Your primary is going to be the biggest variable in cost and effectiveness, IMO, since attacks all use the same basic slotting.
You can make an effective tank on common IOs/SOs with any primary, but if for instance you are looking for a tank that could soft-cap defense with just commons/SOs, Shield Defense or Ice Armor can both get to within 1% of soft-capping. Of course Stone Armor can be exceptionally sturdy with no set IOs; you could get reach around 43% defense and 80% resistance in Granite and about 41% defense outside of Granite.
The other sets would be fine too, but they use different forms of mitigation rather than primarily defense. For instance, Invul can hard-cap S/L resistance and gets a substantial amount of defense on just SOs, which is very effective. Electric Armor can hard-cap Energy resistance and get around 79% S/L resistance, which isn't bad either.
Why don't you tell us what primary or primaries you're interested in and we can discuss what the pluses and minuses are for them using just SOs. Most tanks can be built cheaply and effectively so we'll need a little more guidance on what you'd like.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
Alrighty, Well I enjoy the WillPower and Invulnerability primaries alot. The Shield I was told was going to be expensive. I like the stone defense but people say the slowness and recharge aren't worth it. Though I really want to make a Solid willpower since it has alot of goodies in it like a minor health and a minor stamina to stack ontop of Health and Stamina lol.
My secondary, well Im not doing the over used SS or Mace or Axe, but trying out the Energy melee since that will pair well with Willpower. Plus energy is almost all AoE. But I want to know which can be done cheaply cause as I said i don't have alot of Inf.
Take the advice you were given in the game for a grain of salt. A lot of those people didn't know what they were talking about and only gave you opinions with no facts to back them up.
First, you should realize that you can afford any build you like. Purple sets and PvP sets are probably beyond the effort you want to put into a character, but anything else is in your reach. Any character 25 or over can purchase Luck of the Gambler global recharge recipes for two alignment merits, which sold for over 100 million crafted last time I checked. Obtaining tips goes fast if you can kill level 25ish bosses in Terra Volta. If not, level 20ish mobs can be found in Dark Astoria in fairly large packs, but the bosses that drop tips more often are fairly rare. If you have enough stealth, or a durable character like a Tanker that can run past things, you can run through 5 tip missions in 15 minutes. Do that on a few characters a day and you'll be rolling in billions of INF in a couple weeks.
Granite Armor from the Stone Armor set is the best single source of survivability in the game. Yes, it suffers from recharge, movement, and damage penalties, but the first two can be overcome with invention sets. If you just want to be unkillable and don't care about your killing speed because you always team with others, nothing can beat the durability gained from Granite Armor.
Shield Defense is the cheapest set available to Tankers if you want to be somewhat tough to kill. Defense isn't quite as good as resistance, but you can reach 45% defense (the important soft-cap) with one invention set and one inexpensive unique invention. I am referring to the Gaussian's set and a Steadfast Protection 3% defense IO, which would be in many builds. Anything else you put in the build is going to have minimal impact on your survivability.
Willpower's version of Health and Stamina are actually better than the Health and Stamina given to you for free at level 2.
Both Willpower and Invulnerability are fairly easy sets to play. They gain most of their defenses early and can tank well very quickly. However, both sets only perform at their best when you add (expensive?) invention set builds, unlike Stone Armor and Shield Defense which can be made to perform at or near their best before obtaining full invention set builds.
Any set you choose will be able to tank end-game content if you invest enough in it.
Quote:
I don't know who told you that Shield Defense would be expensive to make effectively, but IMO they're dead wrong. High-end builds for sets that have little or no defense tend to be expensive because you need specific very desirable recipes to soft-cap. Primarily defense sets like Shield and Ice are inexpensive to soft-cap, but since it's not possible to add much additional resistance to a defense set you won't be able to improve their survivability significantly with sets. Of course, you can spend tons on influence on purples and unique IOs, but most of those will benefit all primaries equally. |
Originally Posted by Bowntez
Alrighty, Well I enjoy the WillPower and Invulnerability primaries alot. The Shield I was told was going to be expensive. I like the stone defense but people say the slowness and recharge aren't worth it. Though I really want to make a Solid willpower since it has alot of goodies in it like a minor health and a minor stamina to stack ontop of Health and Stamina lol.
|
In any case, a cheap effective WP build is quite possible, it just won't reach the really ridiculous levels of durability that a high-end WP defense build would. Just be aware that it tends to be more difficult to hold aggro with WP tanks because their aggro aura is a lot less effective than the ones in other sets. So if you plan this to be a team-only tank WP might not be the best choice.
Quote:
| My secondary, well Im not doing the over used SS or Mace or Axe, but trying out the Energy melee since that will pair well with Willpower. Plus energy is almost all AoE. But I want to know which can be done cheaply cause as I said i don't have alot of Inf. |
As I mentioned in my first post, cost-wise the secondary is mostly irrelevent if you're not planning to use set IOs. Pick the one that you like.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
Ice works on SOs just fine and even if you do invest it in you don't really need to go crazy since it benefits the least from it.
Quote:
Actually, Shield is quite CHEAP to softcap.|
Originally Posted by Bowntez
The Shield I was told was going to be expensive.
|
Just on SO's alone, you get nearly 40% (39.7) positional defense with Weave and Combat Jumping.
Add a Steadfast Res/Def and you're at 43%. If you can't softcap from there with a couple cheap sets, you're doing it wrong.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
For massive durability on SOs alone: Stone...
For less massive durability on SOs alone, but not a lot less and no penalties that will slow down your killing speed if you plan to solo a fair amount: Invul...
Runner up: WP. The regen combined with decent resists and def which can be had without any IOs using only WP and pool powers is pretty nice.
WP is pretty durable on SOs especially with tough and weave
Throw in a Steadfast +3% Defense
And 4 -5 sets of Smashing Haymaker (+1.88 Smashing/lethal each)
And you can do very well on a modest budget with a WP tank
Once you get more Inf you can replace the smashing Haymaker sets one at a time with Kinetic Combat. (+3.75 smash/lethal) and not have to respec since they are both 4 slot sets to get the def bonus.
Thinking on it - if you did the same thing on an Invul or a Stone - you probably wouldnt be in bad shape either. Well except that granite is still slower than a Ford Pinto with flat tires. (Unlike WP I havent played those to/at 50 though so its speculation)
Quote:
Well, I have read that the prevailing wisdom on the Scrapper forum seems to be "Soft-capping a Shield Scrapper [with high recharge and other fancy gear] will be expensive." But that's a Scrapper, not a Tanker, and you aren't contemplating loading up on +recharge either if you're looking for affordability. People were probably just repeating what they'd heard about Scrappers.
|
Originally Posted by Finduilas
I don't know who told you that Shield Defense would be expensive to make effectively, but IMO they're dead wrong.
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Quote:
Yes, I wondered whether that might be a reason why the OP was told that. Soft-capping Shield Defense on a Brute or Scrapper would be much more expensive than on a Tank. |
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Well, I have read that the prevailing wisdom on the Scrapper forum seems to be "Soft-capping a Shield Scrapper [with high recharge and other fancy gear] will be expensive." But that's a Scrapper, not a Tanker, and you aren't contemplating loading up on +recharge either if you're looking for affordability. People were probably just repeating what they'd heard about Scrappers.
|
There also sometimes seems to be the attitude on the forums that if you don't build for high recharge and all the other extras you might as well stay home.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
I'll throw out there that Invuln is relatively cheap to softcap to S/L while maintaining good resistances to other damage types (Psionic aside). It's not dirt cheap, but the cost is low enough that it won't set you back that far - and the tradeoff is amazing.
In case you end up running with Invuln, here's Call Me Awesome's guide to soft-capping an Invuln Tank on the cheap:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=126983
While the builds presented aren't cheap, I think anyone looking to answer survivability questions should check out this thread and read it in its entirety
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=256072
Quote:
I'd recommend cold war surplus is the way to go for a cheap tank. | I am looking for a Cheap Tank |
Quietly leaves thread head hanging in shame being sure not to trip over the tumbleweeds
Just want to say I dont mean offence or insult, but making a cheap Tanker I don't know as well as the others. Sorry.
Edit-
I should have read you wanted only basic IOs but hope this gives you ideas on next step up (baby step up from basic IOs)
____________________________________
This post gave me a good excuse to tinker on mids for a couple of minutes...always need an excuse to work on my mids-kung-fu.
Anyway, I always think of shield as a good place to start when building a budget tanker. For secondary, I like dark melee b/c it adds a self heal, a nice endurance recovery tool, and one of my favorite build-up tools in the game. I attempted to build a fairly cheap Shield/Dark Melee tank using IOs that wont break the bank (Please note that I intend for OP to buy recipes and make them). Some of the IO's like GOTA and Eradications can be somewhat pricey but if you shop for recipes they can be had fairly cheap if you are willing to wait a week or so.
Additionally, once more expensive IOs are dropped into Shield/DM it goes from being tough to a superstar. At this point you could drop physical perfection, conserve energy and pick up Fireball or whatever else suits your playstyle. For the time being, AAO, Sould Drain, Shield Charge sounds like a potent/fun AOE to mix in with DM's solid single target Damage.
Code:
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Quote:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942|
Originally Posted by Bowntez
Hey all,
I am looking for a Cheap Tank build that can take alot of dmg without having to sink a lot of Inf into it. I don't have a lot which is why and do no know much about all these new IO sets and bonuses and procs etc. Just a simple Old school cheap tank with nothing but regular Generic IOs and SOs iff it can be done. I've been looking through Mids but I want other peoples opinions on what they think will be cheap and still very effective from 1 to 50. Thank you for your help with this, I really want this to be my main so please help. I've been gone for quite a while. |
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Pure Generic IO Build: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(3), ResDam-I(3), ResDam-I(5)
Level 1: Jab -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(5), EndRdx-I(7), Dmg-I(7), Dmg-I(9), RechRdx-I(9)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13), Heal-I(15), Heal-I(15), RechRdx-I(17), Heal-I(17)
Level 4: Punch -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(21), EndRdx-I(23), Dmg-I(23), Dmg-I(25), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 8: Unyielding -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(29), ResDam-I(29), ResDam-I(31)
Level 10: Taunt -- Range-I(A)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 16: Resist Physical Damage -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(31), ResDam-I(31)
Level 18: Invincibility -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(33), DefBuff-I(33), DefBuff-I(33)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(34), EndRdx-I(34), Dmg-I(34), Dmg-I(36), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 22: Resist Elements -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(36), ResDam-I(37)
Level 24: Resist Energies -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(37), ResDam-I(37)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(39), DefBuff-I(39)
Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 30: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 32: Tough -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(40), ResDam-I(40), ResDam-I(40)
Level 35: Hurl -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(42), EndRdx-I(42), Dmg-I(42), Dmg-I(43), Range-I(43)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(43), EndRdx-I(45), Dmg-I(45), Dmg-I(45), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 41: Weave -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(46), DefBuff-I(46), DefBuff-I(48)
Level 44: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(48), EndMod-I(48)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(50), DefBuff-I(50), DefBuff-I(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(11), Dmg-I(11), Dmg-I(13)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(19)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(19), EndMod-I(21)
Totals:
- Defense: Smashing, Lethal, Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative: 32.1% (with one enemy in the Invincibility taunt aura).
- Defense: Psionic, Melee, Ranged, AOE: 14.7% (with one enemy in the Invincibility taunt aura).
- Resistance: Smashing, Lethal: 90% (hardcap, with some buffer for resist debuffs)
- Resistance: Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative: 31.7%
- Regeneration: 193%
- Max HP: 100%
- Endurance Recovery: 2.91 per second
- Endurance Use: 1.31 per second (all the toggles on at once; except Super Jump as it is mutually exclusive with Combat Jumping)
- Max End: 100%
... this is suffering horribly from diminishing returns, being heavily overslotted, but I needed to put the slots somewhere ...
Substitute [Hover] for [Combat Jumping], and [Fly] for [Super Jump] if you prefer to fly like a proper super hero rather than all the bouncing bunnies that people seem to prefer.
Quote:
Umm, the OP said he didn't want SS.
|
Originally Posted by Sun_Runner
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build! Pure Generic IO Build: Level 50 Natural Tanker Primary Power Set: Invulnerability Secondary Power Set: Super Strength Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Leaping Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Leadership Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery |
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
Inv/Stone. Mine is currently at 50, mainly with generic IO's, although I did get a few nice drops along the way (Numina Unique, Steadfast +def, FF proc, a few obliteration procs) and he's very sturdy. Inv is solid as is, but the real sweet part of the combo is Fault and Tremor. Two AoE knockdown powers that can keep whole mobs on their backsides throughout most of the fight. It's the AoE mitigation that leads me to recommend /Stone over /Dark. The self-heal in Dark will make you ridiculously tough, but for protecting you team it's hard to beat /Stone.
Also, Seismic Smash is spectacular.
This is my build. As I said, I primarily just use what drops for me, or Generic IO's off the market. I'm starting to think about doing more with it, but I don't see much point as he's already more than tough enough to tank anything his static team can get into. Tremor and Seismic Smash are the only powers I've gone out of my way to get sets for, but mostly because they were cheap sets and those powers deserve some enhancement. Very effective, but nobody's going to go all giddy over it.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Magmauler: Level 50 Science Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Stone Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- ResDam-I(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(3), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(3), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(5)
Level 1: Stone Fist -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(5), F'dSmite-Acc/Dmg(7), EndRdx-I(7), F'dSmite-Dmg/EndRdx(9), RechRdx-I(9)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(11), RechRdx-I(11), RechRdx-I(13), RechRdx-I(13), Heal-I(15)
Level 4: Heavy Mallet -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(15), Dmg-I(17), Dmg-I(17), EndRdx-I(19), EndRdx-I(19)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- Jump-I(A)
Level 8: Unyielding -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(21), ResDam-I(21), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(23)
Level 10: Taunt -- RechRdx-I(A), Taunt-I(23)
Level 12: Stone Mallet -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(25), Dmg-I(25), F'dSmite-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(27), F'dSmite-Dmg/EndRdx(27), EndRdx-I(29)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(29)
Level 18: Invincibility -- RedFtn-Def/Rchg(A), DefBuff-I(31), DefBuff-I(31), EndRdx-I(31)
Level 20: Fault -- Acc-I(A), FrcFbk-Rechg%(33), RechRdx-I(33), FrcFbk-Rchg/EndRdx(33), KinCrsh-Rechg/EndRdx(34), Rope-Acc/EndRdx(34)
Level 22: Boxing -- Acc(A)
Level 24: Tough -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(34), ResDam-I(36), TtmC'tng-EndRdx(36)
Level 26: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(36)
Level 28: Tough Hide -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(37), DefBuff-I(37)
Level 30: Weave -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(37), DefBuff-I(39), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(39)
Level 32: Resist Physical Damage -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(39), ResDam-I(40)
Level 35: Tremor -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(40), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(40), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(42), Oblit-%Dam(42), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 38: Seismic Smash -- F'dSmite-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), F'dSmite-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(43), F'dSmite-Dmg/Rchg(43), F'dSmite-Dmg/EndRdx(43), F'dSmite-Acc/Dmg(45), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(45)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(46), EndMod-I(46), Heal-I(48)
Level 47: Resist Energies -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(48)
Level 49: Resist Elements -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(48)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(50), EndMod-I(50)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run
Code:
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They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
Thank you for your responses, I had no Idea that Shield for a tanker could be cheap. I currently have a Shield/Axe tank at lvl 30 but Axe seems to be disappointing in dmg and recharge. Though looking at the other Secondarys and minus war mace, I don't see many others that mesh nicely. I haven't tried DM yet though. I may hold off on Shield till after the neew Patch and focus on WP. What would be a good secondary to mesh with that? Maybe Elec, Nrgy, or DM , but not sure cause of costume and theme concepts. I might switch over and make a Claw scrapper, not sure, just need a little but more feedback on how good those three fair for a tanker to make my decision. Again thank you all for your responses.
Quote:
Ah, I see. I admit to only reading the first post in detail and skimming the rest. I missed that bit. Oops.
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Originally Posted by Finduilas
Umm, the OP said he didn't want SS.
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Quote:
Shield/dm I tell you |
Originally Posted by Bowntez
Thank you for your responses, I had no Idea that Shield for a tanker could be cheap. I currently have a Shield/Axe tank at lvl 30 but Axe seems to be disappointing in dmg and recharge. Though looking at the other Secondarys and minus war mace, I don't see many others that mesh nicely. I haven't tried DM yet though. I may hold off on Shield till after the neew Patch and focus on WP. What would be a good secondary to mesh with that? Maybe Elec, Nrgy, or DM , but not sure cause of costume and theme concepts. I might switch over and make a Claw scrapper, not sure, just need a little but more feedback on how good those three fair for a tanker to make my decision. Again thank you all for your responses.
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. If you want wp on the cheap go for mitigation secondary like stone, dark, ss, maybe elec. Wp is just boring though if I am honest. It does cruise to 50 but gets really old fast IMHO. If you are stuck on wp I would go stone...at least it is a fun secondary.
Quote:
I have a lvl 50 SD/BA and i have no problem with dmg and recharge.
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Originally Posted by Bowntez
Thank you for your responses, I had no Idea that Shield for a tanker could be cheap. I currently have a Shield/Axe tank at lvl 30 but Axe seems to be disappointing in dmg and recharge. Though looking at the other Secondarys and minus war mace, I don't see many others that mesh nicely. I haven't tried DM yet though. I may hold off on Shield till after the neew Patch and focus on WP. What would be a good secondary to mesh with that? Maybe Elec, Nrgy, or DM , but not sure cause of costume and theme concepts. I might switch over and make a Claw scrapper, not sure, just need a little but more feedback on how good those three fair for a tanker to make my decision. Again thank you all for your responses.
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Hey all,
I am looking for a Cheap Tank build that can take alot of dmg without having to sink a lot of Inf into it. I don't have a lot which is why and do no know much about all these new IO sets and bonuses and procs etc. Just a simple Old school cheap tank with nothing but regular Generic IOs and SOs iff it can be done. I've been looking through Mids but I want other peoples opinions on what they think will be cheap and still very effective from 1 to 50. Thank you for your help with this, I really want this to be my main so please help. I've been gone for quite a while.