Not going to happen. See cottage rule. Also, on #2, it's a solid mule power for the steadfast IOs.
Be well, people of CoH.
7/10, could do better.
Omnes relinquite spes, o vos intrantes
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Sadly ... too heretical to be taken seriously. 
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Quote:
fixt
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Originally Posted by The_Spad_EU
4/10, could do better.
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Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
I wish forms were just made inherent, with 4 inherent slots in each form power.
Quote:
It's heroside. |
Originally Posted by Visthera
It is my belief, with these changes, this archetype could finally deserve its title Heroic Epic Archetype.
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It's tied to a specific bit of lore, and has storyarcs of its own.
It's an archetype.
Already deserves the title, thanks.
As for the rest, no.
Quote:
Ridiculous. Have you ever seen a WELL-played Warshade? Not an AE built, poorly planned WS, but a seriously IO'd, [human - too soon?], Warshade? |
Originally Posted by Visthera
Kheldians are unpopular. When most play one, they do not feel epic. It often feels and plays weaker then the characters they started with before they opened up this archetype.
After some thought and playing a kheldian for a long while, I have come to some radical ideas that might make this Archetype epic fun, instead of epic work. This might be heretic for some, including myself, as I love the whole tri-form kheldian of mine, but it may be time for a whole new philosophy to take place. 1. While shape-changing can be fun, as a function and mechanic, it just not working out. The animations take too long and shifting to either nova or dwarf locks out everything else the character can do. If we just drop those two forms all together, we can focus on balancing out our human (or humanoid) powers. 2. Absorption/Incandescnce - Largely ignored and never slotted power that every kheldian is force to take at level one. With the above idea (#1), perhaps we can make this power useful. With the dwarf form gone, we could make this into the kheldian mez resist power. As stretched as power slotting for this archetype can be, at least it would give this power a use and function without the other powers needing to be remade or redone completely. 3. With the form switching gone (the forms that are focus on range damage - nova and damage resist/protections - dwarf ), the damage resist shield powers and damaging powers can finally get the boost they need by upping the power values to balance out the loss of those two forms. It is my belief, with these changes, this archetype could finally deserve its title Heroic Epic Archetype. |
Obviously, you haven't.
Quote:
Hang on, you don't need IOs to be The MFing Warshade. I've clearly stated as much in my guide.
|
Originally Posted by Zenithalia
Ridiculous. Have you ever seen a WELL-played Warshade? Not an AE built, poorly planned WS, but a seriously IO'd, [human - too soon?], Warshade?
Obviously, you haven't. |
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Yeah, let's fix the shapeshifting AT by taking out the shapeshifting... wait...
Granted, there are issues with animation times and room for improvement, but as others have already noted, this idea is pretty much fail.
Iscariot's Guide to the Tri-Form Warshade, version 2.1
I'm sorry that math > your paranoid delusions, but them's the breaks -- Nethergoat
P.E.R.C. Rep for Liberty server
Quote:
Absolutely! I followed Dechs' guide and have found the Warshade... ahem, the MFing Warshade, to be very epic! I played all the way to 50 on SOs and had a blast. It was at times challenging (Curse you Devouring Earth and your lack of corpses!), but when you are executing well, you really feel uber.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Hang on, you don't need IOs to be The MFing Warshade. I've clearly stated as much in my guide.
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I submitted my build to Dechs a few days ago and he has very graciously given me some ideas on improving it. I am in the process of outfitting him now and will hopefully unleash him tonight!
If you haven't, read the guide!
http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...-warshade.html
Animation times on the shapeshifts really do need to be reduced and made non-interuptable. Very often, I'll try to shift to dwarf (ususally because of mez) and die waiting for it to happen because it was interupted.
On a side note, anyone have any tips for dealing with this? It is my biggest aggravation when playing my WS.
Quote:
This... THIS is the only complaint I have about the Kheldians. So much so in fact my 50 PB I just made a second build that is human only and I play it exclusively now. For my WS 50 though, tri-form is a must... Still, the animation times are a bit... looonnnngggg.
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Originally Posted by MajorTractor
Animation times on the shapeshifts really do need to be reduced and made non-interuptable. Very often, I'll try to shift to dwarf (ususally because of mez) and die waiting for it to happen because it was interupted.
On a side note, anyone have any tips for dealing with this? It is my biggest aggravation when playing my WS. |
Quote:
I've always pushed for shorter times, as that would make the interruption much less likely and the whole AT a lot less clunky.|
Originally Posted by MajorTractor
Animation times on the shapeshifts really do need to be reduced and made non-interuptable. Very often, I'll try to shift to dwarf (ususally because of mez) and die waiting for it to happen because it was interupted.
On a side note, anyone have any tips for dealing with this? It is my biggest aggravation when playing my WS. |
How to deal with it? I just repeatedly mash my E key, which is my "jump to dwarf" bind. This tactic has an extra benefit of automatically activating Dwarf Mire as soon as I do shift. The one bind is set up to use both powers.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
No offense, but I read your guide, and while I appreciate the time you took to make it, it certainly is not an end-all to the warshade. |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Hang on, you don't need IOs to be The MFing Warshade. I've clearly stated as much in my guide.
|
There are obviously different levels of fun with the warshade, the first level being the tri-form. The next level of fun, and really feeling epic, can only be found in a human only warshade.
The varying degrees of those two levels of fun depend on your IOs and slots.
So when I say seriously IO'd, I meant it.
Quote:
And I never claimed it was. In fact, the opposite is quite vehemently claimed in the opening section.|
Originally Posted by Zenithalia
No offense, but I read your guide, and while I appreciate the time you took to make it, it certainly is not an end-all to the warshade.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The MFing Warshade
I'm not going to claim that mine is the only way or the best way to play a warshade. There are many ways to play a warshade and best is a very subjective term. For instance, AlienOne has done some pretty crazy things with his human only warshade.
|
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
Hmmmm... Repeatedly mashing my binds seems to have the exact opposite effect for me. Maybe I need to rework my binds. The way it is now it seems if I hit my bind more than once (even outside combat) it tends to usually do nothing. |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I've always pushed for shorter times, as that would make the interruption much less likely and the whole AT a lot less clunky.
How to deal with it? I just repeatedly mash my E key, which is my "jump to dwarf" bind. This tactic has an extra benefit of automatically activating Dwarf Mire as soon as I do shift. The one bind is set up to use both powers. |
I'll have a look at my binds when I get home tonight. I don't even remember what they are anymore. I made them around i12 I think.
naaah... no changes to how the set already works.. just tweaking thats all we need... and here we go again.. for both we need this.
Both:
1. Reduce shifting time.
2. Reduce shift interrupt time.
3. Raise dmg modifiers.
4. Change all knoback to knockdown
5. Suppress toggles instead of disabling them while switched to forms
WS:
1. Make the immobilize power a cone or targeted aoe..
2. Switch all the resistance shields to Defensive, except for eclipse. The defensive will stack well with shadow cloak and when eclipse is saturated you will have a nice layer of mitigation instead of a over capped one.
3. Change the ws dwarf heal to a Dark Armor heal clone ie aoe, not single target.
PB:
1. Change group flight to something useful.. Like a power like fire embrace.. Call it light enhancer or something .. for 20 sec your dmg increases, with a 90 sec recharge.
2. Change Seekers to a targeted AOE with a chance for it to veer off to any target between you and the intended target. And lower the recharge.
3. Change Light form to a shadow meld or mog clone. 30sec of a 50% resistance buff 70% defense buff, 120 sec recharge.
This is all my opinion of course.. but this will keep the toons the same to what they are now so the vets wont get pissed at the change.. and the toon will be re-energized for newer players.
Freedom:
Iron-Blade 50kat/invul Iron Ascension 50trifpb Cinder Reborn 50fire/kin Zaha'doom 50triws Cindered Stones 50fire/ston ColdFusion 35 ice/rad Iron Ash 50 Fir/WP
Iron Wind km/regen Iron Static elec/reg Psy Entity 50 psy/dev Iron-Assassin 50 nin/nin
Quote:
I know what's going on here. You used the "powexecname" bind. What you want to use is "powexectoggleon" which only allows the bind to turn the toggle on.
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Originally Posted by MajorTractor
Hmmmm... Repeatedly mashing my binds seems to have the exact opposite effect for me. Maybe I need to rework my binds. The way it is now it seems if I hit my bind more than once (even outside combat) it tends to usually do nothing.
|
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
That is part of the problem. You shouldn't need to be IO'd out with set bonus to be functional. Either way. I do not mind if the ideas being shot down or not, or even disagreed with. To see people passionate about it is heart warming.
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Originally Posted by Zenithalia
Ridiculous. Have you ever seen a WELL-played Warshade? Not an AE built, poorly planned WS, but a seriously IO'd, [human - too soon?], Warshade?
Obviously, you haven't. |
Quote:
Its why I said a different philosophy in that the whole shape shifting AT idea is fail (save for maybe lightform, which seems like an unstoppable power from Invulnerability power set)
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Originally Posted by Justaris
Yeah, let's fix the shapeshifting AT by taking out the shapeshifting... wait...
Granted, there are issues with animation times and room for improvement, but as others have already noted, this idea is pretty much fail. |
Quote:
Believe me, as a warshade, you don't.|
Originally Posted by Visthera
You shouldn't need to be IO'd out with set bonus to be functional.
|
PBs can still be functional without, too, but they are definitely not on the same playing field as their darker cousins.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
Except that the shapeshifting AT idea does work, particularly in the case of Warshades. It needs some love, particularly in the area of animation times, but it's far from failure. Scrapping the concept around which the AT is based, however.. that is fail. Not to mention a violation of the cottage rule on a huge scale.|
Originally Posted by Visthera
Its why I said a different philosophy in that the whole shape shifting AT idea is fail (save for maybe lightform, which seems like an unstoppable power from Invulnerability power set)
|
It seems like you don't really know that much about these ATs.
To be clear, I am not saying these ATs are perfect, but neither are they unplayable, fail, or whatever label you might care to use. Provided the player builds and plays them for what they are instead of trying to shoehorn them into a role they don't fit, they work very nicely. Warshades in particular can dominate the battlefield and that's before any signifcant IOs go in. After IOs, well, see Dechs' guide.
PBs do need more help, but even so I think claiming that the shapeshifting mechanic needs to be thrown out is not only an extreme reaction but a nonsensical one. While I respect those who play human-only builds and have one myself, I think most would agree that the shapeshifting mechanic is what makes Kheldians unique and different. The solution is to fix and improve it, not remove it.
Iscariot's Guide to the Tri-Form Warshade, version 2.1
I'm sorry that math > your paranoid delusions, but them's the breaks -- Nethergoat
P.E.R.C. Rep for Liberty server
I love the Shape Shifting...I'd love it even more if the animation was reduced and it was made uninterruptable. I really hope that happens. (*Hey poison got revamped, Doms got revamped, we can dream...).
Also, some love to how the UI for Shapeshifting would be nice. Right now it takes a considerable amount of effort (i.e. making binds or macros) to really take advantage of it. It would be nice if some sort of default UI existed that switched trays and powers for you. I was lost on my Kheld, until I read some forum posts.
Most people aren't going to do all that work. They will shapeshift and wonder where all their powers went and then become frustrated.
If there was some kind of default tray set-up; it might help those new to Khelds some.
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
Quote:
No guide is going to be the be-all, end-all. It's going to reflect that poster's interests and approach, though if they did a decent job, it should reflect a variety of approaches at least. I tried to do that with my Fiery Aura and Tanking guide, but it still reflects some of my own preferences.|
Originally Posted by Zenithalia
No offense, but I read your guide, and while I appreciate the time you took to make it, it certainly is not an end-all to the warshade.
There are obviously different levels of fun with the warshade, the first level being the tri-form. The next level of fun, and really feeling epic, can only be found in a human only warshade. The varying degrees of those two levels of fun depend on your IOs and slots. So when I say seriously IO'd, I meant it. |
I don't agree with Dechs in everything he does or says, but I like that he is so enthusiastic about Warshades. That's good for all Kheldian players, even if I'm not all that excited about Warshades.
I hope you can also see that you have opinions in that post that I would take umbrage with. Besides the tone, human form isn't necessarily all that. Some prefer one way, some another. There are pros and cons to each.
For me, I added a human only build to my Peacebringer once Clarion made that more viable, and I wanted to see how I could make things work there, since his main build is tri-form. I find both to be fun (and enjoy all three forms on the main, depending on what I feel like at the time, and what my team needs).
To the OP, I doubt the devs would ever want to get rid of the shapeshifting mechanic, and I would be irate if they tried. Shapeshifting is a major part of what makes the Kheldian AT what it is. That mechanic could be tweaked to be better (it's too long to shift), but getting rid of it would be a terrible idea. Getting rid of it would make for an entirely new AT, and we have plenty of those to choose from already. You can argue for a new AT if you want, but don't do so at the expense of a current one.
Oh, and I played my Peacebringer before the I11 changes, on SOs. It is doable. I played one when they first came out and soloed on it, even though there were significant nerfs to do so at the time.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Kheldians are unpopular. When most play one, they do not feel epic. It often feels and plays weaker then the characters they started with before they opened up this archetype.
After some thought and playing a kheldian for a long while, I have come to some radical ideas that might make this Archetype epic fun, instead of epic work.
This might be heretic for some, including myself, as I love the whole tri-form kheldian of mine, but it may be time for a whole new philosophy to take place.
1. While shape-changing can be fun, as a function and mechanic, it just not working out. The animations take too long and shifting to either nova or dwarf locks out everything else the character can do. If we just drop those two forms all together, we can focus on balancing out our human (or humanoid) powers.
2. Absorption/Incandescnce - Largely ignored and never slotted power that every kheldian is force to take at level one. With the above idea (#1), perhaps we can make this power useful. With the dwarf form gone, we could make this into the kheldian mez resist power.
As stretched as power slotting for this archetype can be, at least it would give this power a use and function without the other powers needing to be remade or redone completely.
3. With the form switching gone (the forms that are focus on range damage - nova and damage resist/protections - dwarf ), the damage resist shield powers and damaging powers can finally get the boost they need by upping the power values to balance out the loss of those two forms.
It is my belief, with these changes, this archetype could finally deserve its title Heroic Epic Archetype.