MA DPS rerworked chain?

There are two problems with using pylon times for this. They have human error baked in both in the build and in the fight, and not all combinations are represented. How does MA/SD look, for instance? That would be a slightly more fair comparison to DM/SD and FM/SD than MA/SR is.

Well, and another problem is that crazy pylon soloers are going to be using saturated AAO and soul drain unenhanced for damage to absolutely maximize their times. Those are very specific conditions for DPS evaluation.

think the 81 is the unenhanced value

What's controversial about what Auroxis just said? Did Werner ever present the pylon times as anything other than the measure of how high your DPS is against pylons? It's a method for the evaluation of a specific character in a specific circumstance. The point of this thread had been the DPS of MA chains in general, regardless of secondary and regardless of target.

On the topic but off target a bit, I would like to say:
1. To obtain DPS you have to survive (So all DPS is therotically built with you surviving said fight.)
2. Alot goes into survival; clicking heals, clicking Tier 9's, clicking inspirations, clicking anything other than DPS chain lowers DPS chain. (I know, thanks Cpt. Obvious)
3. Listing DPS numbers in theory and testing them are diffrent animals, see reason 1 &2. So, I think the Rikti Pylon thread was created to get Real Numbers for similar situations, as in Soloing an AV, which is mainly what you are wanting DPS for anyhow. And basic chain of attacks is going to take out a Boss, even Boss +4 pretty quickly. So we are looking at Upper tier Mobs, the EB's and AV's and for some GM's. (GM's as far as I know can only be Solo'd by Controllers, Defenders, and Corrupters, which I can confirm. Dom's I do not know about.)

As a side note, my point is that unlike some secondaries, MA has a number of good DPS chains, some with low recharge requirements. Also, if you like Eagle's Claw you aren't "gimping" your build by using it. What small amount of DPS you will lose in single target will be made up for in Dragon's Tail crits.

(Personally I don't use Eagle's Claw on my main MA/SR, but I do on my other MA/WP character. Both are 50 and have a good amount of IO slotting.)

Not sure if anyone has said this yet, but the -Defense in Crippling Axe Kick was made unenhanceable by design.

I don't know how it all shakes out in the final DPS but I think one of the unseen advantages of the sk -> cs -> sk -> cak chain is that you're throwing down more attacks over the same period of time. The most obvious boon is the increased mileage you get from procs, but it also makes your chain more granular and results in less medium-long animations spent overkilling things just to finish them off.

Been reading through the Rikti Pylon Thread, and see mostly MA/SR's doing the higher DPS. Everything near the top is with /SD. So how come MA/SD was really low compareatively to MA/SR? Was the one person using the MA/SD just not good/optimally built? I would think the DPS from the MA/SD would be pretty high with AAO fully saturated.

I don't see why people act like MA is a single target only set. Dragon's tail is easily one of the best scrapper aoes by more than one measure. I'd take it over anything but spin.

So....


What I'm getting from this is that nobody really knows what MA's current DPS is.

Heck, I don't think we know what ANYBODY's DPS is with the incarnate (alpha/reactive) powers added in.

...how refreshing.

PLAY WHAT YOU LIKE. Screw the darn numbers.

Okay, so from Moonlighter's 81 dps arcanatime figure, doubling that for enhancement, figure in procs, carry the five, average out reactive core vs radial into a delicious numeric bisque, and voila. I have calculated that MA definitely does between 160 and 500 DPS. Probably.

The Werner numbers being posted are from an old DPS comparison spreadsheet I made using a massive-recharge Super Reflexes template being applied as equally as possible to each primary. The slotting was not endurance sustainable, so they aren't sustainable DPS, though I believe I made sure they could all put out that DPS for at least a significant amount of time. I no longer remember my goal time. A couple minutes, perhaps.

I think of the spreadsheet as something around the top end of what is achievable without damage from your secondary (via aura or damage boost) or from incarnate powers. Basically, I was trying to compare primaries.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auroxis As for that DPS list ghost posted, it isn't very representative of actual DPS potential. Katana being better than Dual Blades?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auroxis I don't have any question, I'm pretty certain the list isn't accurate in terms of DPS potential.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auroxis Purely because the top DB chain is better than the top Katana chain. Nothing else.

It looks like the spreadsheet I had downloadable was as little out of date. My current version shows slightly different numbers. I think one problem I fixed was that I believed the gaps had to adhere to Arcanatime as well as the powers. I believe Arcanaville told me directly that that wasn't the case, but my memory is poor. I think the 237 Dual Blades figure was with longer gaps than required by our recharge. In any case, I currently have them dead even:

242 DPS Dual Blades (burning 4.18 EPS)
242 DPS Katana (burning 4.24 EPS)

Think I'm wrong? Then have a look at the current spreadsheet. If I'm failing to employ some trick to boost Dual Blades' DPS, please let me know. If I'm calculating wrong, please let me know. I've found mistakes in the past. There may still be some. But saying what amounts to "That's wrong because it's wrong" isn't a very convincing argument, or really an argument at all.

One thing I suspect is wrong is exactly when the Blinding Feint buff takes effect. I have it at the completion of the animation time, but I thought I remembered something like it being at the 1/2 second mark. If so, that would lower DPS due to less stacking of Blinding Feint, Achilles' Heel and Gladiator's Fury.

Since I didn't individually optimize builds, we might expect some minor DPS improvements were the builds to be fully optimized for their primaries. But I would expect this to benefit Katana more since it's the one swimming in much more recharge than it needs for its chain. That might give it the flexibility to pick up more damage bonuses, say.