MA DPS rerworked chain?


Arbegla

 

Posted

Actually the real numbers report its DPA as 64, but I can't figure out why because the 80% chance for dot should add up to 20 damage, not like 5 damage... I don't know what the damage per arcanatime is but critless damage per activation should be 69.


 

Posted

Base damage in game?

Arcana time for it I think is 1.452


.... at work... can't do much here


 

Posted

The game says exactly what city of data says: 62.56 + 4 * 6.26 (80%)

The game calls this 77.3 damage. I call it 83.


 

Posted

So we're looking at 56 dpa for Fireblast?


 

Posted

Are you sure the arcanatime for a power with a 1.2 second animation time is going to be 1.45?


 

Posted

1.452

99.91% sure....

used it a lot on my sd/ss tanker


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mauk2 View Post
Just as a point of order:

Isn't electric armor just as fast as super reflexes?

Also, elec has a damage aura.

Just thought I would toss that out....
Which is part of why I chose electric over sr for my db. But with electric you need to get some s/l defense for comparable survivability with an sr, which leaves sr able to slot more +dmg. Whether that extra +dmg is enough to overcome a damage aura (especially with reactive) remains to be seen.


The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]

 

Posted

I calculate 1.332 arcanatime for fire blast. Am I doing something wrong? If it goes in intervals of .132, how could 1.2 possibly end up as high as 1.452?

If I am correct, the DPA should be ~62. Not stellar but I think still possibly within a purple of beating cobra strike.

Though I also notice that the time I came up with is in fact .132 higher than 1.2, leading me to believe that 1.2 is both the actual animation time as well as the arcanatime. Or that was an error. Okay so it should either be 1.18, or 1.32 on the dot. Still! Not nearly as high as 1.452.


 

Posted

Well MIDs should have the arcana time option built in.
under options-configuration-math... check arcana time

Formula should be...
=(ROUNDUP(CAST/0.132,0)+1)*0.132

CAST being the regular cast time

Edit:
So fireblast at 1.2 cast time
(1.2/0.132)+1=10.090909... round up to 11
11*0.132=1.452

Hope I did that right


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze View Post
Well MIDs should have the arcana time option built in.
under options-configuration-math... check arcana time

Formula should be...
=(ROUNDUP(CAST/0.132,0)+1)*0.132

CAST being the regular cast time

Edit:
So fireblast at 1.2 cast time
(1.2/0.132)+1=10.090909... round up to 11
11*0.132=1.452

Hope I did that right
Mids reports cast time as 1.452 using the Aracnatime option.

The question is, is the DPA that much better than Cobra Strike if you purple it like you suggested? Will check in game.

Games says
Fire Blast - lvl 50 scrapper
55.45 avg dmg
46.21 Dmg per Activation Time
which it parses as 45.60 fire dmg and 4 ticks of 80% chance for 4.17 fire dmg

Cobra Strike - lvl 50 scrapper
122.62 avg dmg
73.43 dmg per activation time


 

Posted

Oh okay, I wasn't aware of how the roundup function worked. Wow, fire blast really gets shafted for being .02 seconds past the next lower arcanainterval!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granite Agent View Post
The question is, is the DPA that much better than Cobra Strike if you purple it like you suggested? Will check in game.
I suggested no such thing...
My guess is... probably not. You can still have a regular proc in CS


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Microcosm View Post
Which is part of why I chose electric over sr for my db. But with electric you need to get some s/l defense for comparable survivability with an sr, which leaves sr able to slot more +dmg. Whether that extra +dmg is enough to overcome a damage aura (especially with reactive) remains to be seen.
That depends on the build, but comparing the softcapped builds I have, the damage aura ends up contributing twice as much DPS reactive considered.

SR is still softcapped to everything(besides psi) instead of just S/L which helps a lot in certain situations, while Elec Armor has an easier time picking up powers like Water Spout and Ageless due to its self heal and endurance management.


Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granite Agent View Post
I'd really want to understand what other +dmg effects and procs were running, either though IO bonuses or Assault etc. Because honestly how can maybe adding the Fury -RES proc make that much difference in dps? I mean, a chain is a chain -- if you can run the GC-SD-GC-GD chain, what could be causing a variance of +/- 40dps (assuming pre-incarnate).
Things the build has:
  • purple proc and debuff proc in both Gambler's Cut and Golden Dragonfly
  • two regular damage procs in Soaring Dragon
  • +22% damage from sets
  • +10.5% damage from Assault
  • Gaussian proc
  • Build Up recharges in 26.09
None of those are magic alone (except arguably the Achilles' Heel), but it all adds up. For the sake of argument, I'm going to remove the Gladiator's Fury proc, Assault, set damage, and the extra proc in Soaring Dragon. We still have the purple procs, the Achilles' Heel, and the fast Build Up recharge, so we're still decently-slotted, and better slotted than many builds. Now I'm at 200 DPS. So there's 40 DPS right there. Heck, if I gut everything but the Build Up recharge, we drop to 160 DPS, so another 40 DPS. So in a sense, 80 DPS is procs, Assault and set bonuses. 1/3 of the damage is procs, Assault and set bonuses. So yeah, they can make a big difference.

It appears I didn't deduct for Practiced Brawler activation time, but did for Hasten. I'm sure that was intentional, but I'm not sure WHY. On brief glance I was consistent with that. That would probably drop it by maybe 4 DPS? It might have had something to do with my time frame, since I wasn't shooting for sustainable endurance, but then why would I deduct for Hasten? Anyway, that's arguably a calculation error, and would be for pylon soloing, say, which is what we're often comparing against these days. You'd also need to factor in healing time with pylon soloing, but not including healing time isn't a bug in the calculations, just something to keep in mind for some real world applications of the DPS. In others, like a Tanker-taunted AV, it wouldn't be a factor.

Edit: If you'd like, I could calculate the DPS for your build using my spreadsheet, and see how close I come. My guess is that if 180 DPS is your pylon DPS, I'd calculate something more like 190 DPS in the spreadsheet. It might give some idea not the margin of error, but the difference in the things being compared (theoretical max DPS vs. observed in the real world on real computers while healing damage, clicking Practiced Brawler, occasionally making mistakes in the chain, and so on).

Or maybe I'd see a surprisingly high number, and it might suggest that I have a problem somewhere.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Things the build has:
  • purple proc and debuff proc in both Gambler's Cut and Golden Dragonfly
  • two regular damage procs in Soaring Dragon
  • +22% damage from sets
  • +10.5% damage from Assault
  • Gaussian proc
  • Build Up recharges in 26.09
None of those are magic alone (except arguably the Achilles' Heel), but it all adds up. For the sake of argument, I'm going to remove the Gladiator's Fury proc, Assault, set damage, and the extra proc in Soaring Dragon. We still have the purple procs, the Achilles' Heel, and the fast Build Up recharge, so we're still decently-slotted, and better slotted than many builds. Now I'm at 200 DPS. So there's 40 DPS right there. Heck, if I gut everything but the Build Up recharge, we drop to 160 DPS, so another 40 DPS. So in a sense, 80 DPS is procs, Assault and set bonuses. 1/3 of the damage is procs, Assault and set bonuses. So yeah, they can make a big difference.

It appears I didn't deduct for Practiced Brawler activation time, but did for Hasten. I'm sure that was intentional, but I'm not sure WHY. On brief glance I was consistent with that. That would probably drop it by maybe 4 DPS? It might have had something to do with my time frame, since I wasn't shooting for sustainable endurance, but then why would I deduct for Hasten? Anyway, that's arguably a calculation error, and would be for pylon soloing, say, which is what we're often comparing against these days. You'd also need to factor in healing time with pylon soloing, but not including healing time isn't a bug in the calculations, just something to keep in mind for some real world applications of the DPS. In others, like a Tanker-taunted AV, it wouldn't be a factor.

Edit: If you'd like, I could calculate the DPS for your build using my spreadsheet, and see how close I come. My guess is that if 180 DPS is your pylon DPS, I'd calculate something more like 190 DPS in the spreadsheet. It might give some idea not the margin of error, but the difference in the things being compared (theoretical max DPS vs. observed in the real world on real computers while healing damage, clicking Practiced Brawler, occasionally making mistakes in the chain, and so on).

Or maybe I'd see a surprisingly high number, and it might suggest that I have a problem somewhere.
Here's the build I was running.

  • purple proc and debuff proc in Gambler's Cut
  • purple proc (Armg set) in Golden Dragonfly
  • NO damage procs in Soaring Dragon
  • +7.5% damage from sets
  • Gaussian Proc in build up
  • Build Up recharges in 27 secs with hasten up (131 secs)
That's with an E/N soft-cap (L/M with Divine Av), and 626% regen. So definitely it was a mix of trying to build for DPS and survivability. Just surprised it made such a difference (60 dps).



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granite Agent View Post
Here's the build I was running.
OK, I have you at 194 DPS.

You're at 198 DPS while Hasten is up. Hasten should be down for about 15 seconds by my calculations. While it's down, Golden Dragonfly has about a 0.7 second gap, so DPS will go down quite a bit. Looks like about 165. Still, that's just for 15 seconds. So time averaged would only bring you down to about 194. You aren't taking time to heal because of regeneration. You don't have Practiced Brawler slowing you down. I assume you aren't using other clicks or inspirations or anything else that would take time.

So I'm not sure why I'm calculating almost 15 more DPS than you're seeing in game. It's certainly possible that I have something wrong in my calculations.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Here's one with 41.5% damage bonus and possible be ok on endurance

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Add in Musculature and should put out some nice damage


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
OK, I have you at 194 DPS.

You're at 198 DPS while Hasten is up. Hasten should be down for about 15 seconds by my calculations. While it's down, Golden Dragonfly has about a 0.7 second gap, so DPS will go down quite a bit. Looks like about 165. Still, that's just for 15 seconds. So time averaged would only bring you down to about 194. You aren't taking time to heal because of regeneration. You don't have Practiced Brawler slowing you down. I assume you aren't using other clicks or inspirations or anything else that would take time.

So I'm not sure why I'm calculating almost 15 more DPS than you're seeing in game. It's certainly possible that I have something wrong in my calculations.
Hey Werner. Thanks for checking. There may have been some misclicks etc that contribute to real performance being below what you calculate, but I remember definitely not being impressed by hitting around 180dps.

I think I filled the hasten-down gap by using Slice (the aoe cone) as a filler attack waiting for GD?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze View Post
Here's one with 41.5% damage bonus and possible be ok on endurance

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Add in Musculature and should put out some nice damage
You can actually squeeze a bit more into that if you take Kick instead of Boxing, put Explosive Strike into Kick and Mako's into Brawl. You'll need a spare slot for that, I'd probably go for the one in Lucky.


Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

So this converstation has gone off in another direction, but that's ok. Could anyone tell me how to get more out of my build then? If I move the Guassian to Focussed Accuracy, where would I pull 2 more slots to add to Focused Chi?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post

With the incarnate trials, you may want to shoot for 59% defense on a Super Reflexes, though you may also find that with all the defense buffs flying around, that's normally wasted. I wouldn't really be satisfied with 45% these days, though.

No time to review the build right now.
So what do you take, to get to 59% defense? The only thing I can think of is the Barrier Incarnate; however, I think you get just so much more out of Ageless, that it is pointless to take anything else, at least for my build anyway. I mean I'm damage capped in most every attack. I know I don't need all of them, but they are fun to have. Of course, when I'm attacking an AV it'll just be the nomral HIGH DPS chain. That being said I really enjoy being able to attack with such a variety of attacks. Makes me feel like I'm more of a Martial Artist bouncing from target to target.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost_Ripper View Post
So what do you take, to get to 59% defense?
On a Super Reflexes or on your Shield Defense? Doing it on a Shield Defense is pretty hard and involves a bunch of compromises. Like you might be looking at Weave, Combat Jumping, Maneuvers AND Hover, along with a million defense bonuses instead of the recharge the build is begging for. I don't think I'd bother, but if I did, I'd probably be doing it with Barrier and with a Gladiator's Armor.

Not that I've tried it, but on paper, I'm not a fan of Ageless. If I have endurance trouble, my preference would probably be to manage it with Cardiac so as to free up Barrier or Rebirth to add a whole lot of survivability. Of course for pure damage, I'd want Musculature. Then you either need to manage endurance the old fashioned way to get your extra survivability (Musculature helps a little), or you just go with Ageless and call it good. But seriously, you're not on a Dark Armor. You should be able to work something out.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
On a Super Reflexes or on your Shield Defense? Doing it on a Shield Defense is pretty hard and involves a bunch of compromises. Like you might be looking at Weave, Combat Jumping, Maneuvers AND Hover, along with a million defense bonuses instead of the recharge the build is begging for. I don't think I'd bother, but if I did, I'd probably be doing it with Barrier and with a Gladiator's Armor.

Not that I've tried it, but on paper, I'm not a fan of Ageless. If I have endurance trouble, my preference would probably be to manage it with Cardiac so as to free up Barrier or Rebirth to add a whole lot of survivability. Of course for pure damage, I'd want Musculature. Then you either need to manage endurance the old fashioned way to get your extra survivability (Musculature helps a little), or you just go with Ageless and call it good. But seriously, you're not on a Dark Armor. You should be able to work something out.
I don't know, did you see how horrendous the End usage is on my character. I even took the Physical Perfection PPP, as this is my homage chacter to Captain America. I'll be playing him all day tomorrow after I go see the movie, in honor of opening day. So, his end sucks bad right now...also, SD was and has always been notorious for horrible end just like, albiet not as bad as DA. Also, you take Ageless not just for end, but for the +Recharge, +Recovery. That's killing two birds with one stone, instead of having a semi-longer lasting MOG or a longer lasting IH. Which either could fit my character Idea; however, I think Super Soldier and never getting winded fit better together. Especially, allowing me to take Musculature for the added dmg. I could defintely see me building for more recharge, and taking Cardiac Alpha and the Rebirth, but that's sacraficing a lot of other things I build into my build, i.e. Almost Max HP, 34% Resistance on top of 45% defense to all positions, and Super High Damage. I have so much damage from Reactive, Enhances, Musculature, and AAO, that I didn't even need Assault, b/c It wasn't adding any value to me when I was saturated with AAO. I know you said you were too busy to look at the build, but if you get a chance, blink it over and see where you think you can improve it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost_Ripper View Post
I don't know, did you see how horrendous the End usage is on my character. I even took the Physical Perfection PPP, as this is my homage chacter to Captain America. I'll be playing him all day tomorrow after I go see the movie, in honor of opening day. So, his end sucks bad right now...also, SD was and has always been notorious for horrible end just like, albiet not as bad as DA.

SD is not horrible on endurance. It is comparable to Invuln & SR.


If I can make an SS/SD/Soul Brute work with Cardiac, you can make MA work with it as well.

So no body/energy mastery even needed, and I've added Gloom to my attack chain.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost_Ripper View Post
Also, you take Ageless not just for end, but for the +Recharge, +Recovery. That's killing two birds with one stone, instead of having a semi-longer lasting MOG or a longer lasting IH. Which either could fit my character Idea; however, I think Super Soldier and never getting winded fit better together. Especially, allowing me to take Musculature for the added dmg.
While I see nothing wrong with going ageless specifically for musculature, Rebirth & Barrier are simply much, much stronger options in my eyes.

Ultimately Destiny is one of the most powerful things you can add to any character, and that's why I almost always choose Rebirth or Barrier, I think they are quite easily the most powerful of the options for melee characters.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost_Ripper View Post
I could defintely see me building for more recharge, and taking Cardiac Alpha and the Rebirth, but that's sacraficing a lot of other things I build into my build, i.e. Almost Max HP, 34% Resistance on top of 45% defense to all positions
Just a note, T4 Cardiac Core Paragon will increase your Resistances.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost_Ripper View Post
and Super High Damage. I have so much damage from Reactive, Enhances, Musculature, and AAO, that I didn't even need Assault, b/c It wasn't adding any value to me when I was saturated with AAO. I know you said you were too busy to look at the build, but if you get a chance, blink it over and see where you think you can improve it.
Do you primarily solo or do you team quite a lot?

If you solo, then overall I agree.

If you team a lot, assault for your team, which you can run with Cardiac, becomes the much stronger option than whatever bonuses Musculature is doing for you alone.

Now I see that your build already has assault, and I think you're at the point of overkill with AAO, Musculature & Assault.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus View Post
I think you're at the point of overkill with AAO, Musculature & Assault.
I don't get it... is this sarcasim?


I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.