Quote:
No, it doesn't. You're seeing images of the shaft that would ordinarily be visible because it is not behind to object refracted to be in front of the object. Nothing... *nothing* behind the object is visible.|
Originally Posted by Innovator
but the rest of the shaft that's behind the object does.
|
You know, stage magicians do stuff like this all the time and say "it's magic." Of course, you don't believe it's magic. You know there is sleight of hand or misdirection or mirrors or false walls.
Just because this charlatan/nut says "it's science", don't believe it without much better proof.
You're witnessing an illusion.
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Quote:
To be fair that isn't what he shows...|
Originally Posted by Innovator
Except the refraction of light from an object behind another so that it bends to cause the rear object's light to appear in front is exactly what he's demonstrating to a bunch of kids at an elementary school (who the video was made for). Of course the tip doesn't show as its light is bounced back by the object it is directly behind, but the rest of the shaft that's behind the object does.
You're taking this simple demonstration/experiment way out of proportion and context. Bending waves around an object is also the basis for the invisibility research by other scientists using metamaterials. |
He shows a refracted image that is perfectly visible that is displaced over an object that is front of another pat of it.
He's shown that poles and solid background can be used with a visual illusion to make things appear invisible to varying degrees.
Realistically he hasn't shown any more than that... but applying that level of technology would be more than enough to add a significant advantage to any military. Trees = poles. sky = solid color (for the most part). darkness = solid color (for the most part) Assumingly you could use this technology to make a better camo than what we currently use.
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Isn't that what I just said? |
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
No, it doesn't. You're seeing images of the shaft that would ordinarily be visible because it is not behind to object refracted to be in front of the object. Nothing... *nothing* behind the object is visible.
|
Quote:
|
You know, stage magicians do stuff like this all the time and say "it's magic." Of course, you don't believe it's magic. You know there is sleight of hand or misdirection or mirrors or false walls. Just because this charlatan/nut says "it's science", don't believe it without much better proof. You're witnessing an illusion. |
“There are children playing in the streets who could solve some of my top problems in physics, because they have modes of sensory perception that I lost long ago.” - J. Robert Oppenheimer
Marshall Barnes is known for making complex sciences fun and easy to grasp by Ohio kids through the experiments and demonstrations he does for schools and fairs.
Personally, I'm a bit curious about his STDTS tech, and hoping to seeing footage from tests from it just so I can see what it is he's actually done. I'm sure the simple explanation will turn out to be an oh..duh moment, with a slight...well...I could see where he's going with that. 
Quote:
Illusions aren't created by science. They are EXPLAINED with science. There's quite the difference between using a parlour trick to demonstrate a possible form of invisibility and actually rendering an object invisible from any perspective.|
Originally Posted by Innovator
It's an illusion created by science. Why do things have to be complex in order to be taken seriously?
|
Besides, if he truly had the knowledge to make something invisible, he'd be working for Skunk Works right now, not making youtube videos for school children.
Quote:
Wow...I'm not sure where you're getting all that from his statements. |
Originally Posted by Alpha-One
Illusions aren't created by science. They are EXPLAINED with science. There's quite the difference between using a parlour trick to demonstrate a possible form of invisibility and actually rendering an object invisible from any perspective.
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Quote:
| Besides, if he truly had the knowledge to make something invisible, he'd be working for Skunk Works right now, not making youtube videos for school children. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Innovator
Well according to his bio, he was offered a position as a weapons system evaluator for Armtech, but apparently he turned it down.
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Quote:
| Offered position as weapons system evaluator for ArmTec International in 1984, with the possibility of becoming weapon system designer based on my designs in a sci fi story I had written. Turned it down due to firm's foreign entanglements and lack of DoD involvement. |
By this point maybe you've noticed that most of us take his self-published biography with a rather large grain of salt. After all I could tell you that I was offered the position of Supreme Allied Commander of NATO but I turned it down. Does it mean it's true?
Seems to me there's a serious lack of critical thought mixed with a large dose of blind optimism here. Maybe go review the fundamentals of the scientific method instead of praying this techno-messiah has all the answers?
Me and my coworkers invented a Teleportation device. However, we haven't been able to demonstrate that it works. Seeing that it is just a piece of paper with the word Teleport inside a circle drawn in with marker. Also I have researched alternate dimensions where cybernetic organisms, the Force, phasers, and other technologies exist.
Researching and inventing mean nothing unless it is published in a peer-reviewed publication or there is a working prototype.
The first step in being sane is to admit that you are insane.
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I don't know, I've turned down lots of jobs myself. Hell, people don't believe me when I tell them about half the stuff I or my family has done, or when I tell them where I have worked or where I work now (doesn't make it not true). Did you know, my own bio used to appear quite a lot on the web, and that mentions of it used to beat Troy Hickman in a Google fight? Heheheh (though not anymore. You win Mr. Hickman...for now). |
Originally Posted by Alpha-One
By this point maybe you've noticed that most of us take his self-published biography with a rather large grain of salt. After all I could tell you that I was offered the position of Supreme Allied Commander of NATO but I turned it down. Does it mean it's true?
Seems to me there's a serious lack of critical thought mixed with a large dose of blind optimism here. Maybe go review the fundamentals of the scientific method instead of praying this techno-messiah has all the answers? |
If you go by my statements, you would see I don't have blind faith in him. I'm just not ready to knock his claims without actually seeing his tests. Others say they have and they say he's legit...I'm in the I don't know but interested in what he's got circle.
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Hate to break it to you but some of us like to be in control of our own ****. Heck there are people we know of on this site who are skilled in various places and DON'T work for some big name place and don't care to. And others that have problems with their work because they did.|
Originally Posted by Alpha-One
I said Skunk Works. Maybe you haven't heard of the branch of Lockheed Martin that's responsible for some of the biggest technological breakthroughs in aviation history, all for the benefit of Uncle Sam? Creators of the SR-71 Blackbird, U-2 Dragonlady, F-104 Starfighter and F-117 Nighthawk? Why isn't he working for them?
By this point maybe you've noticed that most of us take his self-published biography with a rather large grain of salt. After all I could tell you that I was offered the position of Supreme Allied Commander of NATO but I turned it down. Does it mean it's true? Seems to me there's a serious lack of critical thought mixed with a large dose of blind optimism here. Maybe go review the fundamentals of the scientific method instead of praying this techno-messiah has all the answers? |
I personally was offered a great deal but turned down what was being offered due to not liking the company or the direction that something i created was going.
As far as a "working prototype" apparently you haven't paid attention but there are several places where he says he does and where it says he's going to make a large demonstration. The fact that you haven't seen or heard of the technology or the prototype is not something that is uncommon. It's actually the norm. I know of things from very credible sources that would blow your mind, but you wouldn't believe me. The reason they are kept under wraps is because you don't want competitors or don't want people pushing a complete invention before you. Showing stuff off and making it known allows people to analyze what you're doing, try to recreate it, and usually push ahead due to new insight.
For example, the moment that it mentioned Electromagnetic field that effects space rather than time I have a general idea of what he began messing with and even know of other scientists that are messing about doing the same thing. I'm sure that if he told the same thing to Neil deGrasse Tyson and Tyson worked on it, he'd probably be in a race with him right now and perhaps Tyson would win.... especially since Tyson has worked on the time part for quite a while now.
Hope it works, I'd like to go visit my old pals out at Nebula-M78......
......what?
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Well apparently he gave a lecture about it at the Mars Conference. Did anyone here attend that?|
Originally Posted by starphoenix
Researching and inventing mean nothing unless it is published in a peer-reviewed publication or there is a working prototype.
|
Surfing the web about him, I find the style of self promotion this guy does and the weird proof collecting he put out about all his action is kind of a hoot!
If anything its been entertaining.
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If he did so, why is his lecture not listed on their convention schedule?|
Originally Posted by Innovator
Well apparently he gave a lecture about it at the Mars Conference. Did anyone here attend that?
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I highly doubt that anyone anywhere attended it.
Quote:
Pheasant Ridge I 3:30 - 4:00 M. Barnes - Electromagnetic Field Propulsion.|
Originally Posted by Samothrake
If he did so, why is his lecture not listed on their convention schedule?
I highly doubt that anyone anywhere attended it. |
Hmmm…a major failure in observation ability due to extreme enthusiasm for skeptism. This is a fascinating phenomenon. /Takes notes.
Ah. I see.
I did a ctrl+F for Marshall name, and forgot to do one for the Barnes name.
Though I do still wonder why we can't find some sort of transcript or video of the lecture. Perhaps they are still running it through filters for YouTube.
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Come back and talk to me when you can show who's actually a scientist on this message board. I can Google this guy and come back with numerous hits, quite a bit of them that show praise and many on actual science and engineering sites. So he seems to possess some manner of credibility. He has an established history in his field and apparently has done much to help children have fun learning science. He's not some random kook that has spontaneously appeared a month ago; there's a lot of past documentation that has him involved in other projects, so he's been around.|
Originally Posted by Quasadu
Come back and talk to me when he's taken seriously by a scientist.
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http://www.google.com/#q=marshall+ba...r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.
I suggest the wait and see approach rather than just judging before you've seen anything.
Pics from Proxima Centaurii or it didn't happen...
Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.
Quote:
Again, I didn't say science blogs and websites. I didn't say schoolchildren. I said a scientist. Show me a paper with his name on it that was published in a journal. |
Originally Posted by Scythus
Come back and talk to me when you can show who's actually a scientist on this message board. I can Google this guy and come back with numerous hits, quite a bit of them that show praise and many on actual science and engineering sites. So he seems to possess some manner of credibility. He has an established history in his field and apparently has done much to help children have fun learning science. He's not some random kook that has spontaneously appeared a month ago; there's a lot of past documentation that has him involved in other projects, so he's been around.
http://www.google.com/#q=marshall+ba...r_gc.r_pw.r_cp. I suggest the wait and see approach rather than just judging before you've seen anything. |
Everything in the first two pages of that search was something he wrote about how awesome he is, or something a blogger wrote about how awesome he is, or something about a DJ with the same name (or maybe that's the same guy, too?).
So what was your link supposed to prove?
Edit: I did a quick search of my own:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...rive%22&d=PTXT
These are all the results which come up in a patent search for "warp drive" and none of them belong to Barnes. Most are about yarn. One is for an aerospace vehicle but is, agian, not his.
If he is an engineer and an inventor, what are his patents? I would like to look them up.
PS: Searching by inventor name for his name turns up nothing. A search for "STDTS" turned up no results - is there someplace where he spells out what STDTS stands for? I didn't see it.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
Quote:
"Spacetime Dilator Transmitter System"|
Originally Posted by Quasadu
PS: Searching by inventor name for his name turns up nothing. A search for "STDTS" turned up no results - is there someplace where he spells out what STDTS stands for? I didn't see it.
|
Took a lot of digging to finally find a spot where it was fully spelled out. Take that however you will.
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
Quote:
really? I just typed in STDTS into google >.>
|
Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
"Spacetime Dilator Transmitter System"
Took a lot of digging to finally find a spot where it was fully spelled out. Take that however you will. |
Quote:
Thanks.|
Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
"Spacetime Dilator Transmitter System"
|
Unsurprisingly, that turns up no patent results either.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
Go ask these people who he is...
"Marshall Barnes has done some important research".
- JEAN CLAUDE BA, PhD, Professor of Physics COLUMBUS STATE COMMUNITY COLLEGE March 1997
"To prove his invention Barnes took me with him on an experiment, along State Route 104 from Route 56...We made the trip...without the STDTS turned on in 24 minutes. Coming back, he turned his machine on and I watched the speedometer closely...Back at Route 56 Barnes cheered when we checked our watches. We did it in 22 minutes.
- MIKE PRATT, THE CIRCLEVILLE HERALD March 2002
"I think there's something wrong with the way we view time. I like
Marshall's approach and have no problem with it."
- BERNARD MULLIGAN, PhD,
Professor of Physics THE
OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY Feb. 2004
"I would like to thank Marshall Barnes for taking the time to talk
to my CS 201 course on Time Machines. His presentation generated a
lot of positive feedback and discussion from the class.
The class of around thirty five students seemed unanimously pleased
and were impressed with his poise and enthusiasm for the topic. The
following class period, we discussed at length his insights into the
use of videotapes and music as a "way back" to the past (or a past).
We compared his work with that of Roland Barthes in his text, Camera
Lucida and with our impressions of photography as a memory aid and
record of the past garnered from a photography exhibit the students
attended at Columbus Museum of Art.
Personally, I have rarely seen someone with the passion that Marshall
Barnes displayed for his work."
- SABRA WEBER, PhD, Associate Professor Anthropology Department, THE
OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY May 2004
"An ongoing, online experiment created by Dr. Peter Naish of the Open University, in conjunction with BBC Science, and hosted at OPEN UNIVERSITY has been cited as being flawed with "worthless results" by researcher and conceptual theorist, Marshall Barnes...The initial hypothesis of the test is that extraverts will see the cube flip more times when asked than introverts, and introverts will see it flip more when asked to just passively view it than extraverts. According to the results online so far, this doesn't seem to be the case. Marshall claims to know why."
- NANCY R. FENN, THE INTROVERTZ COACH August 2004
"Later this month, Marshall Barnes will present a scientific paper at the 7th annual International Mars Society Conference in Chicago...Marshall Barnes...truly thinks outside the box...The unique mix of creative thinking and science has enabled Barnes to come up with some interesting technological theories.
- A.M. WHITAKER, COLUMBUS COMMUNICATOR August 2004
"Marshall Barnes has proven himself to be a bright, enthusiastic, and
ever-inquiring mind. Time and time again, he has come up with inventive
ideas that take us all to the edges of our imagination. Any program
initiated by him will be well worth attending."
- FRED ALAN WOLF, PhD, physicist, author (TAKING THE QUANTUM LEAP, others), cinema star (WHAT THE BLEEP DO WE KNOW? , AMERICAN VIDEO DIARY) March 2005
"Marshall was able to engage and involve the students in the
SuperScience presentation despite their being antsy about the near
close of the school year".
- LINDA LEE KENNEDY, Science Teacher, Briggs High School MAY 2005
"Students were excited and had many questions throughout his
presentation. Marshall encouraged them to ask a question when it came
up instead of waiting until the conclusion - students took him up on
it.
- JACK MINOT, Physics Teacher Bexley High School May 2005
"Marshall has an excellent physics background and was able to adjust
his explanations and answers to student's questions at the
appropriate level that students can understand".
- CRAIG KRAMER, Physics Teacher, Bexley High School May 2005
"Barnes...believes bringing his presentation entitled "SuperScience for High School Physics" will get students interested in areas of physics they never thought possible."
- SHANNON DILLMAN, WESTSIDE MESSENGER June 2005
"Marshall Barnes shows off a photograph of the Santa Maria that he took...bending light to cause the ship to appear to disappear. The photo will be a part of an exhibit at the Santa Maria Visitor Education Center in downtown Columbus."
- TRI-VILLAGE NEWS August 2007
Quote:
What else does he say? "Has done some important research" doesn't really carry much weight out of context. |
Originally Posted by Durakken
"Marshall Barnes has done some important research".
- JEAN CLAUDE BA, PhD, Professor of Physics COLUMBUS STATE COMMUNITY COLLEGE March 1997 |
Quote:
|
"To prove his invention Barnes took me with him on an experiment, along State Route 104 from Route 56...We made the trip...without the STDTS turned on in 24 minutes. Coming back, he turned his machine on and I watched the speedometer closely...Back at Route 56 Barnes cheered when we checked our watches. We did it in 22 minutes. - MIKE PRATT, THE CIRCLEVILLE HERALD March 2002 |
Quote:
|
"I think there's something wrong with the way we view time. I like Marshall's approach and have no problem with it." - BERNARD MULLIGAN, PhD, Professor of Physics THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY Feb. 2004 |
Quote:
|
"I would like to thank Marshall Barnes for taking the time to talk to my CS 201 course on Time Machines. His presentation generated a lot of positive feedback and discussion from the class. The class of around thirty five students seemed unanimously pleased and were impressed with his poise and enthusiasm for the topic. The following class period, we discussed at length his insights into the use of videotapes and music as a "way back" to the past (or a past). We compared his work with that of Roland Barthes in his text, Camera Lucida and with our impressions of photography as a memory aid and record of the past garnered from a photography exhibit the students attended at Columbus Museum of Art. Personally, I have rarely seen someone with the passion that Marshall Barnes displayed for his work." - SABRA WEBER, PhD, Associate Professor Anthropology Department, THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY May 2004 |
Quote:
|
"An ongoing, online experiment created by Dr. Peter Naish of the Open University, in conjunction with BBC Science, and hosted at OPEN UNIVERSITY has been cited as being flawed with "worthless results" by researcher and conceptual theorist, Marshall Barnes...The initial hypothesis of the test is that extraverts will see the cube flip more times when asked than introverts, and introverts will see it flip more when asked to just passively view it than extraverts. According to the results online so far, this doesn't seem to be the case. Marshall claims to know why." - NANCY R. FENN, THE INTROVERTZ COACH August 2004 |
Quote:
|
"Later this month, Marshall Barnes will present a scientific paper at the 7th annual International Mars Society Conference in Chicago...Marshall Barnes...truly thinks outside the box...The unique mix of creative thinking and science has enabled Barnes to come up with some interesting technological theories. - A.M. WHITAKER, COLUMBUS COMMUNICATOR August 2004 |
Quote:
|
"Marshall Barnes has proven himself to be a bright, enthusiastic, and ever-inquiring mind. Time and time again, he has come up with inventive ideas that take us all to the edges of our imagination. Any program initiated by him will be well worth attending." - FRED ALAN WOLF, PhD, physicist, author (TAKING THE QUANTUM LEAP, others), cinema star (WHAT THE BLEEP DO WE KNOW? , AMERICAN VIDEO DIARY) March 2005 |
Quote:
|
"Marshall was able to engage and involve the students in the SuperScience presentation despite their being antsy about the near close of the school year". - LINDA LEE KENNEDY, Science Teacher, Briggs High School MAY 2005 "Students were excited and had many questions throughout his presentation. Marshall encouraged them to ask a question when it came up instead of waiting until the conclusion - students took him up on it. - JACK MINOT, Physics Teacher Bexley High School May 2005 "Marshall has an excellent physics background and was able to adjust his explanations and answers to student's questions at the appropriate level that students can understand". - CRAIG KRAMER, Physics Teacher, Bexley High School May 2005 "Barnes...believes bringing his presentation entitled "SuperScience for High School Physics" will get students interested in areas of physics they never thought possible." - SHANNON DILLMAN, WESTSIDE MESSENGER June 2005 |
Quote:
|
"Marshall Barnes shows off a photograph of the Santa Maria that he took...bending light to cause the ship to appear to disappear. The photo will be a part of an exhibit at the Santa Maria Visitor Education Center in downtown Columbus." - TRI-VILLAGE NEWS August 2007 |
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
Quote:
Please, can we not all agree these are just photos of him holding up a plastic sheet between the camera and the boat? This does nothing towards actually making anything invisible or doing any kind of research. I'm beginning to wonder if his warp drive presentation is nothing more than using a watch that runs slow to make you're travel time appear shorter.
|
Originally Posted by Durakken
"Marshall Barnes shows off a photograph of the Santa Maria that he took...bending light to cause the ship to appear to disappear. The photo will be a part of an exhibit at the Santa Maria Visitor Education Center in downtown Columbus."
- TRI-VILLAGE NEWS August 2007 |
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
The image we see of the pencil supposedly be made visible through the black cap is just the image of the pencil we can still see overlapping the black cap because of the refraction strata in the overlay. Slow the video down and notice that the image of the *tip* of the pencil disappears completely. All we're seeing is the bright yellow of the base of the pencil supposedly behind the cap.
If he put a marble behind the cap such that no other part of the marble extended past the cap, then there would be no image of the marble leaking through the cap.
He is either so batpancake insane that he doesn't know what he's talking about, or, he's relying on people he's demonstrating this stuff to be be so batpancake gullible or batpancake ignorant of basic science that they can't recognize he's talking gibberish.
You're taking this simple demonstration/experiment way out of proportion and context. Bending waves around an object is also the basis for the invisibility research by other scientists using metamaterials.