Questions about Paragon City, the (virtual) place


Arctic_Princess

 

Posted

All,

Has there been any official or unofficial count of Paragon City's population? I get the impression it's a rather large place with a population in the millions...I even want to say I saw/read something giving its population at 7M...however its real-life counterpart Providence only has a population of about 1.6M. 7M would put it in the neighborhood of New York City with its current pop at about 8.1M.

This leads me to my next question; how is Paragon City viewed on the world stage? There's always the thought of "New York, London, Paris," etc. when discussing the world's great cities, but perhaps on Primal Earth it's "New York, Paragon, London, Paris," etc. Let's face it, Paragon has the world's only crashed Rikti spaceship, is a major technology hub with the Crey Corporation and Portal Corp., not to mention Statesman, the Freedom Phalanx, and is known worldwide as the "City of Heroes"(tm).

I'd argue for those reasons alone Paragon would have a larger population than Providence, but maybe not as big as 7M. Anyone got some thoughts? Evidence?


- Green Lantern
"Say, Jim...woo! That's a bad out-FIT!" - Superman: The Movie

Me 'n my posse: http://www.citygametracker.com/site/....php?user=5608

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern68 View Post
however its real-life counterpart Providence only has a population of about 1.6M.
Whaaaaaat? There aren't 1.6 million people in all of Rhode Island. Providence has maybe a quarter-million, tops, if you throw in the suburbs.


 

Posted

What Golden Girl said. Paragon City supplanted New York. It isn't entirely clear that New York even exists - It might be named Empire City instead. It also isn't clear where the United Nations is headquartered since, by extension, Paragon City would have been the most reasonable place to put it given the history of "Primal Earth". Since we haven't yet been told otherwise, I suppose that we assume that the U.N. is in New York or its analog. It matters to the extent that it would be good to know where the Vanguard is headquartered when they aren't spending their time in the RWZ.

For that matter, we don't even really know what the state of the U.N. is in a post-Rikti-War world.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickRiptide View Post
For that matter, we don't even really know what the state of the U.N. is in a post-Rikti-War world.
The UN chartered Vanguard, so it very much still exists in Primal Earth. Location is still indeterminate.

Edit: I'd assume that Paragon City is about the same population as modern-day New York, but with the "boroughs" lost during the Rikti War, Arachnos, Faultline, the Banished Pantheon, Crey, etc., I personally doubt it would have that many people. Perhaps half the population? All just speculation, obviously.

But to answer the OP, I can think of no reference that clearly states the population. Even if there were such reference, with the loss of Galaxy City now, that number could have easily changed.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickRiptide View Post
What Golden Girl said. Paragon City supplanted New York. It isn't entirely clear that New York even exists - It might be named Empire City instead. It also isn't clear where the United Nations is headquartered since, by extension, Paragon City would have been the most reasonable place to put it given the history of "Primal Earth". Since we haven't yet been told otherwise, I suppose that we assume that the U.N. is in New York or its analog. It matters to the extent that it would be good to know where the Vanguard is headquartered when they aren't spending their time in the RWZ.

For that matter, we don't even really know what the state of the U.N. is in a post-Rikti-War world.
Could be Geneva, since there's a very large U.N. center there. Makes sense if New Work wasn't in the running and Paragon was unsuitable for some reason (Rikti invasion?)


 

Posted

I'm pretty sure New York still exists and is still a major city, I think it was mentioned on the site's backstory page during the Rikti invasion as important enough to attack.

Given the overall lack of housing, though the common-ness of Apartments, I'd actually venture to say Paragon's ACTUAL population is small, but a lot of people work there regularly.


Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel View Post
Given the overall lack of housing, though the common-ness of Apartments
Or the suburbs are so safe and unimportant that we just don't see them in-game.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waret View Post
Or the suburbs are so safe and unimportant that we just don't see them in-game.
I'm going with that. I think Paragon has a much larger METRO population than the actual CITY.


- Green Lantern
"Say, Jim...woo! That's a bad out-FIT!" - Superman: The Movie

Me 'n my posse: http://www.citygametracker.com/site/....php?user=5608

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waret View Post
Or the suburbs are so safe and unimportant that we just don't see them in-game.
This is borne out by the city map, which plainly shows that there are large areas of the city center, never mind the outskirts, that are not accessible to player characters.

That said, there is one suburb where interesting things happen: Salamanca.


 

Posted

Keep in mind what you see behind the War Walls is effectively 'outside' what the players know in Paragon, they're the designated safe zones, where 'stuff don't happen' and probably where the majority of the population live. They're not even the next zone, as you can see from the map there's a lot of city out there that doesn't require any hero/villain attention.

That or its a conspiracy where the parts we know of Paragon City aren't actually real and the War Walls are to keep the heroes in, the mobs are all actors who are paid to pretend to be 'defeated' (and teleport out when they do, why else do you think they disappear) all for the enjoyment of the rest of the world. It's a less deadly verison of the Running man TV show.

Heck server downtime is just them quickly switching in stuff, like when the Theme parks close for the winter for maintenance and building new rides.

Though there is still a bug in Peregrine that lets you get behind the war walls in Talos...there isn't much to see though, heck the buildings and ground aren't even solid!


Badge Earned: Wing Clipper

A real showstopper!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU View Post
That or its a conspiracy where the parts we know of Paragon City aren't actually real and the War Walls are to keep the heroes in, the mobs are all actors who are paid to pretend to be 'defeated' (and teleport out when they do, why else do you think they disappear) all for the enjoyment of the rest of the world.
... Great, the eternal battle between good and evil is actually just a really elaborate version of The Truman Show. I'm going to have a hard time getting that image out of my head now. I hate you, Milkman Dan. :)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTS View Post
Could be Geneva, since there's a very large U.N. center there. Makes sense if New Work wasn't in the running and Paragon was unsuitable for some reason (Rikti invasion?)
The Rikti hit lots of major cities at the same time. Pretty much any city important enough to be 'in the running' as UN headquarters probably got attacked.


_________
@Inquisitor

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
... Great, the eternal battle between good and evil is actually just a really elaborate version of The Truman Show. I'm going to have a hard time getting that image out of my head now. I hate you, Milkman Dan.
Think of it this way.

The first thing your hero has ever done (assuming you did the tutorial) is blasted, with fire, fists or nuclear radiation, some defenseless people who have been contaminated by something (you don't know what at that point) and are driven to riot by the contamination.

Read that again.

Your "hero" beats the snot out of a bunch of innocent people who have been exposed to something that essentially mind controls them into being aggressive via violent and terrifying hallucinations, innocent people who badly need medical care.

It gets even more entertaining when you realize that (later) you mug crazy homeless people who have been infected with an alien virus which mutates them into being monsters for samples of their blood, so that you can make an experimental magic wand and then test that wand's magic on them to see if it will cure their infection.

Do note that if you use the magic wand on one of the Lost, that the other Lost around the newly cured immediately start attacking it.

And this is just the first two examples that come to mind. Would you like more?

There is certainly an epic battle of good and evil. However, I suspect that our "heroes" aren't on the side that they think they are.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Runner View Post
Think of it this way.
Why on Earth would I want to do that? Overthinking the genre is the biggest problem in superhero comics today. The last thing I want to do is contribute to that.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
In the Cohverse, I think Paragon replaces NYC in world importance.
This is correct. Paragon City is, for our virtual world and Primal Earth, one of the largest cities on Earth and represents a social and cultural capital of humanity.


There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
... Great, the eternal battle between good and evil is actually just a really elaborate version of The Truman Show. I'm going to have a hard time getting that image out of my head now. I hate you, Milkman Dan.
On the contrary, I just got an idea for a new character concept!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Runner View Post
There is certainly an epic battle of good and evil. However, I suspect that our "heroes" aren't on the side that they think they are.
"That was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.


My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Runner View Post
There is certainly an epic battle of good and evil. However, I suspect that our "heroes" aren't on the side that they think they are.
The Heroes are heroes, and the Villains are villains


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
The Heroes are heroes, and the Villains are villains
One should be judged on their actions, first, by their words, second. By our actions ... Heh.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Runner View Post
Think of it this way.

The first thing your hero has ever done (assuming you did the tutorial) is blasted, with fire, fists or nuclear radiation, some defenseless people who have been contaminated by something (you don't know what at that point) and are driven to riot by the contamination.

Read that again.

Your "hero" beats the snot out of a bunch of innocent people who have been exposed to something that essentially mind controls them into being aggressive via violent and terrifying hallucinations, innocent people who badly need medical care.

It gets even more entertaining when you realize that (later) you mug crazy homeless people who have been infected with an alien virus which mutates them into being monsters for samples of their blood, so that you can make an experimental magic wand and then test that wand's magic on them to see if it will cure their infection.

Do note that if you use the magic wand on one of the Lost, that the other Lost around the newly cured immediately start attacking it.

And this is just the first two examples that come to mind. Would you like more?

There is certainly an epic battle of good and evil. However, I suspect that our "heroes" aren't on the side that they think they are.
I really actually have to agree with Sun here. This puts our "Heroes" in a whole new light when we look at things from a different perspective. Would a true "hero" act this why? Or would he or she find another way to fix these situations?


 

Posted

A cartoon hero is a hero because we say he or she is. It's sort of like why Paladins in fantasy games can kill indiscriminately without losing their holy status. Word of god (the creators) is that these are heroic actions because the enemy can't be reasoned with. The situation is ridiculous, but the point is to give the good guys an excuse to fight warehouses full of relentless enemies.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DamionRayne View Post
I really actually have to agree with Sun here. This puts our "Heroes" in a whole new light when we look at things from a different perspective. Would a true "hero" act this why? Or would he or she find another way to fix these situations?
Because game mechanics does not equal real-life.

How many times has a character of yours been shot by a Hellion pistol? You'd be seriously injured straight away. Okay so you can 'heal up' in 2 seconds at a medi-porter...

I like the episode of Futurama where they use the paste that gives you superhuman powers. I'll misquote the mayor of New New York:

"In your recent battle the collateral damage is marginally outweighed by the good you've done, and for that we thank you!"

I'm sure someone will be along soon to furnish us with the exact quote. Gawd bless the Internet.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Runner View Post
The first thing your hero has ever done (assuming you did the tutorial) is blasted, with fire, fists or nuclear radiation, some defenseless people who have been contaminated by something (you don't know what at that point) and are driven to riot by the contamination.
Your first contact in the tutorial is Officer Flint, who you have to talk to. The first thing he says to you is:
Quote:
We have a crisis going on here, and we need help desperately. Some thugs took an experimental drug thinking it was something else, and now they're trashing the area. We have to regain control to ensure the safety of the citizens.
Also, the Contaminated as per their official writeup:
Quote:
The Contaminated were once a small-time band of thugs who dabbled in the drug market, mainly to feed their own addictions. Looking for a cheap score, they broke into an abandoned Crey Biotech office building and found a forgotten stash. Instead of a quick and easy fix, what they found was an experimental drug now known on the streets as “Outbreak.” The gang members got the high they were seeking, and Outbreak spread throughout the neighborhood as quickly as its name implied.
And the first thing in the description for all of the Contaminated if you want to examine them:
Quote:
These thugs have gotten their hands on a mysterious drug that drives them mad.
They're not exactly innocents, and hardly defenseless seeing as plenty of them have guns and knives (probably illegal, unregistered firearms, to boot!) Don't do drugs! Sure, they'll make your eyes glow and you can quote Big Trouble In Little China, but some hero will beat you up.

Anyways, the Outbreak tutorial is being replaced, so I don't know what the point of justifying it was.