need to but I never have such a massive surplus because once you have everything you need, the excess has no value. Using your time to earn more without need is a significant waste of $15 a month unless you actually enjoy it (which I doubt). If you do enjoy it, why? It is just because you enjoy taking inf from the needy? |
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
Giant, I have 75 alts. Only 2 are 50s. All the rest are toons that I plan to play and level and I/O. I don't actually think I have enough now.
I convert inf to prestige on new servers so I can have a base.
I spend maybe 20 minutes a session on marketing and that is with 3 toons. I play a lot, probably about 3 - 4 hours a night. I get my money 's worth. Enought that I have two accounts.
I flip salvage to open market slots or to start a new toon off with a little nestegg to get to 27. Otherwise, I don't bother because it is boring.
I don't find it dishonorable. I don't steal from any players, I don't make them do anything. If I had a Action number 1 and I said I wanted a million for it would that be too much? Or should I just give it away at fraction of that because there is a collector who wants it but can't afford it?
How exactly do I get the inf to the "needy" players? Give it away?
Guess what? I already do. When they will take it.
The other night someone was saying he couldn't afford to craft because of all the rare salvage needed. He was begging people to send it to him because he wanted it NAO. He had hit 50 and he wanted to I/O.
I sent him 250 million. He never even thanked me. I asked to me sure he got it and a couple other folk said that they would thank me if sent them money, so I did. They wouldn't take it. They were just griefing him for bad manners. I give away money all the time, when they will take it.
I post up salvage all the time cheap for people with little money. They still pay me too much. What do you expect me to do?
I list my crafted stuff like 20% to 25 % below market value. They still pay me to much.
I gave a level 28 Stealth Unbounded Leap in exhange for a lvl 28 Adj Targeting Recharge. He didn't ask. I was complaining that I couldn't get one no matter how much I was bidding. I practically had to beg him to take it. It took 4 tells before he would accept it.
What would you have me do?
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That's right! He sent it to me via email using the honor system to convert it to prestige. I took screencaps if he ever needed to see them.|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
23X was matching me for a while. I should match another billyun and see if he or she will match my matching.
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Really nice guy!
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Well to be honest, it doesn;t sound like you are who I was talking about.|
Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow
Giant, I have 75 alts. Only 2 are 50s. All the rest are toons that I plan to play and level and I/O. I don't actually think I have enough now.
I convert inf to prestige on new servers so I can have a base. I spend maybe 20 minutes a session on marketing and that is with 3 toons. I play a lot, probably about 3 - 4 hours a night. I get my money 's worth. Enought that I have two accounts. I flip salvage to open market slots or to start a new toon off with a little nestegg to get to 27. Otherwise, I don't bother because it is boring. I don't find it dishonorable. I don't steal from any players, I don't make them do anything. If I had a Action number 1 and I said I wanted a million for it would that be too much? Or should I just give it away at fraction of that because there is a collector who wants it but can't afford it? How exactly do I get the inf to the "needy" players? Give it away? Guess what? I already do. When they will take it. The other night someone was saying he couldn't afford to craft because of all the rare salvage needed. He was begging people to send it to him because he wanted it NAO. He had hit 50 and he wanted to I/O. I sent him 250 million. He never even thanked me. I asked to me sure he got it and a couple other folk said that they would thank me if sent them money, so I did. They wouldn't take it. They were just griefing him for bad manners. I give away money all the time, when they will take it. I post up salvage all the time cheap for people with little money. They still pay me too much. What do you expect me to do? I list my crafted stuff like 20% to 25 % below market value. They still pay me to much. I gave a level 28 Stealth Unbounded Leap in exhange for a lvl 28 Adj Targeting Recharge. He didn't ask. I was complaining that I couldn't get one no matter how much I was bidding. I practically had to beg him to take it. It took 4 tells before he would accept it. What would you have me do? |
I am wondering how do you manage to make a profit selling stuff below the market value? I assumed you were buying below the market value and selling higher for a profit.
Sounds like I was wrong.
I bid whatever the floor is. If market is say 25,500,123 is the buy it NAO price and the lowest bid is say 10,000,000 then I bid 10,515,920. I am buy those things that people up for less than that. Lots of people list at a very low price like 1 or 1000 or some number like that. As long as I Have the high bid at the moment then I win the auction.
I am always paying at least 1 inf over whatever the player selling is offering it for.
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And you don't consider that dishonorable? If someone wants that product, the no longer have to pay the minimum that they would have without your input, they have to pay the minimum + whatever mark up you decide to put on there.|
Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow
I bid whatever the floor is. If market is say 25,500,123 is the buy it NAO price and the lowest bid is say 10,000,000 then I bid 10,515,920. I am buy those things that people up for less than that. Lots of people list at a very low price like 1 or 1000 or some number like that. As long as I Have the high bid at the moment then I win the auction.
I am always paying at least 1 inf over whatever the player selling is offering it for. |
If the Joker decided to buy all the Utility Belts in the World and re-sell them for prices Batman could not afford, the world's most popular superhero would be reduced to quite a boring character.
There is no minimum, other than what the vendor offers you. In general, I am paying them 1000 times what they would get if the vended it.
For the seller, he is either making more than he asked or I am not getting the item.
For the buyer, they are determining what they will pay, not me. I have no control over what they decide to pay. I offer them a nice, shiney fully crafted I/O that they can slot immediately. They don't have to get the recipe, find the salvage, pay the crafting cost and find someplace to craft it.
If they don't want to use the market, the other sources are merits, AE tickets (for salvage or random rolls) Alignment merits and so forth. They can get anything they would care to work for and never use the market.
Further, the devs tell us that the game is balanced around SO's not IO's. They don't have to do anything but hit up the stores and buy SO's.
Where am I acting dishonorably?
I dont think anyone said flipping, crafting wont make you rich. Alot of people (myself included) thinks its boring and just dont want to. Id rather farm, run tips, TFs or even GM hunt than to sit in WW looking for ways to make a buck. I sell my drops or roll and sell them. Maybe im just lucky on my drops to afford to purple and softcap def about 20 50's on 2 accounts without playing the market other than just selling. And all my toons IOs have been paid NAO for enh and not recipes. I have 0 toons sitting in WW/BM waiting on bids. I play, sell, buy. Unless i use certain sets then i keep them in bins.
Who sits in Went's? I log all my guys in day locations. If they are JUST marketing, then I log in, check what they bought collect the sales proceed, maybe craft and then log them and play a different toon.
If I want to play them then, I do that and then play them. It takes at most 10 minutes per toon. I never have more than 3 and I don't check them every day, just whenever I feel like.
I played for about 6 hours of which marketing took about 10 minutes.
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I apologize, it sounds like you are buying recipes and crafting them and relisting. I have no problem with that - you are providing a service to earn your mark up.|
Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow
There is no minimum, other than what the vendor offers you. In general, I am paying them 1000 times what they would get if the vended it.
For the seller, he is either making more than he asked or I am not getting the item. For the buyer, they are determining what they will pay, not me. I have no control over what they decide to pay. I offer them a nice, shiney fully crafted I/O that they can slot immediately. They don't have to get the recipe, find the salvage, pay the crafting cost and find someplace to craft it. If they don't want to use the market, the other sources are merits, AE tickets (for salvage or random rolls) Alignment merits and so forth. They can get anything they would care to work for and never use the market. Further, the devs tell us that the game is balanced around SO's not IO's. They don't have to do anything but hit up the stores and buy SO's. Where am I acting dishonorably? |
I assumed you were doing what I had once done on a different game (which earned me a permaban even though I had not broken any rules). I was simply buying things cheap and relisting them at a significantly higher price.
Giant: Even if I am "buying things cheap and relisting at a significantly higher price" how is that dishonorable? Everyone can see the last 5. If I'm actually getting people to sell to me at my price on a fairly regular basis, my price is going to show up there.
You can either wait a little while and buy for my buy price PLUS ONE INF*, or you can buy it from me now, at my sell price.
I'm giving people a choice. Buy it nao, or wait.
* people DO buy for my bid plus one inf. I don't usually have enough stock to "own" any niche, but when I'm dealing in low-turnover items, I often see something like "55,100,909"; my market signature is 908...
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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OMG, this thread.|
Originally Posted by Giant2005
I don't play the market (much) to me it is the most dishonerable and more importantly: boring, way to make inf.
I make enough to IO the characters I need to but I never have such a massive surplus because once you have everything you need, the excess has no value. Using your time to earn more without need is a significant waste of $15 a month unless you actually enjoy it (which I doubt). If you do enjoy it, why? It is just because you enjoy taking inf from the needy? |
It starts with a classy, "Hey, thanks for showing me the ropes and being patient. Now I'm a multibillionaire, too!" and immediately segued into a, "Way to go, you just made another commie moneybags stealing from the poor to add to their own pockets!"
Giant, would you like to learn how to make billions? It's really easy. In fact, I'll front you some cash if you like. I'm a multibillionaire too.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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Some folks see anything that doesn't involve "earning" the sale, either by getting it as a drop or at least converting components into a crafted item, as dishonorable. There's not much anyone can do to argue with such views. It's akin to arguing points of religion or the politics of social policy.
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Originally Posted by Fulmens
Giant: Even if I am "buying things cheap and relisting at a significantly higher price" how is that dishonorable?
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Dishonorable? REALLY?|
Originally Posted by Giant2005
I don't play the market (much) to me it is the most dishonerable and more importantly: boring, way to make inf.
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| I make enough to IO the characters I need to but I never have such a massive surplus because once you have everything you need, the excess has no value. Using your time to earn more without need is a significant waste of $15 a month unless you actually enjoy it (which I doubt). If you do enjoy it, why? It is just because you enjoy taking inf from the needy? |
Also, when did you get a job with the Fun Police?
If someone wants to spend their $15 locked into Wentworths, marketeering for all they're worth, that's THEIR money and THEIR fun. You have jack and squat to say about it.
In short, there are people who play this game differently than you do. That doesn't make them "wrong" or you "right". So stop with this childish attempts to seize some sort of meaningless "moral high ground". There isn't any such thing, and you only look funny (we can see inside your nostrils) in the attempt.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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... Well, your interpretation of his statement is just as puzzling to me, as tongue in cheek as it might be. Seems like he's arguing for communism rather than bashing it. | It starts with a classy, "Hey, thanks for showing me the ropes and being patient. Now I'm a multibillionaire, too!" and immediately segued into a, "Way to go, you just made another commie moneybags stealing from the poor to add to their own pockets!" |
Edit: aah, gotcha.
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I meant more the "cultural" definition of communism, as something that evil demon worshippers do in their free time, rather than the actual correct economic definition.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
... Well, your interpretation of his statement is just as puzzling to me, as tongue in cheek as it might be. Seems like he's arguing for communism rather than bashing it.
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There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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What you need to realize in this particular game, or really any other, is that the money is expendable to those who are spending it. So 1 million vs 5 million for an IO might not matter to the person buying it. You might come along and "feel" that 1 million is too much and try to buy it at 500k. Given the right set of circumstances, you could occasionally pick the IO up at 500k. That does not mean that any price over 500k is "evil" or "dishonorable". The only time that is an issue is if the game's rules say so.|
Originally Posted by Giant2005
I apologize, it sounds like you are buying recipes and crafting them and relisting. I have no problem with that - you are providing a service to earn your mark up.
I assumed you were doing what I had once done on a different game (which earned me a permaban even though I had not broken any rules). I was simply buying things cheap and relisting them at a significantly higher price. |
At some point if the IOs are listed too high, the majority of buyers will stop paying the high prices because some other seller offers the IO at a lower price consistently. This only happens if there is a large amount of supply ( IE things like pvp ios and purples do not fit into this mode of operation). So the 2 (or more) sellers will compete for sales by trying to undercut each other. This will cause the IO to reach a normal price range for that IO.
So the imaginary IO has a price range of 500k to 10 million lets say. Due to the large supply of the IO it will typically range from 4m-7m when a large amount of sellers are active in the niche. This is the competitive range of the IO, prices above or below that are not entitled to anyone.
Think of it this way: A new widescreen TV comes out, and supply is kinda short at first. Pirce : 899. 6 months out the supply and demand meet up and stay steady. Price: 699. Next in line is a Christmas sale. Price 499. The other big chain in town offers the same TV at 399 instead. Where will most buyers go ?
Do you demand that stores always sell at 399 or lower ? Of course not, you keep doing that and eventually security will escort you out.
The trick is understanding the market in those kind of terms, some prices are 'sale prices' while others are 'small supply' prices and both of those differ from the 'normal' price.
Then the last thing you must accept about the market is that a buyer can pay whatever they want, at or above the sell price. So if I list something for 2 million and some one pays 8 million for it, I did nothing to enforce that 8 million price tag. Now if people start paying 8 million in groups, that becomes the defacto price and it does not matter what sellers are listing at. I could list at 2 million all week long and if buyers are paying 8 million, I cannot stop them.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
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This one has to get first reply because it humored me a little.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
If someone wants to spend their $15 locked into Wentworths, marketeering for all they're worth, that's THEIR money and THEIR fun. You have jack and squat to say about it.
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You quoted me perfectly, yet you chose not to read the content. Before posting something that makes you look like you lack a basic understanding of the English language, I suggest you look more carefully.
The term "unless you actually enjoy it" invalidates everything you have said to the point it is laughable. I am not telling them how to have fun, I am acknowledging the possibility that some people might find it fun. What I am saying is perhaps you should read the posts you quote before you respond to them because it just makes you look silly.
I am not going to quote any post with this response in particular because they are pretty much all about questioning the relevance of the term "dishonorable" so I'll answer them all in this post.
If I want an IO and someone has it listed for 1 mil, awesome. I bid a mil and it is mine.
If I want an IO and someone has it listed for 1 mil and then someone else buys it immediately re-listing it for 10mil, I have to bid 10 mil if I want it. That is 9 million that is taken from my pocket and placed in yours for what service? You provided nothing of value and took my money. What honor could there possibly be in that?
You can justify it to yourself in any way you like, I don't care but don't pretend it is the honorable thing to do.
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As I said I have more money than I need, I have also said I know how to play the market well - actually I said I have played the market so well in another mmo the Devs thought it necessary to ban me for it.|
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
OMG, this thread.
It starts with a classy, "Hey, thanks for showing me the ropes and being patient. Now I'm a multibillionaire, too!" and immediately segued into a, "Way to go, you just made another commie moneybags stealing from the poor to add to their own pockets!" Giant, would you like to learn how to make billions? It's really easy. In fact, I'll front you some cash if you like. I'm a multibillionaire too. |
So no, I don't need your advice, I don't need your money and I don't need your trolling.
Well, congrats to DevilYouKnow. ^_^ I have a lot of alts too, there are myriad ways to spend all that money. 
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
OK, I have posted many times in this forum somtimes making people question my sanity. Nethergoat once said that no one who learned how the market worked ever came back to say they were wrong or thank you.
I was wrong and Thank You for all your help.
I still beleive that it's wrong to manipulate the market for funsies or because you can. But I have tried every way of making inf from farming the council map, level locked toons doing A-Merits, just selling drops, flipping salvage, etc, (everything but AE, for some reason I just can't get into it), you name it, I 've tried it.
Playing the market with level 50 (or wherever the supply) enhancements is the quickest, surest way to make a pile of inf. I was at 22 billion until yesterday. I gave a billion to my sister (who actually does know how to market, she just doesn't want to) sent a billion to a SS/Inv brute who needs Kinetic Combats in multiples and converted the other 2 billion into Prestige to finish off a base on Union for a buddy.
In truth, I have probably converted more than 5 billion to furnish the 8 SG bases that I have so I have probably made closer to 30 or more. I give it away to people begging for Salvage or whatever. I have taught (or tried to) some of buddies how to market and further explained why set bonuses are a "good thing".
So thank you for all the guides and help. Fulmens, thanks for matching inf/prestige when I was starting (there was someone who matched Fulmens as well on one of those deals but I can't remember who). You were all right, it's the fastest way.