Will BABS fall with Galaxy? Should he?
By
Blue Rabbit,
Posted on: 2011-07-09 08:37 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
BAB will be a signature NPC Contact or Ally in the tutorial. If he is 'killed off', then the LRSF will have to remove him along with any other arc that references him, because, the tutorial represents an event that happens before all other events your character may encounter in the game. He will thus become just some no-name that dies in the tutorial.
So... no. And no. And no.
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If BAB dies, that would make the BAB Gloves salvage a bit more morbid, don't you think?
I don't see him dying, but I can see him getting badly injured and taken out of action. Maybe become a contact for a later TF (or even a SF) to go after something to get him back on his feet. Maybe something in Praetoria or some some rumored healing artifact stuck in the Shadow Shard.
"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me
@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn
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The description of "Galaxy City's Last Stand" does say that we'll be able to see BAB "fighting {...} in the game", along with Sister Psyche. Unless that's in a cut-scene, though, the CoH engine doesn't seem to be built to include "baked in" outcomes. In either case, though, excluding players from affecting outcomes tends to break immersion, so dictating an automatic defeat for him might turn out to be less dramatic.|
Originally Posted by BlueBattler
Would it make it more dramatic if he did go down fighting to save his city?
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(Goodness knows BAB is missed here on the forums.)
I don't think we have to worry about it, frankly. I doubt he'll "fall with galaxy city." FWIW, there are very few times we have characters we meet "fall" (Breakneck, your double in Jenny Adair's arc, Pyriss and Terra - the last being a "sort of" for the list - are the only ones I can think of right offhand.)
If a fairly major character falls... I'd expect it to be one of many, really, and just before a major change (as in "And then we launch COH 2.")
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It wouldn't be the end of the world if he had to be removed from the LRSF. Someone else could appear in the third mission in his stead, like one of the Vindicators that doesn't appear in the SF, and the last mission is stupid hard for all but the most prepared/incarnated teams, so removing one of the AVs would be a good change.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
BAB will be a signature NPC Contact or Ally in the tutorial. If he is 'killed off', then the LRSF will have to remove him along with any other arc that references him, because, the tutorial represents an event that happens before all other events your character may encounter in the game. He will thus become just some no-name that dies in the tutorial.
So... no. And no. And no. |
I do think it would make it a more meaningful change, though.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I don't think we have to worry about it, frankly. I doubt he'll "fall with galaxy city." FWIW, there are very few times we have characters we meet "fall" (Breakneck, your double in Jenny Adair's arc, Pyriss and Terra - the last being a "sort of" for the list - are the only ones I can think of right offhand.)
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Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
My suspicion is that the first "Signature" arc will focus on Sister Psyche (boo! hiss! [I loathe her only slightly less than Hamidon]) and BAB (not bad!) and continue the "Galaxy City Fallout" story. So, my prediction is that he'll head off into only-in-missions-land, like a number of the less-hated signature characters.
"Bombarding the CoH/V fora with verbosity since January, 2006"
Djinniman, level 50 inv/fire tanker, on Victory
-and 40 others on various servers
A CoH Comic: Kid Eros in "One Light"
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If BAB is killed during the tutorial, his death is totally, completely pointless and without meaning. In the CoH universe, he would be just simply some backstory guy who dies the moment you begin you super career.|
Originally Posted by Vanden
It wouldn't be the end of the world if he had to be removed from the LRSF. Someone else could appear in the third mission in his stead, like one of the Vindicators that doesn't appear in the SF, and the last mission is stupid hard for all but the most prepared/incarnated teams, so removing one of the AVs would be a good change.
I do think it would make it a more meaningful change, though. Don't forget Shadowhunter! |
You're confusing knowledge of BAB you have from one alt to another alt.
It will never happen. Asking for it to happen is completely missing the point of a storyline of your alt progressing from Level 1 to 50.
Shadowhunter 'dies' in your 40s. That's different.
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The Brawler is one of the most famous heroes in Paragon. Just because you're starting out your career as a newbie hero doesn't mean you've never heard of him.
I doubt they will actually kill him off, but I could see some nice dramatic effects from it:
Those who choose to be heroes may decide to do it to honor his memory. Those who are villains may see it as the wages of heroism being death. 
My COX Fanfiction:
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I don't see him dying. Characters who end up killed are incidental, introduced inside the storyline they die in, most usually. BABs is on the cover of the game. We ain't losing him.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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From the point of view of your character, he's as famous as Queen Comet. He shows up as you begin your super career and promptly dies, getting no more famous as Queen Comet.|
Originally Posted by BlueBattler
The Brawler is one of the most famous heroes in Paragon. Just because you're starting out your career as a newbie hero doesn't mean you've never heard of him.
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People keep mistaking the knowledge they know as a player, or the knowledge and experience their level 50 has with what a character starting out in the tutorial knows or has experienced.
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Yes, but the knowledge as a character just starting out is irrelevant, since BABs is in several places in the game, he's on posters, he's on the loading screens, but more than that: BABs is a famous character with the players. We like him, in part thanks to Christopher Bruce having made the name famous around the forums and in part because he's just a cool character. Removing him would be a mistake whether or not it makes sense within continuity.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
From the point of view of your character, he's as famous as Queen Comet. He shows up as you begin your super career and promptly dies, getting no more famous as Queen Comet.
People keep mistaking the knowledge they know as a player, or the knowledge and experience their level 50 has with what a character starting out in the tutorial knows or has experienced. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Unless your character has never read a newspaper or watched a television broadcast, I'd argue that BABs level of fame in Paragon is high enough that you'd recognize him, even if you came from somewhere else in the United States.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
From the point of view of your character, he's as famous as Queen Comet. He shows up as you begin your super career and promptly dies, getting no more famous as Queen Comet.
People keep mistaking the knowledge they know as a player, or the knowledge and experience their level 50 has with what a character starting out in the tutorial knows or has experienced. |
He's been active in Paragon since the 1970s. Most of our characters aren't born at the moment of creation ... they have a life before they started fighting evil or against justice.
I find it unrealistic to assume they don't know who someone like BABs, Positron, or Statesman is.
Fusionette, Doc Buzzsaw-- someone on that level I could easily assume they are unknown to the general public.
Granted, not ALL characters would necessarily know who he is-- the PC might be from another time or world or country, but IMO it's PLAUSIBLE they would know who he is.
My COX Fanfiction:
Blue's Assembled Story Links
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Say what? She's hardly in tbhe game at all |
Originally Posted by Olantern
Sister Psyche (boo! hiss! [I loathe her only slightly less than Hamidon])
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Originally Posted by BlueBattler
Unless your character has never read a newspaper or watched a television broadcast, I'd argue that BABs level of fame in Paragon is high enough that you'd recognize him, even if you came from somewhere else in the United States.
He's been active in Paragon since the 1970s. Most of our characters aren't born at the moment of creation ... they have a life before they started fighting evil or against justice. I find it unrealistic to assume they don't know who someone like BABs, Positron, or Statesman is. Fusionette, Doc Buzzsaw-- someone on that level I could easily assume they are unknown to the general public. Granted, not ALL characters would necessarily know who he is-- the PC might be from another time or world or country, but IMO it's PLAUSIBLE they would know who he is. |
The primary issue with your thought is that the death of the Back Alley Brawler will only resonate with those of us that have experienced the game. BAB may be one of the Surviving Eight, but a brand new player will neither know nor care. Therefore, new players that have never had any interaction with the Brawler (in-game or on the forums where the name was made (in)famous) will not give 2 sh**s less about some chump that died in the tutorial. So, while it would matter to us, it's still not a very wise decision. If they killed him around level 40 or so...that's a different story.
@CrimsonOriole
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I liken this to removing the 5th Column way back in the day. Yeah, new players who came in after I3 didn't even know who the 5th Column were, but that didn't stop a lot of us who DID know from complaining about it for... Years, quite literally, until they put the Column back into the game.
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Originally Posted by LeoninProtector
The primary issue with your thought is that the death of the Back Alley Brawler will only resonate with those of us that have experienced the game. BAB may be one of the Surviving Eight, but a brand new player will neither know nor care. Therefore, new players that have never had any interaction with the Brawler (in-game or on the forums where the name was made (in)famous) will not give 2 sh**s less about some chump that died in the tutorial. So, while it would matter to us, it's still not a very wise decision. If they killed him around level 40 or so...that's a different story.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Wait... killing off BAB in the tutorial? When did CoX become a horror movie?
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
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Well, it IS based around comic books, and killing BABs for no reason would be consistent with books like Countdown or Cry for Justice, would it not?
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Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
Wait... killing off BAB in the tutorial? When did CoX become a horror movie?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I think BAB will be safe as long as he doesn't utter one of the dooming phrases...
"What could go wrong?"
"That sound was probably nothing..."
"Im two weeks from retirement!"
...and my personal favorite...
"Im gettin too old for this @*&#!"
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I don't know... Danny Glover survived four Lethal Weapon movies with that exact line stuck on repeat |
Originally Posted by Zenyth
"Im gettin too old for this @*&#!"
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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In feature on the comic book cover intros, they said that the tutorial will begin with your character fighting alongside Psyche and BABs. I doubt either one will die.
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Ever since BAB convinced Sister Psyche to go down a back alley and make out... it sealed their doom as the first to go.
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Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
Wait... killing off BAB in the tutorial? When did CoX become a horror movie?
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He already said that, more or less, at the closest he's ever been to death, and still he lived:|
Originally Posted by Zenyth
I think BAB will be safe as long as he doesn't utter one of the dooming phrases...
... "Im gettin too old for this @*&#!" |
Top Cow comic #9, 2nd to last panel.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
BAB will be a signature NPC Contact or Ally in the tutorial. If he is 'killed off', then the LRSF will have to remove him along with any other arc that references him, because, the tutorial represents an event that happens before all other events your character may encounter in the game. He will thus become just some no-name that dies in the tutorial.
So... no. And no. And no. |
Zombie has it 100% right. It's not even just the LRSF there are a number of story arcs red side that pit villains/rogues against BABs.. I just recently completed Crimson Revenant's arc on Nerva (30-34 level if you have the Hammer Down Badge for defeating the Ghost of Scrapyard). He also appears in a mission from Alan Desslock again between 30 -34 if you are a VEAT. Oh and don;t forget he is one of the 50 level signature heroes that appears in Recluse's Victory when a villain takes out enough pill boxes. THAT also means he is around in the future since that's where Recluse Victory takes place so it seems unlikely he dies defending Galaxy CITY in the present but is still battling evil in the future.
Heroes get to rescue him and have him as a pet in the Mendor Silos TF as well so right there you have 4 different missions and the summons in RV that would need to be altered if BABs died. Much more likely he'll do everything he can to save the neighborhood but in the end will be forced to retreat .. possibly even by Statesman yanking him out physically because "The city can't afford to lose you!"
Hmmm I can see it now State's running around for a week grumbling under his breath as the black eye BABs gives him SLOWLY heals. lol
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If Galaxy City falls, what happens to Back Alley Brawler?
Has anyone else wondered if he might be destined for that great Supergroup in the sky?
Would it make it more dramatic if he did go down fighting to save his city?
My COX Fanfiction:
Blue's Assembled Story Links