Does your secondary REALLY matter as an Empath?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

I know of one person on Virtue who has an Emp/Eng Defender. Has only the base attack, unslotted. Picked up the Medicine pool, leadership I believe... More or less to be a 'Pure Healer', which she's quite effective at.

More or less one of those 'concept' builds.


 

Posted

The answer to any question regarding selection of Defender secondaries is almost always going to be, "Just pick Sonic," for me.

Even if you pick ONLY the T1 power and just throw in a single Accuracy SO, it'll still be a sweet -Res debuff to be used on bosses, EBs, and AVs. If you give the set some love, you'll be able to turn enemy defense into mush when you aren't healing.


Too many alts to list.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Grumpums View Post
The answer to any question regarding selection of Defender secondaries is almost always going to be, "Just pick Sonic," for me.
I can pretty much agree with this, though I'd also add Ice to that. I'm rather fond of */Ice/Psi on defenders as I have three holds to throw out.

On the other end of the spectrum, I will never take Rad. Ever. You couldn't pay me to play Rad on a Defender. Blaster, maybe, Defender, never.


 

Posted

I'm going to go back on what I said earlier in this thread.

Empathy is special, but not in the way new players think. What makes Empathy special are its quirks:

  • 9 out of 9 powers are clicks. No toggles, no autos.
  • 9 out of 9 powers are self-targeting or ally-targeting. No enemy or location targeted powers.
  • Low level powers are more situational than high level powers.
None of this means you need a special build for Empathy, or to ignore your secondary. It actually means:
  • 9 clicks: Hasten and recharge bonuses are your new BFF.
  • 9 self/ally targets: Shift-1~8, a set of ally targeting keybinds similar to Tab/ShiftTab/CtrlTab, and the ability to switch rapidly between ally and enemy targeting is essential. Left click targeting won't cut it.
  • Low level situational powers: Don't play the same at level 50 as you did at level 2.


 

Posted

I agree, especially regarding the lack of enemy targeting powers. Empathy is unique in that it is the only Buff set in the game just like Trick Arrow is the only Debuff set. All of the other sets combine Buffs and Debuffs.


 

Posted

Since healing and buffing from an emp defender are less necessary, in general, later in the game as opposed to early on, I think that's a good reason to take more attacks. You could always respec into more attacks later in the game, of course. At the higher levels, you'll find yourself having much more time to attack. On my lvl 50 emp/arch defender, I always used my attacks in addition to healing and buffing...but in the later stages of the game, I'd often be on teams that didn't need much healing or buffing and I could just fire away attacks for the most part.

The funny thing about the "healbots" or whatever you want to call them, they rarely ever use CM or Fort. If you're not going to take any attacks, then you better be using ALL of your primaries. I can't tell you how many times I ended up with a 2nd emp on the team and I'd keep getting mezzed. I'm keeping 7 people, including the other emp, on CM at all times (while still using all of my attacks) and they can't even keep just me on CM. You'd think after three times of "zzz" or "CM please" that they'd figure it out but usually it would require a tell practically begging them to please keep CM on me and I'll handle CM for the rest of the team, lol. Same with Fort. I'm keeping Fort on 3 people at all times and they don't even use it. Or better yet, we enter the mission, they put CM and Fort on the Tank (the person who needs either of them least) one time and that's their only use of CM or Fort for the rest of the mission, haha.

At the lower levels, if you properly use CM and Fort, your teammates will love you. Plus, you'll need to spend less time healing because those squishies will take less damage since they are getting mezzed less and have boosts to their defense.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PBAtty View Post
Since healing and buffing from an emp defender are less necessary, in general, later in the game as opposed to early on, I think that's a good reason to take more attacks. You could always respec into more attacks later in the game, of course. At the higher levels, you'll find yourself having much more time to attack. On my lvl 50 emp/arch defender, I always used my attacks in addition to healing and buffing...but in the later stages of the game, I'd often be on teams that didn't need much healing or buffing and I could just fire away attacks for the most part.

The funny thing about the "healbots" or whatever you want to call them, they rarely ever use CM or Fort. If you're not going to take any attacks, then you better be using ALL of your primaries. I can't tell you how many times I ended up with a 2nd emp on the team and I'd keep getting mezzed. I'm keeping 7 people, including the other emp, on CM at all times (while still using all of my attacks) and they can't even keep just me on CM. You'd think after three times of "zzz" or "CM please" that they'd figure it out but usually it would require a tell practically begging them to please keep CM on me and I'll handle CM for the rest of the team, lol. Same with Fort. I'm keeping Fort on 3 people at all times and they don't even use it. Or better yet, we enter the mission, they put CM and Fort on the Tank (the person who needs either of them least) one time and that's their only use of CM or Fort for the rest of the mission, haha.

At the lower levels, if you properly use CM and Fort, your teammates will love you. Plus, you'll need to spend less time healing because those squishies will take less damage since they are getting mezzed less and have boosts to their defense.
Ok, this not using cm, fort, AB thing gets me, too. Like you I cm the whole team (squishies, anyway), and when another emp is on the team and I have to beg for cm . . . grrr. I even had one tell me she didn't know what I was "whining" about because she wasn't getting slept or held. Um, right, that's because I kept her cm stacked (and I told her as much and asked if she'd prefer that I just cm her when she buffed me . . . amazing how quickly she decided that cm wasn't so bad after all).


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahliah View Post
Ok, this not using cm, fort, AB thing gets me, too. Like you I cm the whole team (squishies, anyway), and when another emp is on the team and I have to beg for cm . . . grrr. I even had one tell me she didn't know what I was "whining" about because she wasn't getting slept or held. Um, right, that's because I kept her cm stacked (and I told her as much and asked if she'd prefer that I just cm her when she buffed me . . . amazing how quickly she decided that cm wasn't so bad after all).
That's too funny....love it. Yeah, at the lower levels, I'm CMing everyone...but once the melee people get their mez protection, it's even worse because you really only need to CM just the squishies which should be even easier. Totally forgot about AB getting neglected by the healbots too, especially controllers burning through end like crazy or giving it to a blaster before they nuke and crash.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PBAtty View Post
That's too funny....love it. Yeah, at the lower levels, I'm CMing everyone...but once the melee people get their mez protection, it's even worse because you really only need to CM just the squishies which should be even easier. Totally forgot about AB getting neglected by the healbots too, especially controllers burning through end like crazy or giving it to a blaster before they nuke and crash.
Good point, I cm lowbie melee types until they get mez protection, too. And yeah, if they're not using cm, chances are super high that they're using fort AND AB on the tank, if they're using it at all. *sigh*


 

Posted

You can even give melee types the option to turn off crappy mez protection toggles (Wet Ice, ahem) to save on endurance and attack moar.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent View Post
You can even give melee types the option to turn off crappy mez protection toggles (Wet Ice, ahem) to save on endurance and attack moar.
What in the world is wrong with Wet Ice? Just curious.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent View Post
You can even give melee types the option to turn off crappy mez protection toggles (Wet Ice, ahem) to save on endurance and attack moar.
Yeah, I'd be curious to know what it is about WI that's crappy. It costs the same endurance as Unyielding, provides you with DDR, some resists and a tiny bit of defense. Seems like a fairly solid power to me.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent View Post
You can even give melee types the option to turn off crappy mez protection toggles (Wet Ice, ahem) to save on endurance and attack moar.


Yep. Still not frozen.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp View Post


Yep. Still not frozen.
heh

CM only protects against immob, disorient, hold, sleep, confusion, and fear, and because most melee toggles that "cover" these also provide other protection (notably against psionics, but also fire, nrg, etc. defense), I don't actually offer to do this. However, I am more than happy to slap cm on any melee who's trying to save on end; I'm cm'ing others, so what's one more? , and I'm sure that most emps would feel the same way (um, not the healbots that we're talking about, of course, they don't use cm unless asked, often repeatedly), so just ask / notify the emp that this is your wish.


 

Posted

Unless I know my melee teammates, I usually CM everyone initially. I've played every AT...well, all but Stalkers, and things happen. Sometimes you overextend your END and a toggle drops. Sometimes enough mezzes actually burn through your defenses. Sometimes you accidentally hit the wrong button. It's life. Honestly, it's usually easier to simply keep CM up on everyone than to pick through the 8-person team. Now, if they make it AoE, it would be golden!

Dreaming: When I can get my +460% recharge and make my RA's perma, I will be happy. ;-)


7+ year vet with too many alts to list...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feint_of_Heart View Post
Unless I know my melee teammates, I usually CM everyone initially. I've played every AT...well, all but Stalkers, and things happen. Sometimes you overextend your END and a toggle drops. Sometimes enough mezzes actually burn through your defenses. Sometimes you accidentally hit the wrong button. It's life. Honestly, it's usually easier to simply keep CM up on everyone than to pick through the 8-person team. Now, if they make it AoE, it would be golden!

Dreaming: When I can get my +460% recharge and make my RA's perma, I will be happy. ;-)
I wish they'd make cm AoE like sb, bubs, etc., but there are build "purists" who really resent cm (if it were AoE, they could just visit Null the Gull). I don't play melee, but I've had enough of them get their feathers ruffles when I used to cm them. The only melee that seems to sometimes need it is brutes, at least from what I've seen, so I keep an eye on them and drop it on them if they do get slept (usually the one that seems to get through). If that happens, I add them to my cm roster.

In the absence of AoE cm, key binds work for me, so much easier (and faster) than clicking down the team list.


 

Posted

I think it matters. Not as much as if it were an Empath controller, but still matters. Often enough you'll find your team doing fine without heals or with the buffs alone. What will you do then? Stand still, doing nada?

I'd grab a secondary that could add either more survivability or help out with damage. Or anything that fits a concept, really. I can't imagine myself playing any sort of Defender without using blasts.


@False Fiction - Virtue / Defiant

Current projects - [Glaciologist - Ill/Cold Troller] [Cloudshaper - Storm/Dark Def] [Harald Wartooth - Elec/Psi Domi]

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahliah View Post
I wish they'd make cm AoE like sb, bubs, etc., but there are build "purists" who really resent cm (if it were AoE, they could just visit Null the Gull). I don't play melee, but I've had enough of them get their feathers ruffles when I used to cm them. The only melee that seems to sometimes need it is brutes, at least from what I've seen, so I keep an eye on them and drop it on them if they do get slept (usually the one that seems to get through). If that happens, I add them to my cm roster.

In the absence of AoE cm, key binds work for me, so much easier (and faster) than clicking down the team list.
Why in the hell would anyone be annoyed that you used Clear Mind on them? It's not like it has a long recharge time or anything so you aren't wasting it.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell_NA View Post
Why in the hell would anyone be annoyed that you used Clear Mind on them? It's not like it has a long recharge time or anything so you aren't wasting it.
It's simple, really. People are people.


7+ year vet with too many alts to list...

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feint_of_Heart View Post
It's simple, really. People are people.
So why should it be, you and I should get along so awfully?

Ah, Depeche Mode.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cold_X View Post
Anyone who plays an Empathy by doing nothing but healing and buffing is playing that powerset completely wrong IMO and I don't want to play with them. The "Pure" empathy concept is ridiculous and should only ever be applied in PvP, and that's old school PvP teaming. Nowadays you could probably squeeze attacks into your toon just for zone.

Any empathy who doesn't take their attacks is not only hurting themselves but the team as well.
Then I must have killed my team when I did those two Keyes Saturday, because I don't think I used any of my attack powers with my emp. Especially when I was escorting the stone tank who was taunting Anti-Matter.

But 'yes', I am worthless to my team because I choice to get my Fortitude off every 15 seconds, Adrenalin Boost every 78 seconds and my auras every 133 seconds. Of course that is while flying, and casting Heal Other, Clean Mind, or using my Healing Aura when necessary. Not even counting Resurrect, cus most folks when straight too the hospital before I could even get in range.

If only I used any of my six attacks from Energy Blast.... we could completed the Keyes Trial just a bit earlier.

Woe to me....


/Empaths can turn three people into Jesus, one person into God, and everyone else into the twelve apostles.~Angry_Citizen

Don't you know that discussion of power selection/slotting can ONLY be based on hearsay, rumor, idle speculation, and bald-faced lies??!? ~Elf_Sniper

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fate_Corinth View Post
So why should it be, you and I should get along so awfully?

Ah, Depeche Mode.
Wow, that really brought back some memories! LOL! Great...now I can't get that song out of my head! Next up...Journey or The Police! :-) Thanks Fate!


7+ year vet with too many alts to list...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkpup View Post
Then I must have killed my team when I did those two Keyes Saturday, because I don't think I used any of my attack powers with my emp. Especially when I was escorting the stone tank who was taunting Anti-Matter.

But 'yes', I am worthless to my team because I choice to get my Fortitude off every 15 seconds, Adrenalin Boost every 78 seconds and my auras every 133 seconds. Of course that is while flying, and casting Heal Other, Clean Mind, or using my Healing Aura when necessary. Not even counting Resurrect, cus most folks when straight too the hospital before I could even get in range.

If only I used any of my six attacks from Energy Blast.... we could completed the Keyes Trial just a bit earlier.

Woe to me....
No one is saying you're worthless to a team if you don't blast. Well, no one reasonable at least. It's just that if you're not blasting at all, you're not contributing as much as you could be.

It's more than possible to be on top of the buffs and heals as well as blasting. The trial teams are obviously not going to be gimped if they don't have your added damage. It's more the principle of the thing. If you can support a team/trial fully as well as contribute damage (which anyone can), why wouldn't you?

On big teams the blasting takes a backseat to the supporting, naturally. But there is no good reason why the blasting should be neglected entirely.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silas View Post
On big teams the blasting takes a backseat to the supporting, naturally. But there is no good reason why the blasting should be neglected entirely.
If nothing else, the Empath should be able to fight back in case they need to rescue someone, and would be under too much fire to survive doing so.


'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feint_of_Heart View Post
Wow, that really brought back some memories! LOL! Great...now I can't get that song out of my head! Next up...Journey or The Police! :-) Thanks Fate!
It's because I <3 you. :3

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