Dev Chat Highlights, August 10: Time Manipulation and Powers Q and A with Synapse
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2011-08-10 11:29 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
By the way, Phil's Intrepid Informer article is up in the News and Announcements section. Still have some issues with publishing it to the website unfortunately 
.
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
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Yeah, but Mind Link grants pretty significant resistance to Psi damage, which Farsight does not. I'd call that an equal trade. Since aside from Blind and lolPvP how often do you need +Perception?|
Originally Posted by Narkor
Really?
I sure hope that +To-Hit and +Defense buff is pretty low, otherwise this just makes me want to strangle a few people. Hello? Mind Link? Cannot be slotted for Recharge Reduction, does not grant +Perception. |
Also keep in mind that Widows are not a dedicated Support AT. Their secondary is a mix of team buff and armor set.
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Originally Posted by reiella
Until I see something that states to the contrary, going to assume VK is right
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So... 30% resistance to psi damage is a fair trade for the ability to slot for recharge?|
Originally Posted by Von Krieger
Yeah, but Mind Link grants pretty significant resistance to Psi damage, which Farsight does not. I'd call that an equal trade. Since aside from Blind and lolPvP how often do you need +Perception?
Also keep in mind that Widows are not a dedicated Support AT. Their secondary is a mix of team buff and armor set. |
... Yea, I'm in.
Is there even a fight that lasts more than 15-30 seconds that deals mainly psi damage? In an amount that cannot be just healed back?
I have yet to run into one in-game, to be honest.
If you're thinking about low level Fortunatas, I'd like to mention low level Night Widows, who have smoke grenades that can render a few teammates totally useless for a good while. In those cases, the Psi resistance and the +Perception are both valuable.
As for the dedicated Support AT, I could be wrong (since the beta servers won't let me in as of this post, for some reason), but I think that the character creation might be screaming 'you're wrong' if you click on Support.
I could've sworn I saw Widows and Soldiers under that.
(Edit: managed to log in and check. Controllers, Defenders, Corruptors, Masterminds, Arachnos Widows and Arachnos Soldiers are all classified under support)
On a personal note (read: opinion), I'd gladly consider anyone with a built-in Leadership pool (with beefed up numbers on maneuvers, to boot) and some buffs (Mind Link), control (WAWG, Web Envelope and a bunch of Fort powers) and debuffs (-Recharge and Surveillance) a support. Even if it's not on Defender levels, it's at least on the offensive Corruptor levels.
In any case, if it's (Farsight) a Mind Link clone that's just better (at least in my opinion) I just might roll a Psychic/Time Corruptor. And complain.
Yea, complain sounds good too.
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I said they're not a DEDICATED support AT. What I meant was that their secondary is stitched together from a mix of Personal Defense/Armor powers and a mix of support powers (and some controls.)|
Originally Posted by Narkor
As for the dedicated Support AT, I could be wrong (since the beta servers won't let me in as of this post, for some reason), but I think that the character creation might be screaming 'you're wrong' if you click on Support.
I could've sworn I saw Widows and Soldiers under that. (Edit: managed to log in and check. Controllers, Defenders, Corruptors, Masterminds, Arachnos Widows and Arachnos Soldiers are all classified under support) On a personal note (read: opinion), I'd gladly consider anyone with a built-in Leadership pool (with beefed up numbers on maneuvers, to boot) and some buffs (Mind Link), control (WAWG, Web Envelope and a bunch of Fort powers) and debuffs (-Recharge and Surveillance) a support. Even if it's not on Defender levels, it's at least on the offensive Corruptor levels. In any case, if it's (Farsight) a Mind Link clone that's just better (at least in my opinion) I just might roll a Psychic/Time Corruptor. And complain. Yea, complain sounds good too. |
Because they're a quasi-jack-of-all-trades you should expect a trade off. Corruptors, Controllers, Defenders, and Mastermind DON'T get the sort of personal defenses that Widows and Soldiers get. I would expect the AT's with a secondary powerset that is dedicated entirely to Support to end up with better quality support powers than an AT with a secondary that is half and half.
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Originally Posted by reiella
Until I see something that states to the contrary, going to assume VK is right
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Still think it should have been a control set. Still hoping for Time Control.
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I would tend to disagree. I believe I can make the case that nukes like Nova are actually currently underpowered by City of Heroes' own design rules. Beyond that I also think that the damage nukes do given their extreme recharge is not even bound by normal damage balance rules any more than the damage mitigation strength of powers like Elude and Unstoppable are bound by normal powerset balance rules governing mitigation strength. If damage mitigation powers can be designed to provide temporary invulnerability, nukes can for brief periods of time transcend the normal offensive limits of players. Especially when used by an archetype that specializes on damage and only damage (I recognize other archetypes besides blasters possess nuke-like powers).
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Originally Posted by Von Krieger
They've moved away from the Tier 9 nuke type penalties. Synapse has been thinking about maybe lessening the crash from the nukes. But if they did that, they'd have to lessen the damage.
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You didn't think they would? o.O
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Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
Icy Bastion for Scrapper Ice Armor! Wewt!
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By all means, please do. I can agree with you anecdotally, but you probably have nice solid numbers and the like to back up your opinion.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I would tend to disagree. I believe I can make the case that nukes like Nova are actually currently underpowered by City of Heroes' own design rules.
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The defense is a little worse than Mind Link, the to hit is better though.|
Originally Posted by Narkor
I sure hope that +To-Hit and +Defense buff is pretty low, otherwise this just makes me want to strangle a few people.
Hello? Mind Link? Cannot be slotted for Recharge Reduction, does not grant +Perception. |
That being said:
Mind Link = Power available to a high damage, relatively tough AT with mez protection
Farsight= Power available to lower-damage, no mez protection support ATs
Yes, Farsight is a stronger power than Mindlink but it's a power in a buff/debuff set as opposed to one available to a damage-focused AT. It's like complaining that Dispersion Bubble has a larger radius than Grant Cover or that Freezing Rain has a stronger resistance debuff than Venom Grenade.
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Originally Posted by Narkor
As for the dedicated Support AT, I could be wrong (since the beta servers won't let me in as of this post, for some reason), but I think that the character creation might be screaming 'you're wrong' if you click on Support.
I could've sworn I saw Widows and Soldiers under that. (Edit: managed to log in and check. Controllers, Defenders, Corruptors, Masterminds, Arachnos Widows and Arachnos Soldiers are all classified under support) |
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I don't want to side track the entire thread, but just consider this: if Nova was balanced around its recharge time it would do on average 760 points of base damage for Blasters. That's unslotted damage.|
Originally Posted by Oliin
By all means, please do. I can agree with you anecdotally, but you probably have nice solid numbers and the like to back up your opinion.
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Also, if you want to see what a power with a softer crash can do, see EMP.
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Oh, I didn't mean here exactly, more just in general. Still, it wouldn't have been the worst side-track I've ever seen on these forums.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I don't want to side track the entire thread
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Agreed. In fact, please do sidetrack this thread and any and all threads necessary to point out how Blaster nukes don't have to lose damage in order to lose the severity of their crashes. |
Originally Posted by Oliin
Oh, I didn't mean here exactly, more just in general. Still, it wouldn't have been the worst side-track I've ever seen on these forums.
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I'm certainly happy to hear your opinions on it.
Should I start a thread? "Arcanaville says 'UP WITH NUKES'!!"?
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Additionally, you still have to use two powers to achieve the boss hold (Time Crawl, then Time Stop).|
Originally Posted by Quasadu
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Anyone with Ice Blast, and various other existing Defender/Corruptor combos can already 2 shot hold bosses by simply stacking Holds.
This doesn't add a new ability to the Defender/Corruptor arsenal, it just goes about doing something they could ALREADY do in a different way.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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I don't think any one power in the set could be considered, on its own, overpowered. I will say, however, that I had the same Cassandra problem with Time Manipulation that I did with Willpower, so I'm just going to do what I did with Willpower: roll one and enjoy it.
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Originally Posted by BeyondReach
Uh, it may prove to be different when playing, but Time Manipulation sounds pretty OP. AoE + High Mag hold is exactly the same amount of holds my Dominator has. Dominator /=/ Defender.
EDIT: That's not the only thing. Just an example. |
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Corruptors are as much of a damage dealing oriented AT than, well, just about anyone else (except Blasters, of course -and one could make an argument for Defenders, too).|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I disagree with the server classifications in a number of cases. Yes, VEATs provide some support but they aren't really a support AT, they're a damage AT that happens to provide support.[...]
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Their secondary role, which is the same as Controllers and Masterminds, is support.
As for the Widow Epic Archetype? They just happen to have self protection to pile on top of their own support powers (do I need to bring Traps up?).
They also just happen to lose out on a costume slot (still haven't checked if they get one for free or not with Freedom).
Or to have a crashless nuke. But really, crashes on nukes are just '...really?' already.
Or a weak version of SR?
Do I need to mention weapon customization? Or power customization?
And now Mind Link is a weaker version of Farsight? (And this just sounds like a wrong wording, but whatever.)
I almost forgot the 'epic' storyline. Which, come Freedom (and even with just Going Rogue), is yet another downside.
To me, if you're going to stick Epic onto something, it had better get some advantages; and with all those disadvantages (and let's not bring up the Crab backpack into this), plus indirectly turning one of the Widow's signature abilitie into a weaker version of one available to anyone is just... kind of like locking Peacebrigners and Warshades behind that 'VIP stuff' banner, if only the way their tri-form design wasn't screaming 'old and outdated'... sorry I got carried.
In any case, I tried my best to keep this on a Power X and Power Y case, which was the whole point of it (I mean, tweak the recharge or the numbers, but the ability to slot it for recharge, really? That's not an AT modifier (unless Defenders are the only ones able to), it's power balance). Defenders getting a better version is -totally acceptable-. The others? They're just about in the same boat. No. Reason. At. All.
Oh, I almost forgot. Shiny new stuff. Gotta leave the rest in the dust...
This reminds me, did the SoA storyline get any updates? I need to check on that, otherwise; boy am I glad to be done with that.
[As for the Dominators under the pet section... they have permanent pets would be my guess for them belonging there. Some of them are quite worthwhile (I still laugh at Gremlins though), and frankly, It would just look weird for new players if there was a single pet class (which I strongly believe there is -with that pet bar being unique to Masterminds and all).]
@Narkor
Shut it.
Seriously, you're whining about a single power versus a whole other archetype.
Widows get mez protection up to brute and scrapper levels, defenses up to the defense soft cap with up to 60% resistance at low health to everything but psionic(which they have a lot of by default), stealth that rivals stalkers, all the previous in auto powers or toggles that are always on, good melee attacks that do toxic damage which is hard to defend against and ranged single target AND AoE damage that uses a type of damage that isn't commonly resisted or defended against at all.
You put Mind Link on top of those already awesome benefits with the already awesome survivability and it's already overkill. It's too much so it gets a longer recharge that you can't easily affect. The fortunata version is even longer recharge than the night widow because of their benefits over the night widow.
Mind Link is meant to be a hard to use buff/AoE panic button.
Mez protection alone is a game changer that Time Manipulation gets none of. A simple minion can stun a Time Manipulation character. Based on that alone you should shut up.
That sounds pretty epic to me even if Mind Link isn't the way you want it.
Also, you seem to think "epic" means "best archetype ever", but, despite how strong the widow is, it is only "epic" in so far as it has more utility than other archetypes and needs to be unlocked.
It is still balanced along with every other archetype as it should be.
Now, Time Manipulation is no better or worse than Radiation Emission or Kinetics, so why aren't you whining about them as well?
Just look at Radiation Infection and Enervating Field. Those can provide survivability rivaling what the widow has so why not whine about them?
What about the fact that Stealth plus a stealth proc IO is better than Mask Presence is alone for a widow?
Just stop whining for a nerf on a set that they are a lot harsher on than you will ever be, especially when you'll be whining for it to be buffed as soon as you play it and find it lacking something your widow has(like mez protection).
Now, can we get back to discussing the set on its own merit instead of trying to compare them using anecdotes instead of facts to destroy a set that is mostly how it should be?
Edit:
As for Time Manipulation, I'm pretty happy with what I see.
I really was hoping it would rival Radiation Emission for utility and strength because that is the only buff/debuff set I will ever use with it as good as it is.
I just hope all the powers will not be too difficult to use with most of them being clicks that need to be refreshed often. I still want and need to attack in there somewhere, not just debuff.
I am concerned about recharge of the powers and duration along with endurance cost though.
I really hope they have long enough duration to be useful for an entire spawn and can at least be made short enough recharge with SOs to be used every spawn.
We can only put one power on auto-click, so I hope these won't be a micro-managing nightmare like Robots/Force Field Masterminds were until the single target buffs were made AoE(though they still can be a mess).
Also, please do not balance these powers with a single IO in mind. They need to be perfectly playable with good old normal SOs. You should be able to solve the issues of the build at level 50 with plain SOs.
This is especially important with the restrictions of the invention system with Freedom.
P.S.
I love being a "crapper"(scrapper/corruptor) and getting into melee range to debuff, buff and deal damage. That is a really fun playstyle(partly because of the risk) and I am very glad to see the developers supporting it with this set.
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I wish I knew what you were talking about in regards to willpower, but I'm left scratching my head, "Cassandra?".|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I don't think any one power in the set could be considered, on its own, overpowered. I will say, however, that I had the same Cassandra problem with Time Manipulation that I did with Willpower, so I'm just going to do what I did with Willpower: roll one and enjoy it.
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If Time Manipulation is relatively easy to use(compared to things like the powers of kinetics or trick arrow that keep you almost too busy to attack), like willpower is compared to the less friendly energy aura, then I will be very happy with it and enjoy it no matter what anybody says.
I don't bow to others opinions, least of all when they whine about a set being too common for them to use despite them liking what it does. Why do people torture themselves by avoiding what they like for the sake of being supposedly "different" and actually being identical to other crazy people?
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There was some discussion about this in closed beta (and honestly, a little in the focus group preview) and the notion was that the "playstyle" classifications were not intended to specify what archetypes were *specific* to that playstyle, but rather, going in reverse, if you were a brand new player looking for an archetype and you had a particular kind of playstyle you wanted to exercise, which archetypes would be most likely to help you fulfill that role. |
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I disagree with the server classifications in a number of cases. Yes, VEATs provide some support but they aren't really a support AT, they're a damage AT that happens to provide support. I'll point out that according to the AT classifications Dominators are a "Pet" AT which I think is a hard argument to make.
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Almost by definition if you can argue against the classifications, the classification aren't for you. Its to inform people ignorant of what the archetypes do. So the "pet playstyle" doesn't list the archetypes that focus solely or predominantly on pets, it lists the archetypes most likely to allow you to play with pets in some fashion. The "support playstyle" listing doesn't list the "support archetypes" they list the archetypes that *can* offer support if that's the way you want to play.
To use a more lively example, theoretically speaking if a player wanted to play "a healer" the game would, if it supported that playstyle type, point the player to things like defenders, corruptors, controllers, and masterminds. Things with buff powersets. Is that because those things are "healers?" No, its because if you want to be a healer those are the best places to start. Of course, you'd also have to pick a powerset that actually *has* heals, but its the place to start.
That's all the playstyle section is. A place to start, for people who have no place to start. What do you want to do? Do you want to charge into melee? Do you want to have pets? Do you want to support allies on teams? Pick what you want to do, and the game will try to steer you into the choices that will best support that choice. That doesn't mean those things are exclusively the thing you're looking for. Only that what you are looking for is *one* of the things that archetype is considered good at in general.
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Cassandra.|
Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
I wish I knew what you were talking about in regards to willpower, but I'm left scratching my head, "Cassandra?".
If Time Manipulation is relatively easy to use(compared to things like Kinetics), like willpower is, then I will be very happy with it and enjoy it no matter what anybody says. I don't bow to others opinions, least of all when they whine about a set being too common for them to use despite them liking what it does. Why do people torture themselves by avoiding what they like for the sake of being supposedly "different" and actually being identical to other crazy people? |
To be frank, my batting average on calling powersets since Archery currently stands at 100%. Among my calls which went against the grain of the majority opinion are Willpower, Kinetic Melee, Cold Domination, Ninjitsu, and Electric Armor, off the top of my head.
I believe I called Time Manipulation, when I first saw it in closed beta "an undeserved gift from the gaming gods." Its amazingly strong, but not quite game-breakingly strong, so I will feel very safe rolling one and enjoying its almost ludicrous strength knowing that once it goes live it will be relatively safe from the nerf bat.
It is definitely a strong competitor to Kinetics and Rad, but its primary advantage is that it seems a better solo and leveling set for most skill level players. It actually feels like the mutant love child of trick arrow, radiation, and pain.
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I really hope it is that strong and yet balanced.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I believe I called Time Manipulation, when I first saw it in closed beta "an undeserved gift from the gaming gods." Its amazingly strong, but not quite game-breakingly strong, so I will feel very safe rolling one and enjoying its almost ludicrous strength knowing that once it goes live it will be relatively safe from the nerf bat.
It is definitely a strong competitor to Kinetics and Rad, but its primary advantage is that it seems a better solo and leveling set for most skill level players. It actually feels like the mutant love child of trick arrow, radiation, and pain. |
I absolutely love the concept and really want the power to go with it.
I'm still worried about what the durations, recharges and endurance costs will be, but I am less worried if you are impressed by it.
Edit:
I actually solo a lot, as I prefer, so this is very good news indeed.
@Arcanaville
When are they going to offer you a job?
I don't want them to though because you wouldn't be able to share all the juicy statistics and be our "this is broken" advocate then. It's just an obvious thought.
Edit:
Or, maybe you are already employed by them and I just missed the memo.
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She's answered this before and iirc it was something along the lines of the devs couldn't afford her / it would be a pay cut for her |
Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
@Arcanaville
When are they going to offer you a job? I don't want them to though because you wouldn't be able to share all the juicy statistics and be our "this is broken" advocate then. It's just an obvious thought. Edit: Or, maybe you are already employed by them and I just missed the memo. |
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also, I believe,|
Originally Posted by Djeannie
She's answered this before and iirc it was something along the lines of the devs couldn't afford her / it would be a pay cut for her
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-the commute from Hawaii would be a royal pain.
-as a person doing her stuff for free, she's free to do what analysis she wants, when she wants, at the pace she wants, rather than budgeting her time as Paragon Studios would like.
-and if she were a paid Dev, she wouldn't be anywhere near as free to post on the forums as she is as a player. (I think it's an open question as to whether she'd give in, say something snarky and get fired, or if her head would explode from sheer frustration when something particularly stupid was posted on the forums and she couldn't respond with the called-for level of surgical, precision, vicious logical dissection.)
I think we are all better off with Arcanaville as a free agent.
(Although, I was suddenly gifted with a massive fortune, I might be tempted to give Paragon Studios a million dollar grant to hire Arcanaville as a "special consultant" or something, so she could afford to spend MORE time on analysis of the game. But only if I get to read Arcanaville's critique of past employee's math skills once she gets a direct peek at all the actual spreadsheets and databases.)
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PBAoE Team, +To-Hit, +Defense(All), +Perception
Three slotted with SO's can perma this. It does not stack.
Zwill hates Blind the most out of all status effects.
.... ....
Really?
I sure hope that +To-Hit and +Defense buff is pretty low, otherwise this just makes me want to strangle a few people.
Hello? Mind Link? Cannot be slotted for Recharge Reduction, does not grant +Perception.
I swear, if Time Manipulation reminds me of something (even more so with this power) it's the Widow Epic Archetype. Yes, E-p-i-c Archetype. The Fortunatas are supposed to be somewhat like Seers, no? I mean, not totally so, but still; able to spy from afar and whatnot. Just with Scirocco's Patron Arc, you get to see their ability. It's barely if they can't -see- the future.
Oh and Zwill, just pick up Tactics if you're worried about -Perception effects. It'll also be easier to max your hit chance against +4.
You can also get Rectified Reticle (sp?) +Perception, if you want some overkill.
Edit: For more power choices, I remember someone mentioning the idea of having a travel power at level 1 (like at character creation). This would free up at least one power slot on most characters.
My idea for this is to have a 'temporary travel testing phase' which would be level 4 to 6. Basically, you get all (or choose one and can switch freely) at level 4, and once you reach level 6 you get to pick one for free.
I'd also throw in the idea of giving one for free at level 50 (or 40) too, since I'm part of those who like to have more than one (and yea, Ninja Run and Beast Run kind of turn off Combat Jumping, so it's too annoying to use in my case).
Just some ideas to make this post more constructive